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mdk
Oud Admirer
Posts: 2
Registered: 5-6-2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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Palmrami
Has anyone dealt with the ebay seller Palmrami? I was looking at their ouds - sukari- but have no idea if their prices are fair or if they deliver as
promised. Thanks!
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sawafeery
Oud Admirer
Posts: 3
Registered: 5-8-2008
Location: san francisco
Member Is Offline
Mood: mashil7al
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I just recieved one that i bought from them. it's terrible as far as i could tell. i'm a begginer so i wasn't expecting a professional quality oud but
this one was really bad. they say they sell khalife ouds, now i think these are supposed to be good Syrian ouds (can anyone confirm?) but i think
they're fakes.
the experts on this site, please check this seller on ebay and tell the rest of us wheather Palmarami ouds are any good.
sawafeery.
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SamirCanada
Moderator
Posts: 3404
Registered: 6-4-2004
Member Is Offline
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khalifeh ouds are known to be the worst ouds out there.
he may say what he wants about them etc...
thats why anyone who wants advice on ouds should ask here first.
sorry to hear about this sawafeery.
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Orahim1
Oud Maniac
Posts: 98
Registered: 2-7-2004
Location: California, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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While I cannot speak upon his ouds, I did buy an oud case from him and it took months, and many, many emails before it arrived. I would look elsewhere
for an oud.
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MatthewW
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1031
Registered: 11-5-2006
Location: right here
Member Is Offline
Mood: Al Salam
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MDK check out this thread:
http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=7406#pid464...
NOTE- UPDATE AUG 2008- Palmrami has changed their name to epalmra, still on ebay.
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Lamma Anakhu
Oud Lover
Posts: 11
Registered: 5-2-2008
Location: California
Member Is Offline
Mood: Saba - صبا
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I can tell you that things haven't changed much with his practices as covered by the linked thread that MatthewW posted.
I recently ordered a Sukkar hard shell case and had to wait about 10 days to receive, which isn't so bad, but it would be nice to have something in
writing, like a tracking number.
I've order Iraqi Khashshaba drums from him in the past, and it is the same story.
Delivery basically happens, but don't expect anyone to tell when the item has shipped or when it will arrive. It is a bit nerve racking, but for some
things...he's the only guy around.
Palmrami also sells the same model items at varying prices, so if you wait and watch, you can save yourself a lot of money.
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francis
Oud Junkie
Posts: 428
Registered: 4-8-2008
Location: Saintes , France
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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Another comment, but in the same way.
I ordered a hard case. I had to wait more than a month untill i receive.
The case was broken ( middle of the bowl, broken like an egg shell ). I send a mail.
They promise to post in the time material to repair..........a month ago...
I don't like to write negative opinion about someone, and I don't use to do this..
But this man doesn't respect himself and others....we are just money purveyors....
So.....here is a real address to lost time and money.....
It must be said.
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Amer
Oud Maniac
Posts: 85
Registered: 2-27-2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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I've dealt with palmyrami before and honestly, I do not recommend anyone to buy from him..
I ordered a hard case shell from him for my oud.. The case was terribley damaged, fragmented (there are actually some holes in the outer shell, you
can see the material inside), and it was also scratched all over!! two of the locks on the side were broken :s
My say: This guy sells garbage for money..
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jaron
Oud Maniac
Posts: 84
Registered: 6-14-2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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so I decided what I really wanted to find was a Sukar oud that was better than the one I already had, which has deep problems
i bought a new model 14 from the only source I am aware of in the USA, palmyrami on ebay
after I sent him money, ebay sent me a note saying, wait, don't pay him, he is engaging in a fraud, but we cannot tell you what it is, because we need
to protect his privacy
but it was too late, i had already sent money
all of palmyrami's listings were suddenly removed from ebay- a shame because he just got a new batch of instruments in
so i tried to reach paypal to ask for a refund, but they put me on hold on a non-free number for 20 minutes- i presume that at some point i'll get a
refund somehow, since ebay owns paypal
i realize a lot of people have had bad experiences with this guy, but others, even on this forum, have had good experiences- i want to give him the
benefit of the doubt
i have a bunch of emails for the guy, but haven't been able to reach him since this happened
anyone know him personally?
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SamirCanada
Moderator
Posts: 3404
Registered: 6-4-2004
Member Is Offline
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it happened to me when I ordered from him that all his listings dissapeared from ebay.
he had been locked out on fraud suspicions.
well I bombarded his email account. no awnser.
I eventualy found out where his warehouse is which is in royaloak michigan. After I informed him of this he eventualy replied and told me that the oud
was on its way and that he had been temporarely baned from ebay.
I got the oud in one peice and in a fast enough delivery time.
just keep on him.
all the best.
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jaron
Oud Maniac
Posts: 84
Registered: 6-14-2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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Thanks much, Samir. I also tracked down the physical address of his business. He is Ed at this place:
Royal Oak Storage
313 East Hudson Avenue
RoyalOak, MI 48067
Diane White , Manager
Phone Number:
(248) 591-6580
ed@royaloakrecycling.com
http://www.royaloakstorage.com
What would be nice is to know if anyone knows him in person. I think it's great that he's importing Sukar ouds at his own risk. I want to support
him in doing that. My sense is that he isn't a bad guy- maybe just someone who is in over his head in dealing with the realities of online business.
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francis
Oud Junkie
Posts: 428
Registered: 4-8-2008
Location: Saintes , France
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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I ordered a hard case a few month ago .....
I received it broken....
I asked for some materiel to repair ( read up next message ).....
I'm waiting......since two months.....
Today, I can't put my oud in a hard case....
I'm not sure he isn't a bad guy.....and if he isn't able to deal with the realities of online business, he doesn't deal....There is no excuse for such
a attitude!
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rambam
Oud Admirer
Posts: 2
Registered: 7-5-2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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Hi all, If needed here is the link to his site:
http://www.palmyrami.com/
I have purchased a Sukar from him in the past and it was
not exactly a pleasant transaction.
I don't want to slander his reputation...just telling it like
it is.
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Butrous
Oud Maniac
Posts: 60
Registered: 12-23-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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I have been trying to do business with these people for about a year. It has been very frustrating and at times very confusing.
It is not clear who is in charge. The first time I asked them they said their names were: Samer and Mahmoud Suker.
When I addressed an email to: Samer and Mahmoud, they wanted to know how I got their names.
Later I was given another name: Ed H. Mamou.
I do not know who is in charge. Sometimes they act as if they do not know either. The Royal Oak paper recycling company is next to but separate from
the storage company. A phone call was pleasant but produced no results. Apparently Palmyrami is an ebay business. They might be just using space at
the storage company.
They know nothing about their products. If they do they are doing a great job of concealing any knowledge they have.
It is my understanding that the items are packed in Syria. They are not opened in Michigan. This is confirmed by the fact that the shipping boxes have
Syrian stamps. They use generic or previously used photos for the musical instruments.
They often misstate the discription or use a photo that partially matches the description or does not match the description at all. They do not know
whether an oud has ebony pegs or not. The transhipper, Royal Oak, has never seen the oud and probably would not know a painted black peg from an ebony
peg.
They do not know who makes their percussion instruments. Some are complete junk especially the ones with a white rim. The white rim is plastic. These
drums are unplayable. I tried to settle for credit but instead just shipped them back just to get them out of the house. They never acknowledged
receipt.
Bought an "old" oud. It arrived damaged. They said I could get credit or get another "old" oud in exchange. I opted for an exchange. They said they
would receive more old ouds in a month. After getting the same answer 5 times over 5 months. I asked for credit. Received a Suker case in partial
exchange without incident. The next week 3 "old" ouds appear on ebay at inflated starting prices. The so-called "old", "antique" ouds I think are fake
or as they say in the trade "antiqued"; junk that has been glued together or stuff made to look like it shows signs of use, wear, or age.
I have tried to give whoever I have been trying to deal with the benefit of the doubt but it has tried by patience. I agree that they are making a
effort but are overwhelmed or just do not understand accepted business practices. I have not spent much money with them but wanted to try them out a
few times before a bought a more expensive Suker.
I know Ibrahim Suker and visited him in his office and shop in Aleppo years ago and have previously owned Suker ouds. He is a very nice person he has
been very helpful to me on my visits to Aleppo.
It is a shame he does not have a more straight forward knowledgeable "agent" in the America since Mr. Suker is definately a "straight arrow" in my
book but he could be overwhelmed as well.
Jeff Bazos was right, book selling is the best internet business model. Just make sure you ship out the correct ISBN number, everything else requires
knowledge.
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Cooper
Oud Maniac
Posts: 64
Registered: 10-19-2006
Location: 0
Member Is Offline
Mood: 0
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I am currently going back and forth with this guy right now. I bought a Sukar qanun a month ago from him and it came damaged (it also was not packed
very well). I sent it back to him and he promised to give me a new one, only to send the same one back (in the new box I packed it in). I shipped it
back to him yet again and he claimed to have already sent another one only for it to be the same tracking number of what I had just sent back to him
(WTF?).
So, my advice now is do not deal with this guy. We may have to file action against this guy on e-bay if he does not refund our money (qanuns are not
cheep).
Just a warning (someone warned me not too long ago, but we had already purchased this by then).
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Cooper
Oud Maniac
Posts: 64
Registered: 10-19-2006
Location: 0
Member Is Offline
Mood: 0
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WOW! I am kind of impressed. I just got my Sukar qanun yesterday and it was not the same damaged qanun that was sent to me twice!!! Maybe this guy was
not messing with me. Now if he gives me the refund he promised me, I might be happy with this transaction!
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Alan-TX
Oud Junkie
Posts: 118
Registered: 2-18-2008
Member Is Offline
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I just got my Sukar oud yesterday from palmyrami.
http://www.palmyrami.com/index.php?productID=528
My transaction went without incident and I am satisfied. I had to ask for a tracking number but they did give me one. I ordered it on 7-1 and it
arrived 7-7.
The Oud appears to be a great beginner oud. Granted this is the first Oud I have ever seen in the flesh but based off my guitar playing experience it
has decent action and no string buzzing. I am sure many beginners have had much worse to start with.
It seems as the oud was packaged in Syria and never opened state side. There was sawdust in the case and inside the oud...
The case is not that great. It’s functional but the padding seems too thin as is the shell. But for around town travel it will do. Much better than
no case at all.
I got this model off of ebay for a better price than quoted in the link even with shipping added in. So if you do order from palmyrami keep your eye
out for a good deal on eBay as their prices fluctuate.
I sent email to palmyrami@gmail.com and let them know to come and read this thread. Over 1k hits so this will impact their oud business.
And BTW thanks to all who post on the forums. It was here where I learned how to shop for an oud , what was good and what was bad. I will be using
these forums to learn how to play along with following OudProff’s Dvd.
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Cooper
Oud Maniac
Posts: 64
Registered: 10-19-2006
Location: 0
Member Is Offline
Mood: 0
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I am glad you had a good experience with him. Sukar ouds are really good and it excited me to see someone selling Sukar's instruments here in
America.
Unfortunately my experience is not going to well with Mr. Palmrami. I had asked for my money back after he sent the same damaged qanun twice. He said
that he was sending another qanun and if I liked it he would reimburse me $400 for the shipping costs.
Now it is looking like he is backing out on his deal and now that I have read all of these posts I realized I did not do enough research on this
seller before buying from him. This whole thing has been a headache and I feel he has not been honest with me this whole time. In fact the newer qanun
he sent me has some damage to it, but he does not seem to care.
With that being said, it is sad that such a great opportunity is ruined by this guy's bad busyness practices.
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charlie oud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 694
Registered: 11-19-2007
Location: Newcastle upon tyne. UK
Member Is Offline
Mood: chords prefer frets
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Welcome to the Sukar club Alan. Mine is a fantastic. Enjoy yours. http://www.arabicouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=7633#pid4... and http://www.arabicouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=7631#pid4... She sounds and plays very well, loud ,deep & warm with a classic arabic tone.I bought mine privately so cannot comment on models supplied by
Palmrami but Sukar makes a wide range of models from cheap to expensive. Regards. C
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Melbourne
Oud Junkie
Posts: 354
Registered: 10-9-2006
Location: Mlebourne, Australia
Member Is Offline
Mood: راحة الأرواح
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Christ ! - what in the world is this??
Apparently a professional Lebanese "out" 
http://www.palmyrami.com/index.php?productID=547
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francis
Oud Junkie
Posts: 428
Registered: 4-8-2008
Location: Saintes , France
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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Happy for you guys to have good deals.....
I'm going on waiting material to repair my "hardbrockencase"....not even an answer by mail....
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Cooper
Oud Maniac
Posts: 64
Registered: 10-19-2006
Location: 0
Member Is Offline
Mood: 0
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Well, this guy promised to pay for the shipping of the damaged instrument I sent back to him (twice, in fact) and he has not yet. Well, at least I
have the new one.
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jaron
Oud Maniac
Posts: 84
Registered: 6-14-2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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The Sukar 14 arrived on time, perfectly packed, and undamaged. The eBay listing promised an extra set of pegs and there is only one set, and it isn't
the same set shown in the photos, but other than that, palmyrami came through this time.
Meanwhile, an astounding Nahat/Merjanian oud came into my life while I was waiting for the Sukar, so I'm afraid the Sukar might be neglected for a
while.
The Sukar is very well made - perfect low action, incredibly long sustain, good pegs (whether they are the original ones or not), lovely finger
board, etc. but not much tone or resonance as yet. Either I got a dud or it will take a while to wake up. I haven't dealt with a brand new oud
before. Maybe this is normal.
I was thinking it might be worth writing a nice note to the palmyrami guys suggesting that they should become engaged on this board in order to learn
a little more about what they are selling and avoid conflicts or mistakes before they can happen- but maybe it's a fool's game to try to suggest
improvements to someone else's business.
If they could resolve the problems of the five or six people they've left hanging here, they could start on a new leaf, perhaps.
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jaron
Oud Maniac
Posts: 84
Registered: 6-14-2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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Update on the Sukar 14- I played it for a while and the sound and resonance opened up as if by magic, so this instrument is no dud.
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Cooper
Oud Maniac
Posts: 64
Registered: 10-19-2006
Location: 0
Member Is Offline
Mood: 0
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That is really cool about the Sukar oud, I can not wait to see the pictures! I got sold on Sukar recently when a friend of mine bought one that had
been refurbished (it had three cracks on the face board). I am not sure what model is was, but the action was smooth (unlike my refurbished Turkish
oud that has too high of action).
That would be nice if Palmrami could be more reliable. It has been a bit frustrating dealing with him, but in the end, I am really happy with this
Sukar qanun. I do not think a professional player would be satisfied completely with this model (since those professional models are a few thousand),
but for someone like me who's main instrument is not the qanun, I like it a lot. 
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