frao
Oud Lover
Posts: 23
Registered: 3-3-2008
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Our cultural/musical backgrounds
Salaam everyone.
I was contemplating on this for a while and I decided to start a thread regarding this issue.
I don't know how many of you people on this phorum come from oud-playing and maqam-sounding lands and I thought it might be interesting to share
stories how you came to know this instrument and the music you play in general.
I come from Lithuania and my oud story is sort of post-postmodern globalization side effect. I was introduced to oud by an Israeli friend. The rest
came from my travels (mostly in Turkey). I think it mostly will come from my travels in the future as being in a place surrounded by certain sounds,
colors, smells, etc, is something divine, at least in comparison to almighty internet (which had a part in my oud story as well). And then I'm
thinking about the music I play. Mostly I'm fascinated by music of Arabian peninsula but all sorts of styles touch my sensitive nerves as deeply.
Ranging from Turkish to Berber to Saharan to Nubian to Persian to Sufi music (whatever that might be). Also, even if I tried, I wouldn't be able to
deny my Occidental influences. Hence I came up to this idea that it's not worth imitating. The music I play as well as the music I want to play on my
oud is authentic in the spacetime I occupy (here in Lithuania or somewhere I travel). And it will never be pure Arabic or pure Whatever music. It is
something I feel right here and right now.
Some other thing is that I feel so connected to certain feelings, concepts and vibes of the motherlands of oud. I am meditating on Salaam at night and
I remember Dhikr when I feel alienated. That's how I connect myself to Arabic maqams. Trying to imitate Arabic masters would be my own personal
lie.
I'm especially interested in hearing stories of people who aren't from the oud motherlands or who somehow feel ripped out / alienated from those
places (sorry others, you already beat us in your knowledge when it comes to music we love since you grow up hearing it daily .
up for Diogenian cynic naivette!
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Franck
Oud Junkie
Posts: 145
Registered: 8-21-2007
Location: Montréal, Québec
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Mood: No Mood
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Hi,
I am a musician from Québec (Canada) and also a luthier, my main field is Medieval music and intruments.
I've been playing the oud for 5 years now. I started playing with absolutely no knowledge of techniques and playing styles whatsoever. I even played
with a guitar pick in the beginning. After a while a met a Turkish oud master and maker that built an oud for me and I started to watch and hear him
play. He taught me for a very short period of time and he also gave me many hints about building an oud (I am also a luthier). Watching him play also
showed me the Turkish style of oud playing witch is now my main influence. After I also listened to masters of the Arabic oud (every aspect like
Iraqi, Lebanese, Syrian and oud players from the Maghreb) and the of the Persian barbat. I personally think that my style is a melting pot of all
styles with a predominance (and preference) of the Turkish style. I will never be a master in a particular style but my playing has it's own color and
it's a good thing because the oud is a magical instrument that can bring whoever plays it to higher levels of insight and beauty.
That's the way I feel and, thanks to the great masters, we can explore the many avenues of this wonderful instrument that is the oud.
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aytayfun
Oud Junkie
Posts: 201
Registered: 1-28-2006
Location: Türkiye
Member Is Offline
Mood: luthier and player
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Hi Frao
When I was 7 years old my mother bought me a mandolin and I learn to play it by my self. After 3 years my mother again bought me a saz and I again
learn to play it by my self. It was a long necked saz. After 3 years when there was an influence on short necked saz I bought and oud. This was a very
valuable oud (Luthiers Şamlı Selim and İskender 1887 ?). At that time I am not aware of the value of this oud. Then I start to a local
music group in Eskişehir. After two years the neck of my oud dislodged and I had to bought another one. However, the sound is not so good. Then I
looked for good ouds but they cost too much at that time. After years and years, I graduated from medical faculty and have some money to spent for
ouds. So many luthiers, so many ouds around me, however no one satisfied me. A local luthier in my city changed the soundboard of my oud. I watched
him. and bla bla bla like Frank. OH I learned it. But the reality is not like this. It is more complex than I learned by looking. Then again a
research period for me. Masters ouds.! I tried so many of them. Each of them has its own taste but not mine.(Thanks for all masters.) After all years
and ouds and masters, I learned that wood is a real beauty and never lies. It gives al you give to it but it's restricted to the permition of its
structure. I love to play and build ouds. It's my belief that a musician must know how his/her instrument builded. I try to find my style in playing
and building the oud. Cultural differences between us affects our lifestyle and feelings and so the style of thinking and playing. Look at the taksims
of masters. No one can imagine what the master is thinking when performing a taksim. Arabic, Persian Turkish or any others. But the secret of those
masters lie in their culture and it is very simple. Oud is a part of their culture. As you mentioned the music you play as well as the music you want
to play on your oud is authentic. Authentic for what? Is it authentic for your culture. I dont know if oud is authentic for Lithuania (Maybe Cobza)
Than you had to travel and find places where the oud is authentic. Of course it will never be pure Arabic or pure Whatever music. It will be authentic
for the place you visit. In my belief the solution for you is to travel so many countries, inspire the soul of players and luthiers. After than you
can find your way which will be authentic for you.
Be in an play in health.
Regards.
Dr. Tayfun AYDIN
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Donjis3
Oud Addict
Posts: 29
Registered: 9-13-2008
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Mood: No Mood
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Hello!
I've already express what the oud is créating in me in this thread!
http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=8395
I wanted to enter this one cause i'm from near Montréal ,Québec,Canada Too!
I've always fond my self very attracted to foreing instruments and of corse their musical playability..feeling that through music we can get connected
in somes ways!
the oud was very unexpected till as to a very short while I got the prévilège to see and ear a luthe maby 15 years ago..and was amazed!couple years ago my 4 sons grew up in intérests of music...so I started to buy over
our own traditional instruments ,,gibs fen bass fretteless do etc ...then chineese fiddles ...didgéridous.. for them (and me as well)to expériment
and in légacy too!Concerning the oud what attracted me basically was a some kind of a flamenço guitar background..on my guitar...without really
understanding it or why i saw a very cheap one (tourist)egyptian one for sale and went the distance and then ....oh boy....felt like a home comming
sort of...found mike's oud forum got and share I hope a lot of Capitals infos and inner insights and outer growings I just feel prévilège that so
many peoples are so kind in sharing so much infos and progress and stories ...from everywhere ! It's realy amayzing that we are able to live this kind of a beyond gathering of so much  giving peoples! Gratitude,Don!
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frao
Oud Lover
Posts: 23
Registered: 3-3-2008
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Mood: No Mood
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aytayfun: Oh, I've been to Eskişehir two times. Actually I got my one and only oud there. And so many sweet memories about that place besides
that...
However, oud is not authentic to my 'Lithuanian culture'. I think there's no such thing as 'Lithuanian culture'. Quite many of my Turkish friends had
a hard time understanding this because most of them feel connected to their locality. Since I don't count all those national heritage institutions as
forms of local culture. They serve nationalism and politics, not culture. It's not alive. Culture is having it's after-death convulsions inside those
institutions that claim to 'preserve', 'save' or 'revitalize' it. That's why the music I play is authentic to me personally. Also to the friends who
join me playing.
However, at this point I feel attached and attracted to Arabic and Arabic-influenced vibes and it makes me feel like I want and even can play the oud
in my own particular way without fully abandoning it's cultural roots. I'm learning the languages (both Turkish and Arabic) to dig in deeper
up for Diogenian cynic naivette!
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aytayfun
Oud Junkie
Posts: 201
Registered: 1-28-2006
Location: Türkiye
Member Is Offline
Mood: luthier and player
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Thank you very much for your kind considerations about my city and the culture of international oudism. I'm %101 with you.
Dr. Tayfun AYDIN
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shareen
Oud Junkie
Posts: 218
Registered: 8-28-2007
Location: Upstate New York
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Mood: Dreaming
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I first was deeply moved by Arabic music when I was 17 and heard Om Kalthoum on Cairo radio from a Kibbutz I was working at near Acre in the North of
Israel! She came across the airwaves live and it was love at first listen. As a young person, I was attracted to and sought out the culture of the
music that spoke to me. I left the Kibbutz to journey to the Old Cities of Acre and Jerusalem to find the people who were making this incredible
music and felt more attracted to their culture than my own Jewish one. It was there that I was introduced to the oud. Many years later, (in 1988)
when I became a record producer and was hired to produce a project called Christmas all over the world which used music and music and musicians from
all over. I hired Ara Dinkjian to do the oud work representing Christmas in Armenia. It was only in 2005 that I finally bought my own oud in
Istanbul and 2 years later attended Simon Shaheen's Arabic music retreat to learn how to play it and now I cannot put it down! To me, the oud is the
musical diplomat of the world, connecting people and cultures.
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Christian1095
Oud Junkie
Posts: 454
Registered: 4-29-2008
Location: North Carolina, USA
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Mood: No Mood
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Hey Frao,
I'm from such a non-oud playing land that most people I run into don't even know what an Oud is. I think my path towards the Oud may be an anomaly
here since I'm not really drawn to most Arabic/Turkish music.
Earlier this year, my wife started taking Bellydance classes and we went to a local hafla.... It was sort of cool watching the drummers do their
thing... I've never had ANY interest in drums so that was out... But I thought it would be really cool to play an instrument for the wife while she
danced.... So I started looking... I heard the Oud and I've been hooked ever since. Shortly afterwards, I was invited to play music with a friend
who knew someone putting a band together. I had played Bass Guitar as a kid (mostly heavy metal) but I play and learn by ear... At any rate, she got
me hooked up with these guys who were playing at the Renaissance Faire for a bellydance troupe and we met, jammed and now I've had 50+ shows where
I've played the oud live.
The funny thing is that most Arabic and Turkish music does not speak to me at all. But then I learn it on the Oud and it suddenly seems alive and fun
and cool... I'm pretty sure the fault there is my lack of appreciation and not the music itself ... But as I learn more and listen to more my ear
gets a little more developed... But it's certainly NOT a love at first sight relationship and I really struggle.
However, I think it might also be a matter of arrangement. For example I heard a version of Mohamed Abd El Wahab's 'Ahwak' played on Qanun and it
almost made me cry from it's beauty. Then I heard the sung version by Abdel Halim Hafez and I was a lot less impressed. I sounded cheesy and lame by
comparison... But it's got me listening to the songs in a much more critical sense and I'm starting to see more of the beauty in the songs.... But I
have to read between the lines...
So for me, the struggle to "get" the instrument stems from the fact that my ear has had about 6 months of listening to music from the region as
opposed to 35 years of western music. Unlike Shareen's experience, I listened to Om Kalthoum and did not feel moved. However, I watch OudProff's
videos on Youtube of him playing Om Kalthoum songs and I do feel moved... Again, I think the fault lies in my ear an not the music... As I have seen
with the Abd El Wahab song 'Ahwak'
Sometimes I feel like my path towards understanding this instrument is more difficult because I'm having to learn the music without the benefit of
growing up in the culture. So I don't know if I'll ever actually play just like someone from Cairo or from Syria... In fact I'm pretty sure I
won't... But perhaps I'll get to the point where I can recognize the differences in style.... And as I learn more and my ear gets more developed,
perhaps my understanding of the music will change my appreciation.
To give an example of what I'm talking about... Culturally, I guess Bluegrass would be my "native" music... I identify with it and it just sounds
"right" to me.. I imagine someone from an oud-playing country would have a devil of a time understanding and getting the music in the same way that
I'm able to - not through any fault of theirs, but because they didn't grow up around Steamboats, the Ozark and Appalachian mountains, or drinking
Iced tea out of a mason jars.
Chris Walters
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John Erlich
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1463
Registered: 8-26-2004
Location: California, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Oud-Obsessed
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Hi All,
My musical background was as a jazz guitarist and composer. I grew up in a Western city with a very, very weak modern jazz scene, though there was a
huge Dixieland Jazz festival (which I came to loathe). Composing and playing modern jazz constituted my own (semi)private world when I was a
teenager. (I came to rely on my peers' complete ignorance of and disdain for the music to reinforce this sense of privacy.)
Later, as a young adult, I lived in Akko/Akka/Acre for 6 months (in 1993), and that was the experience that finally propelled me into Middle Eastern
music. I lived in mixed neighborhood of Arabs, Israeli Jews of North African ancestry, and recent immigrants from the North Caucasus and Bokhara
(Uzbekistan). I was really captivated by the music at the Arab weddings in the neighborhood, as well as the melodies I heard in the Moroccan
synagogues.
My first exposure to the oud came just before this, though. While I was on Kibbutz Yagur, I somehow missed the bus for a kibbutz trip one morning. I
was up early with nothing else to do, so I hiked up the wadi (dry creek) to 'Isfiyya, a Druze village in the hills above the kibbutz. The only shop
open in the village was the hardware store. They had some music cassettes, so poking through them, I saw one of Farid El Atrache. I noticed the oud
and, as a guitar player, wondered what the instrument would sound like. That was my first purchase of many, many...
Though largely hidden, there are considerable resources for traditional Middle Eastern music among the Israeli Jewish population, and there needs to
be a concerted effort to nurture these traditions and pass them on before the generation born and trained in the Arab and Muslim countries completely
dies out (most of the masters left the Arab World as young men & women around 1950 are now in their 80s). Obviously, much of those resources have
already been lost and this has required Israeli Jews to interact with Palestinian Arabs to regain these musical skills, much as Greeks have had to
look to Turkey to regain their musical skills (Turkey has also proved a key resource for Israelis). I have great deal of appreciation for these
cross-cultural contacts.
Music is truly an international and transcending language...
Not to start an argument here, I have a very hard time believing that there is "no such thing as 'Lithuanian culture'." [Disclosure: I have Baltic
ancestors (Estonia & Latvia) myself, so I'm not completely objective.] I remember my comrades in the American Left often claiming that "the U.S.
has no culture." This is simply not true. The USA does have a culture (and I'm not talking about capitalist pop culture here!), it's just that our
generation is woefully ignorant of it, as in most of the First World. One thing that otherwise "comfortable" First World people have in common with
uprooted populations (Palestinians, Jews of Arab Lands, Asia Minor Greeks, etc.) is that our traditional cultures are endangered.
Peace,
John
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oudplayer
Oud Junkie
Posts: 849
Registered: 5-9-2004
Location: new jersey/ Israel
Member Is Offline
Mood: ouds up
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shalom / salam
thank god i have the best out of the 2 cultures. I am yemeni yahoodi( jewish). not only do i enjoy my religion but i have good middle eastern
cultures. and i think it makes me very rich.
Since i was a little kid (and still little) I alwasy heard arabic music in my hosue, and always sang old yemeni songs. as i got older i started
to play the tabla at family partys until i got sick of it so then i bought a oud. i was the proud one in the family bc i brought the music to the
homes and jamed there. now i am mostly perccusion but i do play oud.
inshallah i wish to go back into yemen buy a home and just live how my family lived 50 years ago plus.( Just a lil hard now)
my borning life.
thx sammy
we are lost camels in the desert and wanna find our way to water and the water is in aden
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shareen
Oud Junkie
Posts: 218
Registered: 8-28-2007
Location: Upstate New York
Member Is Offline
Mood: Dreaming
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John, I am happy to hear you sharing about the culture and music of Jews from Arab lands. I recently tracked party of my CD in Tel Aviv with
Moroccan, Yemeni, Balkan Turkish, Bukhari, and Kurdish Jews as well as an Arab from Nazareth. The Morroccan violinist also sang part of a Torah
portion on one of the songs that was in bayati, the trope for that particular portion. These were all second generation musicians but they were very
aware, proud and connected to their Arab heritage. Have you been to the fantastic CD store in Jaffa by the clock tower? He's bootlegged every great
Arabic music CD I think that was ever made! I think the owner is Iraqi. Just like our young generation of jazz players, there is a young generation
of Israelis who are keeping the traditions too.
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oudplayer
Oud Junkie
Posts: 849
Registered: 5-9-2004
Location: new jersey/ Israel
Member Is Offline
Mood: ouds up
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shareen
jaffa near the water tower? i know that shop very well. there are a few there but those store are like walmart in america. they are everywhere. they
are 10 sheckels a cd , you cant beat that ($2:50 or so)
when i lived in israel a few years ago i shipped a large box of cds to my dad bc it weighed about 20 lbs lol man i love bootleg cds HAHA.
shareen i now want to go to jaffa and walk around man i miss it. weather and everytign there is amaazing plus i have famiyl there maybe 15
minute walk form jaffa, on jabutinzky st. near the ebach side.
good times
thx sammy
we are lost camels in the desert and wanna find our way to water and the water is in aden
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John Erlich
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1463
Registered: 8-26-2004
Location: California, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Oud-Obsessed
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Hi Sammy & Shareen,
I think the shop by the Jaffa clock tower is called "Azoulay."
Oh man, what memories...buying cassettes and CDs at that shop (and others, and shipping TWO boxes home!)...eating North African food at Doctor
Shakshuka...snacking on 'aish b'il z'atar from Aboulafia bakery...
Also, Heze's (unnamed) shop in the Shuk Hatikva in the "Schkhunat Hatikva" neighborhood of T.A. is not to be missed by true aficionados. Heze has
what is probably the only extensive stock to be found in the country of Arabic music recorded by immigrant Jews from Arab countries.
On the Palestinian side, the Jerusalem Book Shop, which has (last time I was there in 2000) 3 shops in the Muslim Quarter of Jerusalem which, in
addition to the usual inexpensive cassetttes of classic Arabic popular and folk music, has some pretty good Arabic "art" music cassettes and CDs.
Clearly, it's been way too long since I've visited!
Shalom/Salaam/Peace,
John
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Tom Moran
Oud Maniac
Posts: 69
Registered: 11-16-2008
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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Christian,
I'm with you. Pittsburgh is a virtual oud-free zone. You're making a WHAT???
I wouldn't be so quick on the bluegrass thing, though. Being oudless, I'm testing things on fretless banjo in a sawmill tuning as it shares that
tuning with the oud's top D,G,C. I feel like Alice falling down the rabbit hole.
Tom
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shareen
Oud Junkie
Posts: 218
Registered: 8-28-2007
Location: Upstate New York
Member Is Offline
Mood: Dreaming
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Yes, John it's Azoulay. Got some great stuff there last year. Filled a suitcase full. Mostly of Morroccan and Jewish Iraqi music. I also am
familiar with those shops in the old city. Got some vintage Munir Bashir there, some old Marcel Khalife, from the 70's and some Farid CDs. Once he
knows what you like you can spend hours in there and he plays music for you and serves you coffee. Makes more sales that way. Wish that
relationships between Palestinians and Israelis or Arabs and Israelis were as wonderful as those times we have in a purely musical world! John, I was
on Kibbutz Yasur, not far from Yagur, when I heard Om Kalthum. Went back and forth to Acre weekly. We seem to have had the same lightbulb go on.
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muhrvis
Oud Lover
Posts: 10
Registered: 3-29-2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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Greetings all.
Here's my story. I am a white boy from Detroit! I've always had some proficiency
on piano, guitar, and drums, and always enjoyed listening to music from around the world. But I never had a lot of exposure to music from the Middle
East or Turkey specifically.
My wife, a social worker, worked for an after-school activities program in Hamtramck, Michigan. As you might know, Detroit has a large populace from
the Middle East, and Hamtramck is home to a lot of Yemeni immigrants. We became close friends with the family of one of her students. It changed our
lives, opening our minds and hearts to a culture we'd never experienced.
When the family visited Yemen a few years ago, I half-jokingly asked them to bring back an oud for me. Wouldn't you know it, the generosity in their
hearts was even bigger than my sense of humor, and they purchased an oud for me! Off the streets of San'a or Ib, I guess. Somehow it survived the trip
back from Yemen via Germany in a soft case -- they must have looked after it!
Well, I couldn't figure out how to tune or play it, even with the good information on the web. But ironically when we moved to Oregon, I ran into an
oud teacher here and began to take lessons.
There is something deeply spiritual to me about playing the oud, I treasure it and it has changed my life. I know this sounds trite, but when I play,
I see the majesty of history, hear the possibility of peace, and feel the joy and pain of what it means to be human. I recently was lucky enough to
purchase a Ghadban oud, because I thought I needed to get a more sophisticated instrument to progress. But I'll never sell my original Yemeni oud as
long as I live. It means more to me than any small amount of money could.
I'll post some pictures and sound bites of my wonderful Ghadban (it is a big Nahat replica) as soon as I have time.
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John Erlich
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1463
Registered: 8-26-2004
Location: California, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Oud-Obsessed
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Hi Muhrvis,
I spent my first 8 years in Ann Arbor; my dad was a professor of Social Work at U. of M. from 1965 to 1973. Ironically, my family had its first
significant encounter with Middle Eastern culture in the small city in Northern California, where we moved in 1973. My older sisters studied dance
with a Lebanese woman. (Although it turns out that our neighbor in Ann Arbor was a prominent Arabic scholar [Dr. David Partington]!) I'm sorry I
never had a chance to explore and appreciate that cultural element in southeast Michigan. (My wife's cousin spent a year in Dearborn a couple of
years ago, so I brow-beat her into checking out Arabic restaurants there!)
Oakland, California also has a sizable Yemeni community, and I have received a great deal of inspiration from the cheap cassettes of Yemeni
vocal/oud/percussion music (Fuad El Kibsy, Ayyub Tarish, etc.) that used to be available in the Arabic groceries here.
Congrats on the Ghadban!
Peace,
John
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