francis
Oud Junkie
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buzz
Hello guys.
After a research in the forum's threads I don't find an answer about the buzzing on my oud.
The oud is new and I play it since two weeks.
At first the buzzing wasn't important, the action was very low so I put the strings higher from the bridge.
It doesn't cause problem when playing softly, just if i played very loud.
Now, it is becoming harder to avoid it and it concerns each string ( tuned FF AA DD GG cc ff ).
I don't believe there is a loose brace. I tested the top , sweet hammering everywhere, no vibration ....
To my ears, the buzzing appears outside of the bowl, between my left hand fingers and the bridge, all along the strings.
A problem with the bridge? I tried to test by insering cotton pieces between the strings near the bridge.....I lost buzz...and sound, of course, so I
still don't know.
A problem with the fingerboard? It's an ebony one and it seems to be plan. Maybe there is a little angle at the place where neck and bowl join. The
thickness reduce from this place to the the rosette, I think it's a normal way....
I'm sure someone here can give me ideas to find and resolve the problem...
I thank you!
Francis
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shareen
Oud Junkie
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Hi Francis,
I have found that whenever I buy an instrument, either very old or new or in between, within a few weeks of aclamating itself to my house, the action
changes. Sometimes lower, sometimes higher. Wood is a living, breathing thing. IT absorbs heat, cold, moisture, reacts to dryness, humidity
changes, etc. It's very tempermental. That is why it is important to have a place where you keep your instruments that is climate controlled.
Otherwise you will always have these problems. That is why classical guitar necks have to be re-set over time, and oud necks move, etc. Since ouds
do not have truss rods (at least most of them don't), its always a drag when the action starts to change because it often is not an easy fix. I would
not recommend doing anything yourself. You'll only botch it up. Find a professional. If you don't have one near you, send it off to someone you can
trust. If you love your instrument let a pro do it. (just my humble oppinion after owning fine stringed instruments for around 40 years).
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Amer
Oud Maniac
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| Quote: | Originally posted by shareen
Wood is a living, breathing thing. IT absorbs heat, cold, moisture, reacts to dryness, humidity changes, etc. It's very tempermental
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I like the way you put it shareen...
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Dr. Oud
Oud Junkie
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There could be a few sources, the string height at the body joint should be at least 1/8 inch (3mm); any lower is asking for a buzz as the string must
have some room to vibrate. The neck maybe cupped -hold a string down at the top and at the end of the neck (at the body) and look at the neck toward a
window or light. If you see light under the center of the string the neck is cupped and must be sanded down. Sometimes the strings can buzz in the
pegbox if they are crossing over each other. The strings should also be at least 1/32 inch (1mm) above the fingerboard at the top nut. let's see...
what else?
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francis
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Shareen:
Thanks for you fine answer.
I also play fine wooden instruments for a long time....because they don't always produce the same sounds, woods stay alive and never sing exactly with
the same voices. The pipes ( uilleann and bulgarian gaidas ) sounds, particulary, are of many colors depending from dryness, humidity, temperature and
certainly other conditions around.
I Often have to ( myself and other pipers ) move reeds bridles to optimise the sound with the place where i'm playing.
Of course , stringed instruments ( cittern, oud....) move with the weather, even when we keep them in a controlled room....
My new oud have to "work" and it will sound better. I play it everyday and I learn to hear it own sound.
The buzzing , to my taste, is too important because it's difficult to play loud. I like very much when the sound of an oud is on the edge of buzzing,
that is one of the particularities of ouds, but it doesn't take too much place.
Dr Oud:
I thank youalso for you helpfull answer.
One of my doubts was about the neck which could be curved. I test it, as you say, with one string down just after nut and body/neck area. No light is
passing trough .
May be i'll test again this evening with a plan tool for more precision.
I don't think the buzzing comes from the pegbox, and strings don't cross in.
Is it possible that it comes from the bridge ( holes to wide, strings vibrations inside...)?
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francis
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I want to add that the buzzing is more important in the middle of the neck : third, fourth and fifth positions. Does it means surely a curved neck or
fingerboard?
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suz_i_dil
Oud Junkie
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Just an idea more, but it may come also from a rosette.
The fact that all the strings are buzzing make me think of that. When I saw oud buzzing, coming from nut, bridge or fingerboard it was always
concerning 1 or 2 strings, but not the whole. That is what I am finding strange.
Regards
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Dr. Oud
Oud Junkie
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The only thing that could buzz at the bridge is loose string ends - they should be trimmed short. The roses could be a cause if any part of the rose
is cracked or the glue joint loose. One cause could be your mizrab technique. If the strings are close to the fingerboard and you strum toward the
face the string will vibrate more perpendicular to the face, sometimes this will cause a buzz. If you strum more parallel to the face the string will
vibrate in that direction more and may sound clearer.
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francis
Oud Junkie
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Thanks to you Richard.
To my opinion there is no problem withe a bad vibration from the rosettes: I check them in the same time I check the top.
About the risha technique, I strum in a parallel direction to the face. I never had this buzz problem with my old cheap oud ( also with a low action
and with soft Labella strings set tuned in the arabic way: C GG AA DD gg cc)
Probably I will resolve the buzz with one of the two reasons looking as possible:
- Fingerboard curved a little.
-Loose strings ends too long.
I will test these possible reasons today.
Thank again for the help!
Francis
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rojaros
Oud Junkie
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Hi Francis, I had an oud buzzing because of the rosette. I reglued it and the buzz was gone. Funny enough, I could not locate the buzz before I took
the rosette out, because I thought that some part of the bracing was loose.
When the rosette bwas out, the buzz was gone and then I knew...
best luck
Robert
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francis
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Hello.
I spend sunday afternoon at a friend's home and workshop.
He is a luthier ( violins, violas , cellos and double bass ) so he checked my oud and work on it.
At first he saw the neck wasn't plan: a bump on the fingerboard between the area where the neck joins to the bowl.
Second : he told me that the action was too low and the strings can't be played loudly.
So he planes the fingerboard ( 1,5 mm at the bump place ) and prepare an ebony piece of wood to put on the bridge if necessary to get the strings
higher at this place.
I change the strings set ( Now a Bruckner's one, medium gauge ).
The result is fine. No more buzzing now and I don't have to install the ebony piece on the bridge.
Bruckner's strings seem to be better for this instrument. The gauge is lighter than with the old strings ( the oud top is less cupped ) but the sound
is really better, and louder. I believe it is very fine after a few week , when the strings are well strectched...
I thank those who give me the help to find where the problem was....this forum is a great one!
Cheers,
Francis
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suz_i_dil
Oud Junkie
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Hello Francis
May you give me information about those Bruckner strings: for wich tuning are they made and for what stringlenght? Where do you find those sets?
Thanks.
Regards
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francis
Oud Junkie
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Hello suz_i_dil.
I ordered this set of strings to "le point d'accroche" in Paris.
At first it was to change the strings on my cheap "tourist" oud, i'm not satisfied with his sound. This set is supposed to be a bit stronger than the
d'aquila's one which is in place.
This oud is a 61,5 cm stringlength.
On the "Nahat "doubleprice and multirepaired" copy oud" the string length is 60 cm.
The seller chooses the strings you prefer to get the best set possible, and it's two days max to receive it in France...
http://www.lepointdaccroche.com/?Accessoires.
J'espère que cela répond à ton questionnement!
A plus
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suz_i_dil
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Bonjour Francis
Thanks for the information.
I didn't knew those strings but I know the point d'accroche, very nice people there. It is them how adviced me about the broken oud I was talking
before.
Maybe I will try if those exist in hard tension, as I am only using 58,5cm string lenght ouds. Just a choice I made, I prefer to play on smaller
ouds.
A plus tard
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rojaros
Oud Junkie
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Hi Francis,
I went on that site http://www.lepointdaccroche.com/?Accessoires and coudn't find Bruckner strings there...
Could you please copy the direct link to these strings?
thanks
Robert
| Quote: | Originally posted by francis
Hello suz_i_dil.
I ordered this set of strings to "le point d'accroche" in Paris.
At first it was to change the strings on my cheap "tourist" oud, i'm not satisfied with his sound. This set is supposed to be a bit stronger than the
d'aquila's one which is in place.
This oud is a 61,5 cm stringlength.
On the "Nahat "doubleprice and multirepaired" copy oud" the string length is 60 cm.
The seller chooses the strings you prefer to get the best set possible, and it's two days max to receive it in France...
http://www.lepointdaccroche.com/?Accessoires.
J'espère que cela répond à ton questionnement!
A plus |
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francis
Oud Junkie
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Hello Robert.
When searching a direct link to answer your post , I saw that i didn't give the real name for the strings: I wanted to say Kürschner instead of
Bruckner......my memory failed!...sorry for this error.
I don't have any direct link: I had the discussion by phone with the seller from "le point d'accroche".
Bernd Kürschner
http://www.kuerschner-saiten.de
the string set I bought:
c' Do3 2 NR 5064
g Sol2 2 pvf 5068
d ré2 2VN 5104
A La1 2 VN 5140
G Sol1 2 VN 5155
D Ré1 1 VN 5220
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rojaros
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I thought so.
Thanks very much taking your time
best wishes
Robert
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Hatem_Afandi
Oud Junkie
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Cher Francis,
Je crois que Dr. Atef vous a envoyé une réponse en ce qui concerne ce problème. Il a mentionné que ce problème est normal dans un nouvel
instrument en raison de la technique utilisée pour le construire par le luthier. Tout vous devez faites est attendt. C'est un nouvel instrument avec
les nouvelles ficelles.
Bonne chance,
Hatem
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francis
Oud Junkie
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Bonjour Hatem.
Non, Dr Atef n'a pas envoyé de réponse, donc j'ai cherché par moi-même. Comme il y avait une bosse importante sur le manche mon ami luthier a
arrangé cela et avec les nouvelles cordes ( un peu moins de tirant ) c'est bon.
Merci de votre interêt, Hatem.
(No, Dr Atef didn't answer to my email ( Dr Atef , like Adbelaal Hassanin , don't answer to my mails no more....) , so I searched by myself and with
precious helps here in the forum. An important bump on the neck had to be planed, and with the new set of strings ( those I didn't fix the name in my
memory!) it's right now.
I thank you for your interest, Hatem.)
Cheers,
Francis
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