danieletarab
Oud Junkie
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turkish ouds..
hello everybody!
it seems that lots of turkish ouds have often the soundboard not flat\ and so they often produce "buzz" when you play them.
Somebody told me that this may depend on the braces: they are loose, or too weak..
I heard several people complaining about that and I wonder why this may happen! As I wrote in another post, I had a Nisadir oud for a while, now I am
sending it back to the shop.
I showed it to several instruments makers (not oud makers) and all of them told me that it's very well built, with very good woods etc but at the same
time they think that there's a problem at the braces (even if they should need to work on it to really understand the problem).
I know at least other 10 people that had the same problem with turkish ouds (buzz), and some of them, to eliminate buzz make the strings pass on the
bridge (to get an higher action from the bridge)!!!!
Why do lots of turkish makers make such a stupid mistake?
DOn't they care enough about braces?
I saw lots of touristic ouds from egypt (very <b>shoot</b>ty sound) and none of them had this problem..
Could anyone help me to understand?
thank you!!!
daniele
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suz_i_dil
Oud Junkie
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A problem of low action and loose brace are 2 different issue.
Passing the strings up the bridge would not resolve any problem of loose brace, but only a problem of string action.
Indeed a smooth metallic sound may occure when the action is low, some players like this kind of sound and indeed often turkish oud have a lower
action...then it is a subjective and a personnal preference. Also, unadapted strings on a low action may become a disaster, if the tension is too
low....for the 10 people you are talking about it is possible an adapted string tension would have resolved the problem ( for exemple if they were
using ready made arabic set on a turkish oud, turkish ouds being shorter in stringlength).
It is really a matter of taste, and nothing to do with a mistake. Listen for exemple to Hazem Shaheen, I am pretty sure he has a very low action on
his oud.
Out of a matter of sound, it is also much more comfortable to play.
The other problem you are talking about, loose brace, is different and may occure on any oud, arabic like turkish. For exemple I had an oud from a
good arabic maker a while ago which get a crack, then after being repared a brace get loose...it was sounding like if I had put on it sympathic
strings. Allright the brace became loose from the crack, but just to say a problem may occure from many maker...And whatever his nationality.
Good luck in your search.
Regards
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paulO
Oud Junkie
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In addition to suz_i_dil's remarks: wear on the fingerboard over time will cause buzzing as well -- the E half-flat in Rast for instance that's used
in bayati as well, will cause wear in the fingerboard at that spot and eventually cause buzzing; that' when you take it to your oud repairman to fix
it for you. As the instrument ages thing will change, and you'll have to deal with the issues, and if you don't have access to somebody who builds
ouds, or is familiar with ouds (not guitars, violins, etc.), then you might want to get a copy of Richard Hankey's Oud Construction book -- just to
show to whoever is going to work on it.
Cheers...PaulO
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danieletarab
Oud Junkie
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thank you guys..
So, if I have understood well, the problem could be in the kind of strings and tuning..
Actually I am going to Istanbul to get a new oud, but I use arabic tuning (C as smallest string)\ Can I do that? or I will have always problems as
long as I will use turkish ouds instead of arabic ones?
And anyway, which kind of strings you suggest to use for turkish ouds (I use La Bella)?
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paulO
Oud Junkie
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Faruk Turunz has made quite a few ouds especially for the lower arabic tuning. There's a bunch of youtube videos of folks playing these ouds, and they
do seem to sound pretty good.
I've used LaBella strings on and off for years (since 1974) -- for awhile they were the only game in town. Currently I use the music caravan stings
from Hank Levin http://www.musicaravan.com -- they're moderately priced, and Hank's local for me so it makes things easy.
Regards..Paul
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Edward Powell
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Generally Turkish players use much lower action than Arabic player - period! Extremely low action of well part of the Turkish sound. Furthermore the
way of Turkish ornamentation is made much easier and more beautiful with very low action.
Arabs use a much more heavy handed - particularly the right hand - technique which does not lend itself well to extremely low action.
If you are not partularly into Turkish technique then going with slightly higher action might be better.
The thing about extremely low action is that if you have that then the fingerboard must be extremely well flattened, because any irregularities will
cause an unwanted buzzing. Also, those who use such low action must have their fingerboards sanded flat very regularly -
- - -
another thing perhaps worth mentioning is that an ouds soundboard can have a tendency to either swell upwards or downwards over time under the string
tension. Faruk spent a lot of time explaining this to me and about the extreme measures they need to take in order to get the direction of the
eventual inevitable soundboard deformation to go DOWNWARD and not upward (which will cause bad buzzing). Basically before the soundboard is glued on
the edges of the bowl not be completely flat - rather there needs to be a slight "dip" to "encourage" to proper direction of the soundboard
deformation.
Faruk has an enormous contraption that looks like something out of the mideval torcher chamber... they put the oud body into this and clamp it in....
then they can cut this dip with micromillimetre precision... therefore Faruks ouds can achieve rediculously low action (like yurdal's at about
1.2mm!) and not experience unpleasant buzzing.
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gravesmo
Oud Lover
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Turkish style is softer than Arabic, and uses multiplications frequently. İncreasing the distance between strings and keyboard or the resistance
of strings may decrease the buzzing but it may have negative effects to playing in Turkish style. Turkish players does not back out of emotion despite
buzzing. Many turkish luthiers may produce non-buzzing arabic style ouds if you denote your choice. Regards..
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danieletarab
Oud Junkie
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Thanks a lot to everybody. You have been very helpful\
I will let you know!
daniele
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