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carpenter
Oud Junkie
Posts: 248
Registered: 8-30-2005
Location: Eugene OR
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Mood: brimming with hope
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<< However, have you heard Blue Flame CD for Simon? >>
Oh, yes! I've had that CD for several years - play it a lot, I like it a lot. (Well, most of it.) I was reading this:
<< No one has the right to perform it in manners or with instruments that don't belong to its composer's era >>
... and that got my back up a little. I'll go back and re-read things, straighten myself out, maybe. Could be my hearing is too Western ...
I have to say, even Mozart was new and strange once. He composed for what was available to him at the time. Yes? Technology advances - think of modern
pianos vs pianofortes. (Am I headed for a soapbox and rant? Uh-oh.)
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Sherko Dakouri
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Dear Katakofta
Taking things from the West is not creating something new, it's simply imitation. Although we could benifit from certain things in Western music to a
certain extent. What I fear is that we lose our culture completly, as we are already on the way. I'm not against world fusion. However, I think it
should remain secondary in importance to the main traditions. Anyway, what the musicians you mentioned did remains controversial, and it may be
totally discarded someday. The only thing we can do is to wait and see. I'm not at all against creative interactions between cultures, but musicians
must know the limits and not let other cultures swallow their own culture.
Dear Carpenter
Not at all. I previously said that some Western instruments can be incorporated into Middle Eastern bands, and the violin is now a formal member of
the Arabic takht.
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katakofka
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Sherko Dakouri
...Anyway, what the musicians you mentioned did remains controversial, and it may be totally discarded someday...
"tol3it ya ma7la nurha" discarded someday? well, this song was a total inovation from sayeed darwish. At that time (1920s) music was based on Adwar
mainly. "Tol3it ya ma7la nurha" was composed in the mid 20s. When it will be discarded?? The song and the tradition of sayyed darwish remains till our
days.
Think also about " ya zahratan fi khayali" for Farid. This is a pure tango music. Is that song will be discarded too? I don't see that, in opposite,
it's a folklore now. |
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Sherko Dakouri
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Dear DaveH!
There in the Middle East, we are very backward people. Everything there sucks, including culture and music. The governments' sole preoccupation is to
steel money. Karl Marx once said: "They can't represent themselves, they have to be represented." Indeed, we don't know how to deal with our culture
and how to preserve it and make it flourish. In many instances we don't see its beauty, and we keep comparing it to the Western cultures and wanting
to standardise it according to Western norms.. I think that in Oriental traditions, recordings should take the place of notation, which should be
regarded only as a "necessary evil," as Habib Hassan Touma put it.
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katakofka
Oud Junkie
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Sherko Dakouri
There in the Middle East, we are very backward people. Everything there sucks, including culture and music.
The Decline of interest in classical musical traditions.Got my attention in the title. BUT..why do you want to preserve the middle east culture if you
consider middle eastern people backwarded, sucks in their culture and music?
Dear member, middle eastern music is florishing these days better than it was 50 years ago. Just check how many non middle eastern members belong to
this forum. |
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Sherko Dakouri
Oud Lover
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Katakofta,
The fact that Middle Eastern people are now backward doesn't mean that I should hate them or hate their culture.. On the contrary, it makes me more
determined to do something about this. It's really a joy to have non-Middle Easterners here, but this shouldn't make you turn a blind eye on the fact
that authentic classical music is almost dead in many parts of the Middle East.
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eliot
Oud Junkie
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Brian Prunka
Eliot, I'm interested in your assertion that the music business exists to sell advertising. Can you explain yourself? Obviously the radio industry
exists to sell advertising, as does the music press. But they sell a lot of advertising TO the record companies (although the radio stations don't
call it advertising). The record companies didn't really exist in modern form until Frank Sinatra showed them that you could make a significant amount
of money selling records, and they didn't really take off until Elvis showed you could make a LOT of money selling records. And who are we selling
most of those records to? Kids.
Touring has always been more lucrative than record sales for most artists (except those who wrote a lot of hit songs, because they got the publishing
$, which is why the Beatles didn't bother to tour after their first few LPs).
But the record companies made a lot of money from record sales (and from the aforementioned hit songs, of which they usually controlled 50% of the
publishing). I don't see how the record companies make any significant amount of money from advertising. Radio and television both exist to sell
advertising, sure, but that is irrespective of their content--talk radio exists to sell advertising, too. The music business and the advertising
business certainly have a symbiotic relationship, but they don't exist because of one another, as far as I can tell. |
The Beatles and Frank Sinatra are not the best example, since they are not paradigmatic for large pop acts. 1st: tours often lose money, as do
records, but merchandising (monogrammed underwear) and licensing songs to film, tv, and for ads is where the money is really made in the music
industry. Major record labels own publishing rights for works that they produce. It's that circled P symbol on CDs which symbolizes the vast earning
power of major labels, as it entitles the label to 50% (or more) of every post-release use of that recording for any purpose.
When I say that advertising is really the purview of record labels and popular music, it's in 3 facets that I make the assertion:
the use of music to sell radio advertising (and the odd yet symbiotic relationship between radio and record labels)
the use of music in ads to sell products (and the odd yet symbiotic relationship between musical acts and advertising firms)
the use of recorded cds, tours, and promotion as a vehicle for creating wide recognition of the recorded musical work as a potential commodity
for selling tv or radio ads (advertising their wares to be used for advertising)
Furthermore, another aspect of the music industry that features prominently in the potential relationships between artist and label has been the
function of record labels in a diversified, vertically-integrated transnational corporation including beverage sales, appliance manufacturing, and
weapons design and production. Record labels lose money, inherently. The loss is a tax boon for the investing company, but is typically made up for
through non-sales recouping (publishing revenues). However, the loss-nature affects artists' relationships with their labels. Successful touring
artists can get dropped since they don't fit in with the businesses' contemporaneous interests, while entirely incompetent artists who don't sell are
brought in to even out the financials. It's a very strange world.
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eliot
Oud Junkie
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Sherko Dakouri
Katakofta,
The fact that Middle Eastern people are now backward doesn't mean that I should hate them or hate their culture.. On the contrary, it makes me more
determined to do something about this. It's really a joy to have non-Middle Easterners here, but this shouldn't make you turn a blind eye on the fact
that authentic classical music is almost dead in many parts of the Middle East. |
It's not uncommon for people of Middle Eastern descent living, for the most part outside of the Middle East, to view the Middle East as backwards.
This sentiment is much less commonly shared with people actually living day-to-day in the Middle East, who take a very different view of matters.
To provide a "devil's advocate" viewpoint, but one which was frequently mentioned to me quite a bit while I was working in Turkey, Anatolia is home to
amazing ruins that appear to only attract foreigners. Why are Turkish citizens not interested in the archaeological ruins contained on their own soil?
The answer is that they have no choice other than to live in contemporary Turkey, not the ancient Turkey constructed by the outside as a
representation of what true Turkey once was (or, perhaps, might have been). Such ruins have no value in people's actual lives - they make for
remarkably uncomfortable homes, they have no electricity nor running water nor satellite TV, they are in short entirely unpractical. They provide
tourist revenue, but most tourists don't actually want to see or interact with Turks anyways, so why bother going or caring?
Your "authentic classical music" is the archaeological ruins of Anatolia. What it does, what it means, what it represents, what it expresses is of
little relevance to people who live in that territorial area. I disagree with you about the backwardness you mention. People all over the world
actively choose music that expresses things of relevance to them. Mor ve Ötesi and Nil Karaibrahimgil, for Turkish youth, are much more fitting
expressions of the experience of urban life in 21st century Turkey than Dede Efendi or Meragi. For you, "dead" musics have a relevance, perhaps due to
the European romanticization of dead things which permeates a European positionality.
However, "all is not lost," Alevi youth find that modern interpretations of Alevi traditional music (which are probably better considered as a
"classical" or "art" music than a "folk tradition") are relevant, and attendance at Alevi gatherings and concerts is quite good. Several Islamic youth
movements in Istanbul have gotten quite into Turkish classical musics, particular the ayin repertoire of the Mevlevi, and one finds attendance at
Ottoman art music concerts and enrollment in private lessons (ud, kanun, ney in particular) increasing. In both cases, Western interest in the art
forms helped create new local means for rejuvenating interest in the repertoire, but in neither case did Western aesthetic descriptions help in the
revivals. It wasn't the "classical-ness" of the music that sold contemporary youth on the music, but instead, the ability of the music to be re-made,
to be relevant to lives and concerns that are contemporary.
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JamesOud
Oud Junkie
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Hello All,
Just want to start by saying, I hate 'Blue Flame' by Shaheen. Its over produced overdubbed garbage with the corniest fusion I have ever heard with
soprano sax and flute. Theres nothing new about it, its just some corny cliched jazz with a little oud. The only nice track is with oud and nay.
If you have people within the tradition doing this sort of stuff and the West listening to it, what will they think?
I think Nasseer Shamma is the same, he destroys tradition with his Ukelele stye, chords and technique, which even when he plays traditional pieces are
usually undecipherable...
So if we have young oud players looking up to players like these and slowly slowly phasing out tradition. I think the tradition is there and if you
want it you can have it. It largely to do with upbringing, if you're surrounded by it then children and people will absorb it.
I actually think there is a revival of classical arab instruments amongst the young and a zealousness in their identity, I think it will grow and
grow, but unfortunately and i hope its not destroyed furtherby these so called 'oud innovators' that only imitate the West and dont grow musically. Im
into change as long as it really is a change or innovation...not for the worst ofcourse...
Here are two young boys doing us proud! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2-95oJ50IM
Always honest,
James
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Sherko Dakouri
Oud Lover
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Hello JamesOud!
Thank you very much. I totally concur. Preserving the tradition while making real innovations in it is not out of hatred to the West. The West has a
fantastic musical tradition, and it deserves all love and respect from our side (I'm actually trained in Western classical music and have a huge
library of it with all its eras and schools.) What we want is to preserve the beautiful diversity among world cultures that's now being threatened by
our musicians' shallow understanding of globalisation and what it means.
Eliot,
Thanks for your replies. I have to tell you that I'm not that Middle Easterner who lives comfortably in the West and makes wrong judgments about his
homeland. I was raised in Syria, and I spend almost 3 month every year there. I know a lot about how it is to live there permenantly. I have also been
in other countries of the region.
Of course many backward people don't know they are backward, and besides, Turkey is somehow better than the other countries in the Middle East. And
then, the comparison between living in ruins and listening to classical music is terrible. In music, the "new" doesn't delete the "old." Classical
music" means that anyone at any time can listen to it and enjoy it. That's what the word "classical" means. And then this music is not "dead." I can
clearly see that can't appreciate it, and thus you are not in a position to make a sound judgment about this topic. Emotions and feeling are timeless,
as is their expression. Just look at how quickly a pop song falls into oblivion. I agree with you that music should reflect the feeling and
circumstances of its era, but without the classical traditions we have no solid background to rely on.
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ALAMI
Oud Junkie
Posts: 643
Registered: 12-14-2006
Location: Beirut
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Dear Sherko,
To start, just a small friendly remark: when someone posts something on a forum it becomes a public discussion and the poster has no right to decide
who is entitled to respond or not, of course anyone can agree or disagree on the topic but we usually don't judge each other's ability of a "sound
judgment".
So maybe before emitting a radical (and quick) judgment yourself about Eliot, you can just click those small links under the guy's signature and have
a look at his background.
Autocracy, radical judgments, fundamentalisms are among the main reasons of "backward-ism" in the Middle East and it is more than normal that the lack
of a healthy cultural climate would reflect on all aspects of our cultural life including music.
Defending Oriental classical music is a good thing you are doing and of course your intentions are good but do we need yet another extreme, a
"musical Salafism" ?
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katakofka
Oud Junkie
Posts: 811
Registered: 1-24-2008
Location: Cleveland
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Sherko Dakouri
Katakofta,
The fact that Middle Eastern people are now backward doesn't mean that I should hate them or hate their culture.. On the contrary, it makes me more
determined to do something about this. It's really a joy to have non-Middle Easterners here, but this shouldn't make you turn a blind eye on the fact
that authentic classical music is almost dead in many parts of the Middle East. |
I really have a problem understanding your point regarding "Authentic classical music". I don't get it.
Do you mean Bashraf, samaa3i, muwachahaat forms? These are the authentic classical music you are talking about? If this is the case, since when
middle eastern people cares about these form of music. Bashraf , sama3i ...etc were always played in internal circle of musicians, in academies, in
oud teaching and so on. These forms have never been popular or rendered recorded for a big deal of public; and there is a reason for their "classical"
unpopularity; pure music has never been appreciated anywhere in the world and into the arab-middle eastern world in particular. It is caled "silent
music" "musi2a saamita", how could it be silent if music is played? "Silent" because no one is singing !
Muwachahaat were more apreciated since there is singing there, and many singers, musicians, have recorded many muwachahat. Here is one of my favorite
conbination of muwacha7aat, recording in the mid-60s by el rahbani brothers. Fairuz and wadii3 el safi are singing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMUl9iM10uw&feature=related
I am sure most middle-eastern musicians have passed through that experience. Someone visits you and saw the Oud at your home:
Vistor: woow, this is a Oud, do you play it?
Musician: Yes
Visitor: do you sing too?
Musician: No
Visitor: but if you play Oud you should sing
Musician: Ouchhhhhhhhh (deep inside the head).
Why blaming the west if music without singing is not appreciated in the middle-east? Neither here, I don't get you.
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Sherko Dakouri
Oud Lover
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Hello ALAMI
Anyone who compares classical musical traditions with - in his view - "useless" ruins, certainly has no appreciation of that art form, regardless of
his background. To give you a closer example, can we claim that Beethoven's Ninth is dead and compare it to ruins? That would be a cultural crime.
It's a timeless classic that will never cease to thrill us unless we live in anera of total barbarism.
You wouldn't have called me a fundamentalist had you read what I wrote on the ways in which we can benifit from Western music in general. A culture
that doesn't absorb other influences will probably be boring and even dead. I wrote: "Read Henry George Farmer to know how much the West took from the
Islamic civilisation in fields including music. Most Western instruments have Middle Eastern origins. In this respect, I'm not against adopting the
cello or bass for instance. Some harmony at a few places can be beautiful, and counterpoint can be used even more.. Making the existant forms "bigger"
like those in Western classical music won't hurt either." And I add that we can also benifit from the colourful orchestration of Western classical
music. Can you call me a fundamentalist after this? Regards
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eliot
Oud Junkie
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Sherko Dakouri
Of course many backward people don't know they are backward, and besides, Turkey is somehow better than the other countries in the Middle East. And
then, the comparison between living in ruins and listening to classical music is terrible. In music, the "new" doesn't delete the "old." Classical
music" means that anyone at any time can listen to it and enjoy it. That's what the word "classical" means. And then this music is not "dead." I can
clearly see that can't appreciate it, and thus you are not in a position to make a sound judgment about this topic. Emotions and feeling are timeless,
as is their expression. Just look at how quickly a pop song falls into oblivion. I agree with you that music should reflect the feeling and
circumstances of its era, but without the classical traditions we have no solid background to rely on. |
I think you almost entirely misunderstood what I mean, largely by confusing what I enjoy/believe for myself, and what I've observed contemporary Turks
enjoy/believe for themselves.
I don't view Meragi and music composed before I was born as something beyond appreciation or value; I actually actively perform these repertoires and
have for over 15 years. I have taught the performance practice of this music to students in the US and Turkey. It is with considerable effort and
personal expense that I have learned about Turkish traditional, art, classical etc. performance practices, repertoires, makams, and music history. I
also have extensive background in Western music historiography, having studied with Richard Taruskin and others, and thus am in a fairly good position
to compare the "construction" of "classical" music in Western/Central Europe with the later "construction" project that happened in Turkey.
What I am saying is that the entire premise of the way you approach the concept of classical music is potentially flawed, at least in relation with
your stated aims and objectives - it is also an entirely western conception of musical value. No music is inherently timeless nor
inherently classical. The emotions and feelings that the music was able to convey and express several hundred years ago are not the ones, typically,
that are expressed now in performances of the "same" work.
That doesn't mean that contemporary performance of old works is without value or a waste of time. What it does mean is that the music has to be
continuously reinterpreted. I don't mean playing the tunes on synthesizers or other immediate modernizations of the music (though that could be one
technique). But the meaning/feelings of the music has to be actively made contemporary and relevant. Music does not express things by itself.
Expression results from a relationship between performer and audience, which happens immediately and contemporaneously (either at the moment of
performance or the moment of audition), not in some imagined past.
When performance of "classics" gets relegated to an archaeological tour of what once was a "great Empire," classical music becomes, literally, an
archaeological ruin. It is some historical oddity that attracts tourists to Turkey - tourists who have no interest in the contemporary, living
culture, but in an imagined past. It doesn't have to be this way. However, you, me, we all have to understand how it is that old music becomes,
alternately, perceived either as a cultural ruin or (much better) as a cultural rejuvenation.
Please understand, I mention this not to demean your interests in promoting older repertoires, as we both share similar interests, and from
reading some of your other posts, it sounds like we enjoy some of the exact same musicians and styles of music as well. Concern about the "decaying"
state of public interest in "serious" music is not unique to discussions of older Middle Eastern musical repertoires; it's been a hot topic in Western
Europe, America, India, and elsewhere for much longer. There have been many failed attempts to lure "backwards" peoples to music that they allegedly
fail to appreciate.
I've been responding to your posts in the hopes I provide food for thought that helps you more efficiently achieve your stated aims... to reiterate, I
think you need to also put effort into understanding why it is that people in the Middle East (Syria, in your case) have made the musical choices that
they have. That may require you to temporarily suspend your perceptions of "backwardness." With that information, you may be able to better target
your campaign...
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Sherko Dakouri
Oud Lover
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Hey Eliot!
I'm not that kind of person who defends himself to the end despite knowing that he's wrong. If I find myself wrong, I'll openly admit it.
Your idea about classical musics not surviving in free markets may be true, but I think it's the governments and not any multi-millionaires who should
support the preservation of these musics as national treasures. I'm talking about democratic governments of course, not like those regimes that you
find in the Middle East who reflect the current state of mind of its people.
I still insist that classical music is not dead and can still be relevant. I actually don't think there is any music we can call "dead." A gave an
example about Beethoven's Ninth - and countless classics by the way. Do you think it's dead? How shoud it be reinterprited?
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eliot
Oud Junkie
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Sherko Dakouri
I'm not that kind of person who defends himself to the end despite knowing that he's wrong. If I find myself wrong, I'll openly admit it.
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No, you appear to be the kind of person who has no hesitation on making public judgments against people you have never met; who uses internet posting
as a tool for self-aggrandizement but hides under the shroud of academic interest; and who feels that they already know everything there is to know
about music and aesthetics, in the present, in antiquity, and every time in between. You're not the first with such an attitude to wander into these
forums, and I doubt you will be the last. But I, for one, am done with this mess of ASCII that might have been a constructive debate. I'm sure with
your condescending attitude you'll be able to win millions from governments for preservations of classical relics and single-handedly save the world
(particularly those backwards peoples) from bad Arab pop music.
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Sherko Dakouri
Oud Lover
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Registered: 6-17-2008
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Hey Eliot
I apologise if I have said something wrong about you. Don't turn the debate into a personal quarrel. I really want this to be a constructive debate,
and I want a person with your experience to be a part of that. Therefore, I'll raise these simple questions: 1. Is it really possible for any music to
"die"? 2. How shoul the classical musical traditions of the Middle East be performed (give an example)? 3. Give some examples of some musicians whose
music you belive embodies the soul of our era. ¤. How shoul our interaction with other musics of this world be? How much should we "take" and how
much shoul we "preserve"? Give an example of the accepted limit. Regards.
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JamesOud
Oud Junkie
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Registered: 7-22-2004
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Hey Eliot and Sherko,
Make sure this doesnt happen ok...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEHnGQThm0s&feature=related
Light James
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Christian1095
Oud Junkie
Posts: 454
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OK, so my limited arabic took me as far as "guitars (oud) are haram" and Crash... then some sort of sad song 
I hope that girl can fight cause if she had broken my oud... 
Sherko, do you dislike Arabs? Your tone implies that there is a good deal of resentment there. Not being Arab, I have a hard time 'getting' where
you're coming from... I absolutly love America.. She is my home and I will always love her... I'm not too happy with a lot of our policies... but
you take the good with the bad and you try to make it a little better every day... It's home 
To illustrate where I'm coming from.....
You said....
1. not like those regimes that you find in the Middle East who reflect the current state of mind of its people
2. we are very backward people. Everything there sucks, including culture and music.
3. if it were all the Americans' fault, we couldn't have done anything
4. Indeed, we don't know how to deal with our culture and how to preserve it and make it flourish
Which gives the impression that you feel...
1. Arabs are incapible of governing themselves... Especially with that quote from Marx
2. Don't like your own culture... what about your culture DO you like?
3. Not only do you not like your own culture, you feel 'The Arabs' are completely powerless against it...
4. More of "my culture sucks!"
It seems to me that either you're trying to purposefully upset people on the board, or you've decided to be completely insensitive to the feelings of
others... You might be disgusted with the culture and music.... but I'm guessing there are others here who may very well be offended at such
language.
So with all the negative comments, what about Arabic music do YOU think is critical to preserve and why... what does it give us? Why is the Samaii so
special? And what have YOU done?
To answer my own questions...
I think Arabic music should be preserved so that future generations will be able to know more about thier own culture. Part of MY heritage is Irish
and it's made my life a little richer to learn some celtic music... it helps me understand where my people come from.... I would imagine that if I
was Palestinian, or Syrian, or Egyptian, the effect would be the same.
The Samaii is important to me because the structure and rhtym is totally alien.. so it's a stepping stone to better understanding the music....
What am I doing... Well, I'm learning the music of a foreign and alien culture. When friends come over, I'll play the Oud for them and they will
know a little more about Middle Eastern music and perhaps look at the people and region with fewer stereotypes in thier mind.
So what's your response?
Chris Walters
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Tkoind
Oud Maniac
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Registered: 7-24-2007
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I'm convinced that the best way to support and promote traditional instruments and music is to get out there and play. There are a lot of people who
will fall in love with these sounds and traditions if they have the chance to be exposed to them.
For two years now in Tokyo we've been producing mixed ethnic events. We invite musicians, dancers, performers and visual artists to join in creating
an evening of ethnic and ethnic inspired performance.
For example one night featured a Bulgarian band with Oud, Ney, Kaval, Rebak and more. Also on the bill, Traditional Japanese Okinawan dance, Persian
and Silk Road music, Gypsy dance and Egyptian Belly Dance.
These events are drawing more and more people. Some who showed up because they were curious are now performers in current shows. There has been
intense interest in the instruments, music and performances. Dance classes are growing and more and more people are taking up instruments.
I would encourage those who have time to set up events. Do them at places outside the usual ethnic music and dance circles. Mix it up with a lot of
different regional styles. And get people to come out. And have information about instruments, classes and how to get involved.
It is working for us here. I hope it will work for others.
Maybe we can start a network of events globally and some day have performers from other areas join partner events in other cities. Our doors are
always open to performers who come to Japan to share their love for ethnic and traditional music. I hope others will give it a try too.
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charlie oud
Oud Junkie
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Registered: 11-19-2007
Location: Newcastle upon tyne. UK
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Mood: chords prefer frets
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 Sherko, you are out of control, try calm down mate. We are all
enjoying our music, you can too. Peace, C.
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Sherko Dakouri
Oud Lover
Posts: 20
Registered: 6-17-2008
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Dear Christian!
I have absolutely no resentment towards any people in the Middle East or in the World. I consider nationalist thinking narrow-minded and egocentric,
and you can see me defending Arabic (and Turkish and Persian...) music with the same enthusiasm that I'm defending Kurdish music with. I said
previously that I was a Kurd from Syria, but I have the deepest love for all cultures in my region and in this world. When I say that people in the
Middle East are backwards, I don't only mean the Arabs, I'm speaking here generally. No dictator would be able to control us had we not been dictators
at home.. Such things may be difficult to understand for someone who is not from such a society. And to be critical of someone doesn't mean to hate
them and be racist. I'm absolutely not against listening to Western music and benifiting from it, but on the condition that we don't lose our own
identity. I'm not dismissing others' cultures, I'm only asking not to dismiss our own cultures! Please, try you and Eliot not to turn this discussion
into a polemic against me. Regards.
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katakofka
Oud Junkie
Posts: 811
Registered: 1-24-2008
Location: Cleveland
Member Is Offline
Mood: Gypsy
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It's so simple Sherko when someone used such a language (sucks ! backwarded) in a public debate the outcome might not be clear. One is accusing you as
musical salafist (nice oxymoron Alami !) the other accusing you as being racist...
For myself, I still didn't swallow the "backwarded" people in the middle east that you still repeating it. For me the only backwarded people are the
ones living in the past. The backwarded people are persons claiming knowlegde of culture, trying to protect it but they don't know what they want to
protect. The backwarded people are the one giving lectures in a public debate on a substance they don't know what they are tatlking about.
Since you lived in Syria, here is a "backhwarded" group called "Hewaar". Check that youtube and read carefully want is written in that video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DxY3mJo8fE
Hewaar are traveling all over the world. They know their music, their culture and they are exposing it in forms accepted by a large audiance. I don't
see them backwarded at all ! In syria you have also the great saba7 fakhri, but he still singing and repeating the same repertoire for almost 50
years. Is he really protecting his music by doing so?
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katakofka
Oud Junkie
Posts: 811
Registered: 1-24-2008
Location: Cleveland
Member Is Offline
Mood: Gypsy
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http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&am...
Listen to the man vocal from min 2:40 in the music called INK.The voice is for Issam rafea (the Oud player in the group). Do you hear a new saba7
fakhri or not?
Issam is a fantastic Oud player (listen how he plays the Oud in the music Dance). in addition to his position as Chair of the Arabic Music Department
in Damascus, he is on faculty of the Arab Conservatory where he teaches both Oud and western Harmony.
Who is helping in spreading his culture, saba7 fakhri or Issam Rafea?
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Masel
Oud Junkie
Posts: 367
Registered: 6-18-2006
Member Is Offline
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Hey, I wanted to add my view. Before middle-eastern music I was (and still am) into rock'n'roll, and that's what we play in our band. But more and
more we are building a combination of the two different energies and trying to mix them in a way that is respectful to both styles. In our "vision" it
fits and is very possible but still this is very difficult and it will take some years before we can do it properly, but I think we are on the right
way, and as a result, more of my band members are following my lead and getting more seriously interested in proper middle eastern music.
I'd like to see more people doing these things, for the sake of innovation and new creation but also to use these mediums as doors to expose people to
the traditional ways. So I think if done seriously and with respect, fusions can be good, but they will never for me replace the original.
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