comthre3
Oud Lover
Posts: 21
Registered: 6-2-2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Oud neck problem
Hi, i've got a 1997 Salmeen Kuwaiti Oud, beautiful sound and all, but in the past couple of months i noticed a slight increase in the hight of the
strings, its really noticeable, its affecting my playing too, i cant be as fast as i used to before simply because i have to press harder resulting in
the loss of some tunes, so is there a way to fix that me being in montreal and all? i think ill be heading back home by next Christmas or something,
and i really cant wait that long, does anyone know of a good oudsman that would help me solve this conundrum?
please see attached photo of the problem mentioned above.
Regards
Ahmed.
(graphic resized to 800 pixels wide by moderator)
\"Dubito, Ergo cogito, Ergo sum\" René Descartes
|
|
|
SamirCanada
Moderator
Posts: 3404
Registered: 6-4-2004
Member Is Offline
|
|
I am in Ottawa and sometimes I go to montreal.
I repair ouds from time to time and I have repaired this kind of problem.
send me an email at
samir_nassif@hotmail.com
|
|
|
Amer
Oud Maniac
Posts: 85
Registered: 2-27-2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
I've had this problem in my first oud, I understand how frustrating it could get..
My question is: what would make the strings "become" too high?!
I thought my first oud was poorly made, and that the problem existed because of the oud maker..
If this problem can "develop", even on better quality ouds, how can it be prevented?
How is this fixed?
Just need to add up a little more to my knowledge guys, 
|
|
|
dubai244
Oud Junkie
Posts: 490
Registered: 3-8-2004
Location: Dubai, UAE
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Hi Ahmed,
Is your oud has floating bridge "Saheb Aali" ör " Faras motahrik"? or fixed bridge? because that's make huge different.
If you have Floating bridge, basiclly, you can reduce the hight of the floating bridge so the hight of the strings will reduce and you can ajdusted as
you like to suit you.
If you have Fix bridge, then either you have to change the bridge, which is easier and does not need so many works or you have to change the neck of
the oud which will cost you money and time and it might affect the oud.
As i can see from the pictures, i assumed you have too high bridge which leaded to high strings "high Action", so you have to reduce the bridge
hight.
having said that, keep on mind that the neck is start moving because of the strings pressure and the permenant solution will be changing the neck.
Thanks
|
|
|
comthre3
Oud Lover
Posts: 21
Registered: 6-2-2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Wow I'm baffled with these helpful responses. dubai244 thanks for your helpful. My oud has a fixed bridge. And from your response it seems like there
would be a simple solution. Now here's the question. Would you recommend a new floating bridge or should I just get a lower fixed one?
Thank you all for quick responses, hope to hear from you soon. I will email you brother samir first thing in the morning
Regards
\"Dubito, Ergo cogito, Ergo sum\" René Descartes
|
|
|
francis
Oud Junkie
Posts: 428
Registered: 4-8-2008
Location: Saintes , France
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Did you recently change the strings before the neck move?
May be the strings are now too strong for your oud, so it could be this result....
I ever had such problems on different stringed instrument, when trying new sets of strings.Possible that lighter strings could be better for your
oud's health.
|
|
|
comthre3
Oud Lover
Posts: 21
Registered: 6-2-2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Actually i did, but the neck issue was before that, so i dont think its a tension problem, I was wondering if its a good idea to have a floating
bridge to replace this one. ill post more pictures later of the bridge
thank you.
\"Dubito, Ergo cogito, Ergo sum\" René Descartes
|
|
|
SamirCanada
Moderator
Posts: 3404
Registered: 6-4-2004
Member Is Offline
|
|
If the joint inside the neck is weakened over time by the tension it will bend in this way.
It happens to some of the nicest ouds.
You cannot make a stuck on bridge into a floating bridge oud. The bracing under the face have to be changed in order to accommodate the new type of
strength which is downward pressure as opposed to horizontal torque.
If you make a new bridge ( you can also make new holes under the holes that are already there)
It will make the strings to low to play comfortably and you will be hitting the face of your oud with the risha a lot. Also making the strings lower
on a stuck on bridge will diminish the sound volume.
There is no escaping the truth... the neck must be angled back to have nice playing action.
the neck warp is a normal thing that can happen to many great ouds. The new joinery techniques that are used by modern luthiers are usually able to
withstand many years of use without any troubles.
|
|
|
Dr. Oud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1370
Registered: 12-18-2002
Location: Sacramento, CA, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: better than before
|
|
An effective alternative is to add a fingerboard on top of the original. 3-5mm thickness will raise the fingerboard and lower the string height. The
new fingerboard can be extended as far as the top edge of the sound hole without any adverse affect on the sound. It can be tapered down at the top
nut to lower the strings even more if necessary or in the future. The raising of the strings is common with all ouds, no matter what the quality. It
is simply the instrument reacting to the constant string tension. Some times the neck joint will loosen, but often it's just the body bending over
time.
|
|
|
comthre3
Oud Lover
Posts: 21
Registered: 6-2-2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
that has never crossed my mind, thank you both, first, i never thought that changing the bridge would lead to me hitting the face of the oud alot with
the risha, now that i think of it, that does make sense, and Dr. thank you for that marvelous advice, do you happen to know where i could purchase
such a nifty gadget? that fingerboard, I've never heard of such a thing to be honest, but it seems like the rational thing to do. since it wont affect
the structure of the oud.
Regards
Ahmed
\"Dubito, Ergo cogito, Ergo sum\" René Descartes
|
|
|
SamirCanada
Moderator
Posts: 3404
Registered: 6-4-2004
Member Is Offline
|
|
To see a Tapered fingerboard i will point you to my oud project on this link. Notice how the fingerboard is really thick at the sound hole and it
gets thiner at the nut.
http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=4814&pa...
Sorry... you cant buy these ''gadgets'' you have to make them for the oud.
The other way is to do a neck reset, It can be done this way as seen in my other project.
http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=6063
All the best
Samir
|
|
|
comthre3
Oud Lover
Posts: 21
Registered: 6-2-2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Thank you Samir, I've got my oud's neck fixed once before in Kuwait, Salmeen store, I think I need a fingerboard like the one you had for your first
project, did it change the sound at all? plus what kind of wood did you use for that by the way?
\"Dubito, Ergo cogito, Ergo sum\" René Descartes
|
|
|
SamirCanada
Moderator
Posts: 3404
Registered: 6-4-2004
Member Is Offline
|
|
The wood for the fingerboard is rosewood.
It shouldn't affect the sound like Dr.Oud said. Its not in an area where it affects the sound.
If there was a neck fix and it failed then I suggest to do another one. Because the oud is not that old it shouldn't need it already.
|
|
|
comthre3
Oud Lover
Posts: 21
Registered: 6-2-2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Thats why i need it looked at by a pro, so I dont know I might email you before I come up, cuz i think im comming up to Ottawa soon, is that ok with
you?
Regards
\"Dubito, Ergo cogito, Ergo sum\" René Descartes
|
|
|
SamirCanada
Moderator
Posts: 3404
Registered: 6-4-2004
Member Is Offline
|
|
Sure drop me an email.
I can take a look at it and let you what is the best solution.
|
|
|
comthre3
Oud Lover
Posts: 21
Registered: 6-2-2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
perfect, thanks bro
\"Dubito, Ergo cogito, Ergo sum\" René Descartes
|
|
|
abusin
Oud Junkie
Posts: 442
Registered: 3-23-2006
Location: Manchester England
Member Is Offline
Mood: Ya Fuadi La Tasal
|
|
Hi comthre3,
this is my Slmeen after a recent neck reset, done by a local guitar maker who installed a stiff carbon rod along the neck and a new fingerboard and
man what a transformation..
the action was so high you could run a thick pen through it, now its very low and comfortable to play.
Lucky you've got Samir here whom I witnessed his last project on this forum, best of luck
Awad
Before
|
|
|
comthre3
Oud Lover
Posts: 21
Registered: 6-2-2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Thank you for your comment Abusin, what kind of fingerboard did u install? Yeah I cant wait to get this oud fixed, its my only one here in montreal!,
back home i've got my real collection, well not real collection, but a collection :P (a crappy one for that matter, except for the fadhel)
can you post a picture of the fingerboard and the newly restored neck? I think I have the model after that one, ill post some pictures of my oud later
on,, probably after the Turkey/Portugal game, GO TURKEY!
Edit, Pictures of the oud as promised, and yes, i had it painted black after an accident a few years back!
Regars
Ahmed.
\"Dubito, Ergo cogito, Ergo sum\" René Descartes
|
|
|
nouphar
Oud Maniac
Posts: 96
Registered: 3-28-2007
Location: Spain
Member Is Offline
Mood: No mood
|
|
Hey Ahmed, I'm thankful to read this topic, since I've got the SAME problem you have. My oud is turkish, it sounds great, but with the passing of
months it has become UNPLAYABLE. The solution for Abusin's oud is simply fantastic in my opinion, I think ouds should have a truss rod inside, just
like guitars have...
I think that a good solution for my oud would be to put an ebony fingerboard on the previous one; another approach is to have it fixed at the
neckjoint.
And finally I'm most impressed to read that this problem can happen to any oud...
In my case the fixment must cost more than the price I paid for my oud.
Regards.
|
|
|
nouphar
Oud Maniac
Posts: 96
Registered: 3-28-2007
Location: Spain
Member Is Offline
Mood: No mood
|
|
By the way, which is the lightest string set for turkish ouds?
|
|
|
comthre3
Oud Lover
Posts: 21
Registered: 6-2-2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
I don't know right now I'm using labella I think. if i remember correctly tomastic makes light sets dont know if theyre the lightest tho
thank yiu for yiur post. Out of curiousity how much did the fix cost u?
Regards
\"Dubito, Ergo cogito, Ergo sum\" René Descartes
|
|
|
![[*]](images/xmbprobrown/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
