| Pages:
1
2 |
adamgood
Oud Junkie
Posts: 499
Registered: 6-27-2005
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Member Is Offline
Mood: 2.7 koma flat
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by maran
| Quote: | Originally posted by Edward Powell
| Quote: | Originally posted by adamgood
by the way, Kadri Sencalar was the first kind of ud teacher for both Necati Celik and Nuri Karademirli. |
any recordings of Kadri kicking around? I never heard of him! |
There were two Sencalar brothers, Kadri played ud and Ismail played kanun. I have some solo recordings of Kadri playing taksims and a few ciftetellis
that I took from some 45s that came my way. I'll try to upload to a file sharing site.
Btw this cd has Kadri playing with Ahmet Yatman and others:
http://www.tulumba.com/storeItemSmlr.asp?ic=MU9399155VY898&
Actually even though this is an ud forum I have some recordings of Yatman that I want to upload because the guy was a frickin' MONSTER of the kanun
|
Maran, I'm pretty sure I have the same recordings of taksims and ciftetelis that you mention. I think I got it from Mavrothis. I keep misplacing it in
my house, never ripped it to my computer and every 8 months it turns up again. Just a few days ago I saw it lying somewhere, now where's that darn
CD?
Check out the attached photo, this was in Konya in 1972. A very young Necati Celik and Kadri Senceler. Playing Ayin or something? Abdi Coskun on
tanbur in the front left.
|
|
|
Butrous
Oud Maniac
Posts: 60
Registered: 12-23-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Is this photo of a "sufi" event for tourist or foreigners?
|
|
|
maran
Oud Junkie
Posts: 103
Registered: 9-23-2003
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
I uploaded my Kadri files. These are from old 45s:
http://www.box.net/shared/aoooyc035n
|
|
|
Multi Kulti
Oud Junkie
Posts: 252
Registered: 1-27-2004
Member Is Offline
Mood: skaataa!
|
|
Thank you very much Maran for the files..
I must say Kadri Sencalar is one of my favourites for his style (a lot of piyaca in his playing).I always loved the way he analyzed his
taksims...soulfull not only technik.
By the way i remember from a discussion i had with Yurdal Tokcan some years ago that he told me,when he was a student in University the teachers used
to tell them not to follow the style of Sencalar because it was not "classical".
Classical or not it rocks 
Nikos
|
|
|
maran
Oud Junkie
Posts: 103
Registered: 9-23-2003
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by Multi Kulti
I must say Kadri Sencalar is one of my favourites for his style (a lot of piyaca in his playing).I always loved the way he analyzed his
taksims...soulfull not only technik.
Nikos |
What do you mean by "lot of piyaca", like a street style or something?
I have recordings of Hrant playing those same two ciftetellis (Bahriye and Eski Istanbul). I uploaded them here:
http://www.box.net/shared/647tetuhfu
These are not available on any of the commercially available Hrant compilations. Listen to what he does at 1:57 of Eski Istanbul Ciftetelli. Also
there's a Hicaz taksim, hicaz was his specialty.
Sorry we got off Bacanos here. I have some of him too (not commercially available) that I will try to post.
|
|
|
Multi Kulti
Oud Junkie
Posts: 252
Registered: 1-27-2004
Member Is Offline
Mood: skaataa!
|
|
Yes maran with piyaca (i dont know if i write it right..they call it like these the turkish players) i mean the "street style" but no in bad way.
Udi Hrant is one of these players too..very nice recordings you have there !
By the way this solo Eski Istanbul Cifteteli must be one of the favourites of Hrant. I have one or two recordings with the same "pattern" by him always nice to listen to it.
|
|
|
Edward Powell
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1212
Registered: 1-20-2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: g'oud
|
|
Kadri Sencalar is really a great player! I had never heard of him before.
Is he a contemporary of Hrant and Bacanos? ...any others from this generation we should know about?
|
|
|
mavrothis
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1674
Registered: 6-5-2003
Location: NJ/NYC
Member Is Offline
Mood: big band envy
|
|
Yes, I believe Sencalar was 1 year older than Bacanos.
I've heard that due to this seniority, and that Bacanos was considered a more technical player while Sencalar was seen as more emotive, that when
Sencalar would come to a rehearsal or performance of the radio orchestra Bacanos would leave his ud and go to the piano (to make way for Sencalar).
Of course, I am very moved by Bacanos' playing, but I think I can see why some would prefer Sencalar's playing over Bacanos'. I personally love both,
but am most impressed by Bacanos. This may be because Sencalar's playing is closer to what I'm familiar with, while Bacanos is something very unique,
intense, and very clear in his interpretation of the makams.
mavrothis
|
|
|
Ararat66
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1025
Registered: 11-14-2005
Location: Portsmouth, UK
Member Is Offline
Mood: mellow yellow
|
|
Thanks for the Udi Hrant pieces, how can I get hold of these unavailable tracks and others.
I agree with Mav on Bacanos, there is something very individual and unique about his playing - its definately not just fast and technical as I have
sen some people describe his playing and he gets under the skin of the taksims.
Leon
|
|
|
maran
Oud Junkie
Posts: 103
Registered: 9-23-2003
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by Ararat66
Thanks for the Udi Hrant pieces, how can I get hold of these unavailable tracks and others.
I agree with Mav on Bacanos, there is something very individual and unique about his playing - its definately not just fast and technical as I have
sen some people describe his playing and he gets under the skin of the taksims.
Leon |
The tracks I posted here came from old 45s that either my grandparents brought here from Turkey when they immigrated or from other people who gave
them to me because they were getting rid of their stuff and knew I would be interested. I have also been given some recordings from Kanuni Jack
Chalikian who is the kanun player on the Richard Hagopian and Hachig Kazarian Kef Time albums. He has been a great mentor for me teaching me Turkish
classical repertoire and Armenian traditional music (the 10/8s etc) which he knows very well (his parents knew Hrant from Adapazar and Hrant stayed in
his house on his trips to the US from Turkey). He has a lot of recordings of the old timers though most of it needs to be digitized. But I think
there is probably still a lot you can find if you ask around the community. For example recently my sister's in-laws gave me some stuff they
inherited. It might be harder in the UK though.
|
|
|
Ararat66
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1025
Registered: 11-14-2005
Location: Portsmouth, UK
Member Is Offline
Mood: mellow yellow
|
|
Hi Maran
I'd love to hear some of those!! not so easy to find over here.
Leon
|
|
|
adamgood
Oud Junkie
Posts: 499
Registered: 6-27-2005
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Member Is Offline
Mood: 2.7 koma flat
|
|
Maran, maybe those were 78s, not 45s? Wow man great if you have a collection going. It will be very worth it to digitize some day soon.
A few years ago I got into checking ebay for old 78s of Turkish music and in general it's all very expensive. Some Tanburi Cemil Bey would turn
up...forget it, something like $150+ were the final prices. I'm relatively happy to have the CD reissues.
|
|
|
Marina
Oud Junkie
Posts: 615
Registered: 9-1-2005
Location: Bosnia
Member Is Offline
Mood: Enthusiastic
|
|
Mav & anybody,
can you describe why the playing of Sencalar is "not classical". In Arabic oud playing it seems more clear to me - the line between folk player &
classical one, but here I am not sure why is it "not classical".
Thanks
|
|
|
mavrothis
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1674
Registered: 6-5-2003
Location: NJ/NYC
Member Is Offline
Mood: big band envy
|
|
Hi,
I don't agree that Sencalar's playing is not classical, whatever that really means. But what was said might have referred to his more liberal (not so
strict) playing of makams - maybe not, maybe it was just referring to his playing style. Either way, I think it's a matter of opinion, not some
general fact we all would agree on.
Though the well-known players of the early 20th century each had their own unique style, they all had a way of phrasing, pausing, etc that was
similar. There seems to be an underlying style, or "accent" at least, from that time.
My opinion is that what modern players refer to as "classical" is really the playing style of Cinucen Tanrikorur, who came later and has influenced
most of the contemporary players to a great degree.
I have a feeling that this is similar in Arabic music too. The fact is that folk, urban, and classical or court playing have always been intertwined
until relatively recently - just take a look at Tanburi Cemil Bey. His playing and compositions were often very closely tied to folk music.
There definitely seems to be a prejudice against many of the great players of the past, because they are considered too "folky." But I think that
this is a mistaken view, and one that hurts the general playing pool of musicians.
If we all try to sound like Tanrikorur, Celik, and Tokcan, then what's the point of playing at all? Why not try to emulate Bacanos, Nevres Bey,
Sencalar, Hrant, Udi Ibrahim, etc...? I don't mean we should copy anyone completely of course (I don't even think that's really possible), but mixing
in older styles can only enrich your playing, especially since folk, urban, and court/classical music were all a much more REAL part of everyday life
then than they are now.
That's how I feel anyway.
m
|
|
|
Edward Powell
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1212
Registered: 1-20-2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: g'oud
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by Ararat66
Thanks for the Udi Hrant pieces, how can I get hold of these unavailable tracks and others.
I agree with Mav on Bacanos, there is something very individual and unique about his playing - its definately not just fast and technical as I have
sen some people describe his playing and he gets under the skin of the taksims.
Leon |
me2!!!
He is my fav!
I have analysed his taksims and slowed them down electronically and what is seems so special is that what he seems to be doing is something like
Cinucen style with all the charpmas and full decoration, but at 78speed!
Rather, most "fast" players just do straight picking very fast and eliminate the stylistic decorations the faster they go.
|
|
|
Ararat66
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1025
Registered: 11-14-2005
Location: Portsmouth, UK
Member Is Offline
Mood: mellow yellow
|
|
I agree with you on this Mav - well, there is also this idea that 'old' means something dated and conservative but going back to Udi Hrant because I
happened to be on a long car ride the other day on my own (so I can listen to what I want as loud as I want:xtreme, on 'The early recordings volume 1' I was really struck by how 'way out' some of this
stuff is. Once you get past the 'vintage' sound imagine what it would have been like face to face??
These guys were really exploring the tonal and particularly the modal paculiarities of the makams in astonishingly candid and avant garde ways. Two
that struckme were his Suzinak Taksim and Saba Taksim.
There is no trickery here, no 'sound bytes' but real out-there exploration, when its so easy to get hung up on technical wizadry.
If you get a chance to hear these I recommend them also.
Leon
|
|
|
| Pages:
1
2 |
![[*]](images/xmbprobrown/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
