Samer
Oud Maniac
Posts: 58
Registered: 7-14-2008
Location: MI
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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Badrosian Oud
Dear all,
I have this oud oud in MI , it’s Made of Badrosian Im %100 positive its real. I bought several old ouds, I took them all to an oud expert to verify
that they are %100 real.
These ouds were choosen amoung 50 ouds ( most of them were fake )
this oud is really a piece of art and it’s in a great condition.
Please let me know if you are interested in this oud.
Thanks,
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Samer
Oud Maniac
Posts: 58
Registered: 7-14-2008
Location: MI
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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More pics
| Quote: | Originally posted by Samer
Dear all,
I have this oud oud in MI , it’s Made of Badrosian Im %100 positive its real. I bought several old ouds, I took them all to an oud expert to verify
that they are %100 real.
These ouds were choosen amoung 50 ouds ( most of them were fake )
this oud is really a piece of art and it’s in a great condition.
Please let me know if you are interested in this oud.
Thanks, |
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Raabiah
Oud Maniac
Posts: 50
Registered: 9-14-2007
Location: UK
Member Is Offline
Mood: lost in a world of oudism
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Hey Samer! is it possible to get a sound clip please?
would appreciate it.
Peace!1!
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Samer
Oud Maniac
Posts: 58
Registered: 7-14-2008
Location: MI
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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mm I wish I could but I dont play ouds very well beside, plus the oud is packed and ready to be shipped, If you dont like the sound of it you can
return it for a full refund.
We are located in Royal Oak MI.
Thanks,
Palmyrami
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SamirCanada
Moderator
Posts: 3404
Registered: 6-4-2004
Member Is Offline
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Samer,
you should take a picture of the label.
when looking at an old oud of that value that is the first thing you want to see.
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Jonathan
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1582
Registered: 7-27-2004
Location: Los Angeles
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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You're kidding, right? You expect somebody to make an offer on an oud, but you can't take it out of the box and post a sound clip and picture of the
label?
Ridiculous.
Unpack it. It's fairly simple to do. Take a picture of the label, post it, and put the oud back in the box.
And, oh yeah, maybe you should address this thread: http://mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=7560#pid49128
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jaron
Oud Maniac
Posts: 84
Registered: 6-14-2008
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Mood: No Mood
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Samer, I was one of the people who encouraged you to get involved with this forum. You sill have to adjust to the customs here a little bit more!
If you get a digital camera and hold it up to the rose, it will auto-focus on the label. It's always interesting to see what's in there. I
discovered that an original Nahat label had been covered up by some idiot repair person's label in Brooklyn.
The more open you are and the more you engage with the "oud snobs" (I mean that as a high compliment) the more successful you will be. Many of us
are happy with our recent transaction with you. The Sukar I bought from you is fantastic.
You are providing a wonderful service in bringing these items into the US at your own risk- thanks for doing that.
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Ronny Andersson
Oud Junkie
Posts: 724
Registered: 8-15-2003
Location: Sweden
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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Nice fake Samer is selling. http://www.palmyrami.com/index.php?categoryID=121
Best wishes
Ronny
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SamirCanada
Moderator
Posts: 3404
Registered: 6-4-2004
Member Is Offline
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Samer,
you have to understand a few things....
this is free advice so feel free to take it or leave it.
You are selling ouds to people who spend a great amount of time reasearching the various topic of this forum. this means that your potential clients
are experts on the oud. You have said yourself... you are not a oud expert and thats ok.
the fact that you say you asked oud experts to identify this oud is not important.
who are theses experts anyways?? it doesnt matter regardless.
what you have to show is the oud pictures ( in details including the areas with problems/blemishes) and show the label so that the members on this
site can make a judgement. Remember those are the people you want to sell to, so you have to let them make their own opinion about the oud.
Since you have said you are not an expert on ouds, you should know that by trying to look knowlegeable you are not acheiving this goal. There are
somethings that you say when you put adds up or description of ouds that compleetly reflect the fact that you have minimal knowlege of ouds. While you
may try to sound like an expert its not working very good and it gives the buyer a wrong feeling.
No body likes buying something from someone who doesnt know what they are talking about.
That being said there is something positive to take from this...
The ouds you are bringing from Ibrahim Sukar have a great reputation and its true they usualy all have great workmenship and good sound. Plus the very
best thing working for Sukar ouds is Consistency! they have a great standard which makes it hard to stumble accros a terrible Sukar oud.
Surprise! oud players know that very well!
you dont need to tell them that they are the best in world and that all the pros use them. They know it!
Remember nobody spends 700$ on an a professional instrument they dont have a clue about.
look at this add you put up this week...
there are soo many things wrong with what you say in it and its not your fault because your trying to sell the oud but what you need to know is that
is not necessary.
QUOTE:
"Made of high quality black walnut wood, this professional oud
was made by Ibrahim Sukar, a great Syrian out maker known
for his high quality genuine products that most professional
musicians use all over the worldwith six double strings and a non-
fretted neck. It has nice and attractive colors and it includes a
high quality hard case made by the same master Sukar. Its
pegs are varnished and their adjustment section is very smooth.
It has also extra ebony keys. It is really a piece of art which it
took a long time and many efforts to make. Be careful
of imitations, always ask for a certificate of authenticity. Make
sure to get it !!! " END QUOTE
Here is what is wrong...
"high quality black walnut wood"
(how do you know the quality of wood?? just say the oud is made of dark walnut)
"a great Syrian out maker known
for his high quality genuine products that most professional
musicians use all over the world"
(we know this... you dont need to say it, or you should say played by many professionals not MOST)
"six double strings and a non-fretted neck"
( this is just something that will show the buyer of a professional instrument that you have no idea what you are talking about. Anyone who is ready
to buy a Sukar oud knows about Sukar ouds especialy that they have 6 double course and an unfretted neck. ITs a oud!! no ouds have FRETS!)
"It has nice and attractive colors and it includes a high quality hard case made by the same master Sukar"
(everyone can see its attractive... Just say the oud comes with the standard Sukar hard case, everyone knows about that case you dont need to attest
to its quality.)
"Its pegs are varnished and their adjustment section is very smooth"
( again this sentence shows the buyer you have no clue about ouds... pegs are NEVER varnished on a professional oud and they are not varnished on
Sukar ouds either, They are well fitted perhaps? yes they are sometimes so you can say: the pegs are well fitted and they turn nicely. But that is not
for you to say since you said you are not a oud expert. Sukar ouds have a nice reputation to hold so if the pegs are not good its not your fault its
the maker's fault)
"Be careful of imitations, always ask for a certificate of authenticity"
( Sukar ouds are rarely imitated but if it where it would be easy to tell for someone who knows sukar ouds. On the other hand you have no idea if its
fake because you are not an expert so leave it to the customer to determine if its fake or not. Also, if you bought the oud from Sukar himself its not
fake)
The above statements show you how your message is perceived by someone who knows about ouds. It may sound harsh but its the reality and I encourage
you to take some knowlege about ouds and about this comunity of oud lovers. We know our stuff!
One final word of advice.
Ouds sell themselves you dont have to market them, push sell them and all that.
Its a love story.... you see the oud, you like it, you get it.
It has nothing to do with how you sell it.
the sell themselves
Thank you for reading.
I hope you will find some usefull information there.
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Jason
Oud Junkie
Posts: 733
Registered: 9-17-2005
Location: Louisville, KY
Member Is Offline
Mood: Loving my oud
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Very good advice Samir
I'd also like to point out there is a For Sale forum for ouds that are being sold. It makes the forum easier to browse if you make your posts in the
appropriate forum. Back when I was shopping for an oud if I didn't have much time I'd come here and only look in the for sale forum so it's a good
idea to post there if you are selling something.
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carpenter
Oud Junkie
Posts: 248
Registered: 8-30-2005
Location: Eugene OR
Member Is Offline
Mood: brimming with hope
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Ouds for sale here would be more appropriately posted under "Buy & Sell Ouds." If I were in the market, that's where I'd look.
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Samer
Oud Maniac
Posts: 58
Registered: 7-14-2008
Location: MI
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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Dear All,
Please Let me explain few points here.
First of all, I know about ouds I have being around many musicians I love listening to ouds yet Im not an expert nor I play ouds.
You wanted a sound sample but I dont play ouds so I can’t get sound sample.
Regarding the pics, I have plenty of them listed on palmyrami.com , How do I post multiple pics on mike oud ? it did not let me post more than one
picture ?
Thanks so much for your advice Samir, I highly appreciate it
I agree with some of them.
You really need to keep in mind that not all buyers are experts and know about ouds as you think.
I have had many buyers that know nothing about ouds nor about makers yet they end up buying high end sukker oud. Many buyers never heard of sukkar or
know the difference better $200 and $800.
Trust me your statement below is totally wrong, %50 that buy sukkar ouds have no idea who Sukkar is.
“Remember nobody spends 700$ on an a professional instrument they dont have a clue about.”
I really think it’s important to explain in details what is the oud and talk a little about the maker ,etc.
Most of the description in my listings were taken from Sukkar and transferred to English, my goal was not to show buyers that I’m an expert but
to explain about the products I’m selling to those that dont know much about ouds !
It’s like you are selling a laptop or a car, you would write detailed specs or description of the car or the laptop even though u are not an
expert !! don’t you think so ?
Number of buyers buy ouds just to collect different types of music instruments or just because they heard it on a DVDS once therefore marking and
adverting can help to get the these type of buyers. You offered me once to advertise for my ouds in mikeouds remember ?
“Be careful of imitations, always ask for a certificate of authenticity"
I have seen fake sukker ouds in Syria that selling for $30 so I don’t think it would hurt to warren buyers or get their attention to this point (
again not all buyers are experts )
I do know if sukkar oud is fake or real ! I have visited him many times, I’m also %100 sure that mine are real otherwise I would not have mentioned
anything !
“Its pegs are varnished and their adjustment section is very smooth"
You are right on this I will change it. I really did not know it was incorrect. Thanks.
"It has nice and attractive colors and it includes a high quality hard case made by the same master Sukar"
I don’t see anything wrong with this at all ? I should not say it’s nice or high quality why ? this is very standard, go to any listing on ebay
or other places, sellers always say nice words about the products they sell. maybe you know sukkar case very well but many buyers never seen them.
Regarding the expert that I mentioned in antique oud , this is very important point.
Since I’m not an expert and many buyers are not, it’s hard to tell if the oud is fake or not, it’s like you are buying an antique painting,
Would not you take it to an expert before you buy it ?
Most ouds that were offered to me came up to be FAKE even though I thought many of them would come up to be real ! , there are few experts in Syria
that can tell everything about the ouds even small details ( different rosette or keys,etc )
Believe it or not, M.R Ibrahim Sukar buys antique ouds sometimes and ask the same expert that I ask before he buys an expensive ouds
Also many famous musicians such as Wadi Safi ask the same expert !
I really don’t want to sell an oud thinking its real then the buyer finds out its fake after he gets it, this will damage my name as a seller plus I
hate selling fake things !!
Most ouds in the market are fake but most buyers or even oud players would not know. Kalifa had some old ouds thinking it’s made by Nahat and it
came up to be fake as well !!
Even the label can be fake , you have no idea how bad the cheating is, especially in Nahat and Badrosian ouds.
Why do you think it’s wrong or not important to mention this ? this is the truth.
We have spent a lot of effort to get real ouds to the US and I want buyers to know this fact.
Again Samir thanks so much for your useful advice , I will try to update my listings and make it more accurate, I would be very happy if you help me
to create a good description of sukkar ouds or any oud that I sell.
Thanks for your advice jaron, I will place mine on ouds for sale from now on.
I’m really happy to listen to more opinions and feedbacks from you, it does not bother me at all. the reason I’m here to improve my performance as
seller so I’m willing to listen to any comments you have many have, you can also email me to palmyrami@gmail.com
Regards,
Palmyrami
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SamirCanada
Moderator
Posts: 3404
Registered: 6-4-2004
Member Is Offline
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Samer,
thanks for your honest reply.
I was rather harsh in my critiques/advice.
if you need any help/advice I will provide it to you 
send me an email if you have any questions.
all the best with Palmyrami!
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francis
Oud Junkie
Posts: 428
Registered: 4-8-2008
Location: Saintes , France
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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I'm not sure that I drive a oud like I play the car.......
......and I'm waiting, waiting, waiting.........
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Samer
Oud Maniac
Posts: 58
Registered: 7-14-2008
Location: MI
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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its all good, we are all different and have different point of view, it does not mean one of us is wrong and the other is right !!
Thanks for your offer, I might take you up on it.
Franics,
Your items were shipped, Its just you are in France and shipping is very slow, there is another options where its very fast but the cost is triple or
even more.
Thanks,
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francis
Oud Junkie
Posts: 428
Registered: 4-8-2008
Location: Saintes , France
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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I wish the wind blows from west to east......I'm living on west coast of France....my eyes look far away, on the horizon line.....
Thanks, Samer.
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Samer
Oud Maniac
Posts: 58
Registered: 7-14-2008
Location: MI
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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did u get your case Francis ?
Take care,
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DaveH
Oud Junkie
Posts: 526
Registered: 12-23-2005
Location: Birmingham, UK
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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Hi Samer
I just realised, the position of the inlay on the bottom right of the soundboard would indicate this oud has at some time been used by a left-hander.
Both this and the risha guard look as if they have been glued on later, but was this build as a left-handed oud? If so, it might not play so well
strung up for right-handed playing.
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Melbourne
Oud Junkie
Posts: 354
Registered: 10-9-2006
Location: Mlebourne, Australia
Member Is Offline
Mood: راحة الأرواح
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This is an interesting post....
I think Samir's advice to Samer is very genuine, it's something you'd tell a friend if you cared about them, it's harsh, but it's the truth.
The biggest hurdle I think someone faces with buying online, is to establish whether the seller is a crook or not, and in this case, we know that
Samer isn't  because people have bought ouds and they received them! Also we
know that Samer is genuine, because he has joined these forums and was prepared to take on the feedback of customers, and address the issues to make
the customers happier. But in something as sensitive as ouds, where your dealing with artists and passionate, sometimes obsessive people, its very
tough for a seller. For example, I wouldnt buy an oud from someone online, if I knew he/she was doing in for purley money making purposes, I'd be a
lot more keen to buy an oud from someone who shares the passion, a fellow musician, or a maker. For example Ronny Andersson used to sell ouds here in
the past, and every one knows thats his a passionate iraqi oud fan, so that would boost the buyer's confidence in purchasing an instrument from him.
One would say the same about Oud Proff, and other forum members who simply get bored of thier ouds or sell them fom financial reasons etc.
My honest opinion would be, that people buy the sukar ouds from Samer, becuase, like Samir said, they speak for themselves. I don't need to read the
description, becuase I know what a sukar oud is. But for other things like the khalifeh and iraqi ouds, this is where we (forum members) get really
sussed, because we know that the khaliffeh and fake iraqis are trashy, and not professional even if the price is low. The word "professional" gets
thrown around too easily around the forums I find. You can spend $5,000 on a viloin for example, and its not professional, just a decent sturdy
serious student instrument!!
By no means I'm trying to be negative here, and I myself will eventually buy a sukar from Palmyrami. But I hope these comments will be taken on board
as "constructive criticism".
Regards,
Sam
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francis
Oud Junkie
Posts: 428
Registered: 4-8-2008
Location: Saintes , France
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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Hello samer.
I receive the case this morning, this one isn't broken.....but empty!
Nothing about the materiels you said you join in the package.....
So how could we trust you in this forum.
A few guys spend long times to inform you about the way to follow to become credible.....and always some things which break the business.....
That's your choice, man....
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Samer
Oud Maniac
Posts: 58
Registered: 7-14-2008
Location: MI
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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Man I ordered the Materiels from sukkar but he did not send it yet, I did not want to keep you waiting so I sent you another hard case and I will ship
you the materiels once I get it. or you can just through the other case away and I will refund the money you paid for the second case. I did what I
could but the locks and pads are not in stock now.
Im doing my best to make this work but things are not as easy as you think, Sukkar takes for ever to send me the materiels needed !!
Thanks,
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francis
Oud Junkie
Posts: 428
Registered: 4-8-2008
Location: Saintes , France
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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Right Samer, but a few words on a paper in the case, or an email to explain are better than none information which builts the doubt.
It seems to me that the unpleasant feedbacks on this ( great ) forum are the only way to get answers or informations from you....
It mustn't be like this for trust in business...
But I thank you for the case.....and I think I want to believe you!
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Samer
Oud Maniac
Posts: 58
Registered: 7-14-2008
Location: MI
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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You did not email me did you ? I answer all emails right away. anyways as for now you choose either a refund and forget the damaged case I will take
the hit or just allow sukkar a week or so till he sends needed materiels.
I held the case for nearly 10 days waiting on the locks and pads from sukkar then I thought to send the case better than keep holding your order.
Please email me to palmyrami@gmail.com.
Regards,
Palmyrami
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francis
Oud Junkie
Posts: 428
Registered: 4-8-2008
Location: Saintes , France
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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Samer, we're not stupid childs. If you think the last word is the right word, I don't play this game....
At first, read correctly the posts ( all the posts ), so you won't answer out.
Second, try to be faithly
Third, how many posts on this forum to give you the same message?To help you?
No one is perfect, but it's better to set bounds to a few purposes.
I don't want to go on with this kind of quarrels, it's always the same.....
You're a seller, you have to be clear with the people which are or could be your buyers.
At first, it seems to be an evidence......after.....
I wish you succeed in your business, Samer.
The discussion is over for me.
Clap de fin.
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