Noel
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Left-handed Ouds
Hi....forgive my ignorance, but are ouds symetrically braced, etc.? I`m considering purchasing one, but being left-handed is a pain in the arse! What
is a reasonable price for a half-decent one? Any comments would be most welcome...thanks in advance
N.
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Elie Riachi
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The ouds I have seen so far are symmetrical enough in the bracing and shape that it will not affect the sound when strung for left-handed playing.
However, I have read somewhere that some ouds (not common) have a shape which makes them easier to hold in the right-handed playing position.
Oud prices, cheap Syrian $40 in Middle-East (my experience, tuning pegs must be refitted) others run from $150 to $400 and beyond. I think you get
what you pay for most of the time.
For starting out, I would go with a mid-range priced oud that stays in tune and is easy to tune -- in otherwords pegs are well fitted.
I'm sure there are other members of this forum who could add more to this.
Good luck,
Elie
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nadir
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Definitely get one that's around $300, but look around before getting one, people get ripped off real easily.
My advice is to not get what is known as a "tourist oud" these are the cheapest quality ones and you will love to hate them!  I sure did...
My friend here in Dubai is lefty and he just switched the pegs and strings around, no problems there! All the best.
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kaissi
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Hi Noel,
I am a left handed oud player. I have a Shehata oud and a Ahmed Abdul Halim oud. They both sound and play great. The Ahmed oud is less
expensive.Holding the oud feels tha same as if you are a right handed player. If you are shopping for a new left handed oud, then I strongly suggest
contacting Raffat at the Nile Shop. I got both of my ouds from him.He is an honest person and he will treat you right.He is the person to talk to
about left handed ouds.
I hope this helped. Good Luck!!!
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Dr. Oud
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While it is true enough that the crudely made cheap ouds are symetric, quality ouds are definitely not. The bracing and/or face thickness and/or
stiffness are adjusted subtly to balance volume across the span of bass to treble strings. The differences are inside the oud and may not be apparent
to the untrained eye even if you look inside. I have a commission for a lefty oud that will be built with design specifications from Hana Nahat',
1910 model. Violins, guitars, all stringed instruments are built with slight variations in the bracing or thickness to balance the sound The Kasha
guitar design took this approach to achieve extraordinary levels of response.
http://www.jthbass.com/kasha.html
The shape of ouds are very symmetric however.
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Elie Riachi
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Dr. Oud
While it is true enough that the crudely made cheap ouds are symetric, quality ouds are definitely not. The bracing and/or face thickness and/or
stiffness are adjusted subtly to balance volume across the span of bass to treble strings. The differences are inside the oud and may not be apparent
to the untrained eye even if you look inside. I have a commission for a lefty oud that will be built with design specifications from Hana Nahat',
1910 model. |
Hi Dr. Oud,
Is your oud construction book based on this asymmetric design?
Can you tell me how to determine this asymmetry of face and bracing?
How big of a difference such asymmetry makes in sound and price?
Best regards,
Elie
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Elie Riachi
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Hi Noel,
I would like to add that If you decide to restring a right-handed oud for left-handed playing, you will also have to change the nut with one which has
the correct groove width cut in it for each string gauge.
Good luck
Elie
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Dr. Oud
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Elie Riachi
Hi Dr. Oud,
Is your oud construction book based on this asymmetric design?
Can you tell me how to determine this asymmetry of face and bracing?
How big of a difference such asymmetry makes in sound and price?
Best regards,
Elie |
The Nahat brace design appears to be symmetrical, so the asymettry must be in the face thickness or stiffness. I did not include these features in the
first edition of the book but I intend to include the various assymetric characteristics in the second edition. The brace design of the Turkish master
oud maker Manol is significantly off center toward the treble side. The intention is to stiffen the treble side slightly and allow the bass side to
vibrate more freely in order to balance the volume of the frequency response of the face.
The asymmetric features are very subtle in the Nahat design, and without any record I must theorize. I have observed that Nahats often had mismatched
face panels, which seemed mysterious to me at first. If you bend different pieces of tonewood you will find a widely varying degree of stiffness in
even identical pieces. The thickness of the face is also variable, but very little, on the order of 1/4 - 1/2 mm. Knowing the superior tone
production of Nahat ouds, I deduced that they used this variable stiffness/thickness to achieve the balance. Manol on the other hand used matched
pieces of spruce for his ouds, but fabricated the braces off center. It would be difficult to measure the complete profile of the braces with the face
mounted.
The balance of volume makes a significant difference in both the sound and playability of an oud. When the volume is balanced the harmonic frequencies
promote better resonance to enhance the tone of individual strings. With balanced volume you are free from compensating your mizrab stroke to manually
balance the tone, plucking harder on the weak strings and lighter on the stronger ones.
I cannot vouch for all oud makers but I believe that the better hand made ouds are built with these features. You won't find them in the mass
produced cheap ouds. Contact your oud maker personally to determine if they use the asymmetrical design principles and what their prices are.
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Elie Riachi
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Hi Dr. Oud,
First, I would like to thank you for this information. Few questions come to mind;
Will you have these asymmetric designs as an update availble to people who bought the first edition (like myself)?
Could the absence of this asymmetry in run-of-the-mill ouds be compensated for by using certain gauge strings where the tension of the bass strings is
appropriately higher to make them louder?
Best regards,
Elie
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kaissi
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Hi guys, I said that Raafat is at the nileshop, but he actually is at Egyptian lines. Sorry for the mistake .
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Dr. Oud
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Elie Riachi
(Dr. Oud,)
Will you have these asymmetric designs as an update availble to people who bought the first edition (like myself)?
Could the absence of this asymmetry in run-of-the-mill ouds be compensated for by using certain gauge strings where the tension of the bass strings is
appropriately higher to make them louder?
Best regards,
Elie |
I will make all updates in the second edition available for previous buyers to download. I plan to have the Manol and Bashir designs available as
well, but they will be optional plans, not included in the base price of the oud book.
The guage of the strings makes the tension and relative pitch of each string produce it's note. The string produces the fundamental soundwave all
by itself, remember. Guaging the strings can help balance the volume and I do this myself with my own ouds. I know that Jameel has changed the guage
of individual strings on his oud to improve the sound. The reaction of the face that adds harmonic overtones is enhanced by the asymmetric structure.
I only recently came to realize this principle myself, and didn't have the idea developed for the Nahat oud at the time of the book's first
publication. It was reinforced recently as I got a 1902 Manol to restore. When I measured the braces it all came together.
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Elie Riachi
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Hi Dr. oud,
Thanks for offering the updates for download and I am interested in the optional plans.
As for your discovery of the asymmetrical design, wow! It might have been easy to discard as a deffect in manufacturing.
I recently started experimenting with string tensions and fundemantal frequencies to obtain the desired loudness. My measurements have been very
close to theoretical predictions from using the proper equations. According to my calculation, for the scale length of my oud; when using the
D'Addrio J47 set for classical guitar and discarding the first string (the lightest gauge) and use NYL054 string for the bass on the oud, the
tension will climb from 12.32 lb to 14.62 lb when the oud is tunned to C4G3D3A2F2C2 (high to low pitch). The thicker strings having higher tensions.
Hopefully this will be enough to compensate for the lack of the asymmetry. But I will not know untill I restring it as for now I have only used oud
string sets, which judging from the gauges I would say they are for Turkish ouds even though they are labeled Arabic.
Now this selection of string gauges is different from the oud string sets that I have seen offered from the different manufacturers (even the ones
labeled for Arabic Oud.) I based my calculations on mass per unit length of the stringusing data provided by the manufacturer and some measurements I
did myself.
Regards,
Elie
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Mike
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Hey guys,
Very interesting thread. So Doc, just switching the pegs around and restringing could have a big effect on sound I take it. Who'da thunk? 
Thanks guys,
Mike
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Elie Riachi
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Hi Mike,
I do not see that it would make a difference if the oud lacks the asymmetry my friend.
Best regards,
Elie
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Dr. Oud
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Mike
So Doc, just switching the pegs around and restringing could have a big effect on sound I take it. Who'da thunk?
Mike |
Switching strings on an oud with symmetrical structure would not make a difference. If you did it on a fine Turkish oud built with the Manol brace
design, I believe it would. As for a Nahat or other master made Arabic ouds, you would have to experiment, as I don't have enough evidence to say
for certain what the structure of your oud is.
I'm basing my idea on the asymmetric structure of Manol ouds, violins (sound post & bass bar), the Kasha guitar and other stringed
instruments that use this kind of approach. I may not be able to expain it clearly but the facts are evident. Balancing by calculation of tension
alone factors out the structure of the face, and calculated values must be tested and adjusted by actual results. Very small changes in string guage
can affect the volume and tone of the string. Larger guaged strings also change the tonal characteristics of the sound as well, so the oud may sound
different, although louder in the process. It's a balancing act of many factors. The oud is such a delicate structured instrument that extremely
small variations in string guage, face thickness , brace size, shape and location can affect the sound dramatically.
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