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jaron
Oud Maniac
Posts: 84
Registered: 6-14-2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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so here's an bizarre thing
one of the strings on the Sukar oud wasn't so great- not a big problem- just needed to replace the string
an oddity with the way the oud was set up was that the high courses were attached to the most distant pegs, while the lower, wound courses were
attached to the closest pegs- the reverse of the usual way
I decided re-assign strings to pegs to be more conventional- and I discovered that the string lengths were measured precisely - the wound strings
aren't long enough to reach the far pegs!
that would explain the weird stringing arrangement
someone decided to make the more expensive strings shorter to save a few fractions of pennies
or at least that's the only explanation i can come up with
it seems unlikely that anyone at Sukar would do this, so maybe palmyrami did it?
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jaron
Oud Maniac
Posts: 84
Registered: 6-14-2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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i put new strings on the sukar- from hank levin/musicaravan - they aren't quite a match for the tuning, but WOW, the sukar is now 100 times better- it
is actually amazing- what a fantastic oud builder, and what a bargain price for such an instrument-
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Samer
Oud Maniac
Posts: 58
Registered: 7-14-2008
Location: MI
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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Dear All,
We are very glad to be here and read your comments about our business.
It seems like few of you, did not have a pleasant experience with our business.
We are really not a bad people, we were just new to this business and we had some difficulties running an online business, it's not easy as you may
think for many reasons:
1- As you know, all ouds that we sell are fully handmade and subject to Human being's errors. They are not machine made and can't be identical nor
perfect.
Neither Kalifa nor Sukkar is a factory, it's just a small workshop, therefore the quality and finishing of the ouds are various.
We work hard to select the best of their ouds, and we wait for nearly 6 months to get our orders. Ouds production is slow and limited and cannot be %
100 accurate.
2- Another reason that is really effecting us is the lead time of shipping, it takes nearly 3 to 4 months for these ouds to get to MI. It is a long
distance trip with many stops on the way and especially the final stop at customs.
3- We do our best in answering emails within 24 hours, even though, we had some problems in our email in the past and many emails got deleleted by
mistake. It was hard luck that we hired a wrong guy that was handling emails in the past and causing all problems.
4- Some buyers decide to buy low price ouds or drums such as Kalifa ouds or Sheep drums that sell for $20 ! , and they expect to get pro concert oud
or drum. Let's be reasonable, when you buy an oud for $150, you should not expect too much !!, we do sell low price ouds for those players who are
looking to have some fun or just get started learning playing ouds.
5- It seems like most of the problems are coming from Sukkar case. I ,somehow, agree that the case is not the best quality nor finishing. But it's the
best case in the Syrian market, I personally had a meeting with Mr. Sukkar and complained about the cases, Now he is working on making new cases with
much higher quality. We should be selling them within the next 6 months. Anyhow, cases that we have in stock now are much better quality and
finishing.
Lately, we have made major changes in our system to improve customers service and ensure great satisfaction. We hired a new team to answer emails
properlly and to effectivelly deal with customers requests. We are doing a much better packing and handlling, and try to do shipping in the same day
that we receive the payment.
For overseas buyers it's a different case, postage is very slow and not trackable. We really have no control over it. We advise buyers that are in a
rush to contact us and pay extra for faster shipping services.
We hope we can get to the point of having %100 customers satisfaction and Palmyrami will be the store for all ouds' players.We promiss all our
customers that all of you will see a major improvement in our business. If you go over our feedback on ebay, you will notice that we are improoving
quickly.
Furthuremore, We have being working with Mr. Sukkar for more than 2 years and we just became his Sole agent in North America and Europe. We are also
working with other famous oud makers to be their sole agent in the US.
We appreciate Art and we enjoy selling ouds and drums for reasonable prices because our main goal is to help introducing the eastern art and music in
the west and to the western people
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Butrous
Oud Maniac
Posts: 60
Registered: 12-23-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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Dear Samer,
Thank you for responding to all of our issues. It is important for us to know that you care about your customers and are trying to improve your
business organization and systems.
I personally wish you the best of luck and and hope to be doing more business with you in the future.
Truly,
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francis
Oud Junkie
Posts: 428
Registered: 4-8-2008
Location: Saintes , France
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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Samer.
I'm happy to read your answer to this topic.
I know I told hard words about Palmirani in this forum, and I specified why ( for memory: I ordered a hardcase, I received it broken, I ask you for
materiel to repair ( because I thought it's easier than shipping back, even if I has work to do on a payed product) , you agreed with this and thank
me for, and I never received materiel, and no answer to my mails ....)
Your answer, here, seems to tell you want to access to a respectable business, and I read this with pleasure and interest....
But , this day.......no case to bring my oud....I ordered you six or seven months ago.
I wish you have a good business....and I have a hardcase....
Good luck for each!
Francis
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Samer
Oud Maniac
Posts: 58
Registered: 7-14-2008
Location: MI
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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Thanks for your wishes butrous, I was just wondering you ordered from us ? do you have any pending problem ? if so what is it ? I will solve it right
away.
Also Francis, What are the materielsl needed ? Can you email me to palmyrami@gmail.com ? if you are in the US I will mail you a new case right away.
Please feel free to contact me if you have any problem with palmyrami
Thanks,
Samer.
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Samer
Oud Maniac
Posts: 58
Registered: 7-14-2008
Location: MI
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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| Quote: | Originally posted by jaron
so here's an bizarre thing
one of the strings on the Sukar oud wasn't so great- not a big problem- just needed to replace the string
an oddity with the way the oud was set up was that the high courses were attached to the most distant pegs, while the lower, wound courses were
attached to the closest pegs- the reverse of the usual way
I decided re-assign strings to pegs to be more conventional- and I discovered that the string lengths were measured precisely - the wound strings
aren't long enough to reach the far pegs!
that would explain the weird stringing arrangement
someone decided to make the more expensive strings shorter to save a few fractions of pennies
or at least that's the only explanation i can come up with
it seems unlikely that anyone at Sukar would do this, so maybe palmyrami did it? |
Dear Jaron ? Why do you think I changed your string ? this is not a fair comment at all ? I would never change the strings. You can contact M.R Sukar
to ask him.
Thanks,
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Melbourne
Oud Junkie
Posts: 354
Registered: 10-9-2006
Location: Mlebourne, Australia
Member Is Offline
Mood: راحة الأرواح
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Samer
I have had no time to read any of your comments or responses to them - I will eventually, but I am glad that there is at least now some correspondence
with "palmyrami". There is a great demand for sukar ouds, and the fact that there is now a "western" contact for these instruments is a positive
thing. Buy contributing to these forums, you are really dealing with high critique, becuase here amongst the finest luthiers and oud virtuosos
exchange and share knowledge. I hope you cant realise what this means and am sure many would look forward to purchaisng "fine" skuar instruments.
regards;
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jaron
Oud Maniac
Posts: 84
Registered: 6-14-2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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Hi Samer,
I think you'll be very happy that you've made contact with the oud community on these forums.
As for the strings- there are a number of explanations, and as I said, I have no idea. Maybe some kid working in the Sukar shop was told to put
strings on it before it shipped and thought he was being innovative.
What is great is that now that you are responding to questions here, I can talk to you about something like this, and it can be friendly.
When I wrote the speculation about why the strings were short, you hadn't yet posted. I'm afraid that it's a little to easy to say something about
someone when they aren't in the room.
So, my apologies for that.
-jaron
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Cooper
Oud Maniac
Posts: 64
Registered: 10-19-2006
Location: 0
Member Is Offline
Mood: 0
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Well, I have my Sukar qanun that I bought from you. You reimbursed me for the shipping of the damaged qanun I had to send back to you, so I am happy
(thank you!).
I am also happy that you are taking the time to join this forum and address these issues.
Cheers,
Dustin
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francis
Oud Junkie
Posts: 428
Registered: 4-8-2008
Location: Saintes , France
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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Well, I just sent you a mail .
I wish the fact you join this great forum brings good issues to problems...It would be nice for each one...
Waiting for your answer.....and a being of use hardcase.
francis
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Butrous
Oud Maniac
Posts: 60
Registered: 12-23-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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Jaron,
In Aleppo the high, most treble string, is F. It is strung to the furtherist pegs. Why?
Before the high F was introduced, C was the highest treble string. Inorder not to disrupt the previously common string arrangement of the pegs the
stringing location of the C, G, D, A, and F stayed the same, the bass C was eliminated so the only vacant pegs for the treble F were the furtherist
pegs where the bass C was located even though the location of the treble F on the bridge and nut was next to the treble C. (Note Bene: Before the
single course bass C was used the bass C was a double course hence 12 pegs on some ouds.)
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nouphar
Oud Maniac
Posts: 96
Registered: 3-28-2007
Location: Spain
Member Is Offline
Mood: No mood
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Hi Boutrous, I like your explanation.
What is the sense of having ouds being tuned GADGCF or DGADGC? In the first case one might miss the great sounding low D string, and in the second
case the high F course is really useful. Does any of those patterns fit better any maqam or repertoire? I wonder the same for ouds having a very low A
or G string (below 6th E guitar string).
In my opinion (I guess this issue is just a matter of preference), a superb string arrangement would be, from low to high, A D GG AA DD GG CC FF (14
strings)...
Regards.
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jaron
Oud Maniac
Posts: 84
Registered: 6-14-2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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Thanks so much for this information.
The Sukar ouds seem to excel in the bass, so I am currently tuned to CFADGC because of that amazing low C. How could anyone give it up?
(I should say that in the case of my oud, it wasn't just the one high course that was attached to the farthest pegs- all the wound strings went to the
nearest pegs, and all the un-wound strings went to the farthest. There were three unwound courses.)
There have been some other threads about the best choices for strings for a Sukar oud- and I would suggest that Sukar players try the Musicaravan
strings from Hank Levin.
If I could make one request of Mr, Sukar, it would be for a better nut, maybe made of bone.
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Christian1095
Oud Junkie
Posts: 454
Registered: 4-29-2008
Location: North Carolina, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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I ordered an Oud from Palmyrami today. I'll post my experiance.
Chris Walters
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Christian1095
Oud Junkie
Posts: 454
Registered: 4-29-2008
Location: North Carolina, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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Received it from DHL this morning... I asked them to overnight it because I believe it increases the chances of the instrument arriving safely.
Also, the time lag of a waiting for something I really want in the mail causes enough anxiety that I prefer to pay more in shipping than to spend
three day worrying abuot it... Of course your milage may vary... Also, I'm playing this weekend and I wanted to have a backup in case I broke a
string or something.
Communication was not a problem. They were quick to get back to me and answered my questions. The central one being... If this gets broken in the
mail, will you refund my money or replace the instrument? They assured me they would and I figured that in a worse case senario, it would allow me to
initiate a chargeback with my CC company if they didn't live up to thier promise... But, obviously it wasn't a problem.
Shipping was same day. I read above they try to do this anyway, but I asked them to overnight it so I could have it today. So they may have
expedited things. I asked for a tracking number and it was provided... To give a timeline, I paid for it around 10:30 and had a DHL tracking number
before 4:00...
Packaging was very well done. Just like when I bought my other Sukar from SamirCanada, it looked like a mummy in all it's foam wrap and strapping
tape. They did a really good job padding the neck of the Oud in it's case (for those of you who have a case by Mr Sukar, it sort of looks like a
duck.... and there is a big open space between the body and the neck) The box was of thick cardboard.... Not SUPER thick, but also not flimsy
either... The box was very well taped.
My oud was also strung kind of funky... but no worries because the first thing I did was to change the strings so it wasn't an issue for me.
So, that was my experiance. They were fast, did a good job with the packing, and thier communication with me was fast and positive. I realize that
Trust is earned one transaction at a time... but you gotta start somewhere. Hopefully the experiances Jaron and I have had will be the first in many.
Chris Walters
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francis
Oud Junkie
Posts: 428
Registered: 4-8-2008
Location: Saintes , France
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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Christian, you must be one of those which stay in the good place at the good time....
I'm happy it's ok for you....
I paid 130 dollars a few month ago.....And I'm stiil waiting and bringing my oud under my arm!
After Samer's post in this forum, I thought a solution is possible.....
He answered me here by a question ( I described the problem 10 or15 times before by mails!!!! ) and nothing new......
But I can read I have a new case right away if I'm in the US....no problem, I'm in France: I didn't move out since I ordered and paid!!!
That's why, for me ,it's hard to take doubt away.......( my money is away, for sure!!!)
Nevertheless,for playing it's better to have the oud than the case....
 ....... .......
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Melbourne
Oud Junkie
Posts: 354
Registered: 10-9-2006
Location: Mlebourne, Australia
Member Is Offline
Mood: راحة الأرواح
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Congrats Christian
Which model did you order? Do post some pics when yuo get the chance  . I'm
beginning to think seriously about a sukar now for my next instrument, I guess thorugh Palmyramy as things seem to be shaping up for them...
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Samer
Oud Maniac
Posts: 58
Registered: 7-14-2008
Location: MI
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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Dear All,
I’m glad things are improving, there should not be any problem with any of you from now on . We learned our lesson ( packing, choosing quality
ouds, shipping with the right company,etc)
I just got some old ouds, very high quality and %100 Authentic. I hired an expert to test the ouds and make sure they are not fake !
makers are ( Nahat, Badrosian, Safi,etc)
We had such a hard time collecting these ouds since most ouds in the market are fake !
I will post pictures of the oud shortly.
Regards,
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charlie oud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 694
Registered: 11-19-2007
Location: Newcastle upon tyne. UK
Member Is Offline
Mood: chords prefer frets
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Hey Chris, What about the oud itself, do you like it? . VERY happy with my Sukar. C
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francis
Oud Junkie
Posts: 428
Registered: 4-8-2008
Location: Saintes , France
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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Bonjour.
I think we find a solution with Samer. He answered to my mail an propose me to send a new hardcase and materials to repair the broken one, for the
shipping price.
I'm right with this.
Now I'm waiting for the case to come.....
Francis.
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Christian1095
Oud Junkie
Posts: 454
Registered: 4-29-2008
Location: North Carolina, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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Yeah, the oud itself is really nice... If you're expecting a concert quality isntrument, then the Model 1 really isnt' for you... But it's solid and
sounds nice.
The pegs are nice... not perfect, but with a little bit of peg dope, they don't have any problem staying in tune...
I raised the action slightly last night because I was getting a little string buzz... really just a minor adjustment....
I would recommend this oud to anyone starting out... it's only $400 and is light years beyond anything available within the US for that price. It
will take a lot to outgrow the instrument... whereas I was looking to replace my Amazon.com oud within a week.
Chris Walters
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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1865
Registered: 7-25-2009
Location: San Francisco, California
Member Is Offline
Mood: m'Oudy
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I'm sorry, but you just showed up here, first posting, and you come up with such a generality, and with that spam "ordinateur pas cher" in your msg as
well? Can you be more specific as to what you got? Even the mediocre oud I got from them matched the photo down to the grain of the soundboard. When
did this happen to you?
If you got something you didn't like, did you ask them to take it back, and/or (it's the moment to push) give you a good deal on something else, like
a Sukar? That's what I did and they sold me a model 1 for a price that made the Sukar and the mediocre oud come out to less than the best price I've
ever heard of on a Sukar alone. They seem eager to please these days.
At this point I personally wouldn't buy anything but Sukars from them, as they don't really know what's in the sealed box. The Sukar I chose and that
they sent me matched its photo down to the individual staves' wood grain too. I've heard that other Sukar buyers have also been given a chance to pick
the one they wanted from several photos. It's like each box they get from Syria has a set of photos. Maybe when they have multiple units, the photo
might sometimes get mixed up for a different one?
Anyway, it would help to be more specific as to what happened in your case, and when, rather than just post such generalities. We're trying to be fair
and form an objective impression of whether it's safe to buy e.g. Sukars from them these days, as there are only two simple sources for Sukars, and
they have the better prices. Everybody of late seems happy with their Palmyrami Sukar.
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Christian1095
Oud Junkie
Posts: 454
Registered: 4-29-2008
Location: North Carolina, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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I think that's just a spammer....not a real person...
Chris Walters
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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1865
Registered: 7-25-2009
Location: San Francisco, California
Member Is Offline
Mood: m'Oudy
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Spammers are real people too. They have feelings and they have spamette wives and little baby spammers that they have to feed. And now and then you
have to try to explain things to them. WHAT AM I TALKING ABOUT??? 
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Greg
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