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Reda Aouad
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| Quote: | Originally posted by tchandler
Hey Eliot,
can Lilypond do the Arabic half flat with the bar through the stem? Or is it only the backwards flat?
thanks
tom |
Yes I've managed to do it.. but Eliot's method didn't work.. maybe he's using an older version..
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Reda Aouad
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Ed.. if you're using Windows.. take a look at C:\Program Files\LilyPond\usr\share\lilypond\current\ly\makam.ly which you have to include.. tell me if
you need more help..
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Edward Powell
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Yes... Vista
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Edward Powell
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Reda Aouad
Ed.. if you're using Windows.. take a look at C:\Program Files\LilyPond\usr\share\lilypond\current\ly\makam.ly which you have to include.. tell me if
you need more help.. |
the above link does not seems to work......??
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Reda Aouad
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It's not a weblink.. open the file from your computer.. the file name is "makam.ly" and you can find it under the directory "C:\Program
Files\LilyPond\usr\share\lilypond\current\ly" unless you changed the default installation path..
Or from Notepad.. File->Open and paste in the file name the following: C:\Program Files\LilyPond\usr\share\lilypond\current\ly\makam.ly
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Edward Powell
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oh....cool!
I got it open in NOTEPAD 
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Reda Aouad
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Man this software has bugs.. I have my key set to \key d \bayati.. and everything is good.. until I add a measure and it gives me an error: warning:
No ordering for key signature alterations. I remove the one measure I added and everything works well again 
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Edward Powell
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hmmmmm..... my guess is that Adam and Eliot have got it figured out for Turkish. We gotta pick those guys brains. Find out what LILYPOND versions
they are using and where they are getting the help files for Turkish comas.....
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FastForward
Oud Junkie
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I got it done with a bit of modifications of the arabic.ly
here is the modified arabic.ly file
| Quote: |
\version "2.12.0"
\include "italiano.ly"
%%%%%%%
%
% Definition of "dwn" symbol in order to draw the half flat symbol
% that is more often used in Arabic music (A b with a slash across),
% rather than the reverse b symbol that is used by LilyPond.
% The method was contributed by Valentin Villenave on the LilyPond Forum
%
% http://www.mail-archive.com/lilypond-user@gnu.org/msg34244.html
%
% Exchange on 17 January 2008
%
% Updated based on email advice 10 July 2008, by Neil Puttock
%
%
% Example
%
% dod dob dosd \dwn dob dobsb dodsd do
%
dwn = {
\once \override Voice.Accidental #'stencil = #(lambda (grob)
(ly:stencil-combine-at-edge
(ly:accidental-interface::print grob) Y UP
(grob-interpret-markup grob (markup #:line
(#:fontsize -1 (#:musicglyph "flags.ugrace")))) -1.3 0))
}
makamGlyphs = #`((1 . "accidentals.doublesharp")
(3/4 . "accidentals.sharp.slashslashslash.stemstem")
(1/2 . "accidentals.sharp")
(1/4 . "accidentals.sharp.slashslash.stem")
(0 . "accidentals.natural")
(-1/4 . "accidentals.flat.slash")
(-1/2 . "accidentals.flat")
(-3/4 . "accidentals.flat.slashslash")
(-1 . "accidentals.flatflat"))
\layout {
\context {
\Score
\override KeySignature #'glyph-name-alist = \makamGlyphs
\override Accidental #'glyph-name-alist = \makamGlyphs
\override AccidentalCautionary #'glyph-name-alist = \makamGlyphs
\override TrillPitchAccidental #'glyph-name-alist = \makamGlyphs
\override AmbitusAccidental #'glyph-name-alist = \makamGlyphs
}
}
% the arabic maqam groups
bayati = #`(
(0 . 0)
(1 . ,SEMI-FLAT)
(2 . ,FLAT)
(3 . 0)
(4 . 0)
(5 . ,FLAT)
(6 . ,FLAT)
)
kurd = #`(
(0 . 0)
(1 . ,FLAT)
(2 . ,FLAT)
(3 . 0)
(4 . 0)
(5 . ,FLAT)
(6 . ,FLAT)
)
rast = #`(
(0 . 0)
(1 . 0)
(2 . ,SEMI-FLAT)
(3 . 0)
(4 . 0)
(5 . 0)
(6 . ,SEMI-FLAT)
)
sikah = #`(
(0 . 0)
(1 . ,SEMI-FLAT)
(2 . ,SEMI-FLAT)
(3 . ,SEMI-SHARP)
(4 . 0)
(5 . ,SEMI-FLAT)
(6 . ,SEMI-FLAT)
)
iraq = #`(
(0 . 0)
(1 . ,SEMI-FLAT)
(2 . ,SEMI-FLAT)
(3 . 0)
(4 . ,SEMI-FLAT)
(5 . ,SEMI-FLAT)
(6 . ,SEMI-FLAT)
)
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and here is a sample file
| Quote: |
\include "arabic_modified3.ly"
% \include "arabic.ly"
\score {
\relative re' {
\set Staff.extraNatural = ##f
\set Staff.autoBeaming = ##f
\key re \bayati
\time 10/8
re4 re'8 re16 [misb re do] sisb [la sisb do] re4 r8
re16 [misb do re] sisb [do] la [sisb sol8] la [sisb] do [re] misb
fa4 fa16 [misb] misb8. [re16] re8 [misb] re [do] sisb
do4 sisb8 misb16 [re do sisb] la [do sisb la] la4 r8
}
\header {
title = "Semai Muhayer"
composer = "Jamil Bek"
}
}
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attached is the pdf output.
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Edward Powell
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wow! what is all this???!
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FastForward
Oud Junkie
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I forgot to mention that the modified arabic.ly file was saved as arabic_modified3.ly in the local folder containing the file I was editying "tmp.ly".
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Reda Aouad
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Well i did the same.. but wrote it all again by myself.. for the notes to be DO RE MI.. and the accidental.flat.slash character.. and defining some
extra maqams and stuff.. but same result..
Thanks anyway 
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adamgood
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Edward are you still having problems making midi file? I just tried it with the latest stable version and midis no problem.
Attached find a file i use to create many midi files in various Turkish transpositions (first one should be Bolahenk)
Put the file in the same directory as your .ly file and drop this line into the bottom of one of your files, should work:
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% MIDI output below %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
\include "makam-midi-create.ly"
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eliot
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In the same directory as the scores I'm making, I have a file called makamheader.ly (attached, hopefully, below).
A sample showing a few tetrachords:
| Quote: |
\include "makamheader.ly"
\header{
}
#(set-default-paper-size "a4")
\score {
\relative {
\time 4/4
#(set-accidental-style 'voice)
\override Accidental #'glyph-name-alist = \makamGlyphs
\override Staff.KeySignature #'glyph-name-alist = \makamGlyphs
\override Staff.TimeSignature #'break-visibility = ##(#f #f #f)
r1\break
a'1\break
\time 7/4
a1 bfc4 c4 d4 \break
\time 8/4
a1 bfc4 c d e \break
\time 5/4
e2 fb4 g4 a4 \break
a4 g f! e2 \break
}
\layout {
ragged-right = ##t
ragged-last = ##t
\context {
\Staff \consists "Horizontal_bracket_engraver"
}
\context {
\Score
\remove "Bar_number_engraver"
\remove "Time_signature_engraver"
\override SpacingSpanner #'shortest-duration-space = #8
\override SpacingSpanner #'spacing-increment = #1
}
}
}
\paper {
page-top-space = 0\mm
aftertitlespace = 0\mm
betweensystemspace = 10\mm
betweensystempadding = #1
raggedbottom=##f
raggedlastbottom=##f
line-width = 80\mm
}
\version "2.11.12"
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There's all kinds of fun stuff in there; do google searches, or searches in the lilypond manual, for some of the commands, such as removing the time
signature engraver, etc.
I won't have much time free in the next month to help out over here, have some final exams to give, several dissertations to read, and a few book
chapters to write. Hopefully the above message will help you on the lilypond track.
(last note: if you wanted to change all the flats to slash-flats, you'd change all the bfc notes to bfb , and change the key signature liek I showed
in the previous post)
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Edward Powell
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This is all amazing help - THANKS!
I think my basic trouble now is that I am not completely and fully understanding how a "text-interface" program works, as this is the first time I
have ever attempted to work with one. Of course, I know HTML very well, and have used it for years. I guess this is something a bit like HTML where we
are writing a code which the browser (lilypond) will interpret and give use PDFs etc.
But you guys are talking about creating your own MAKAM files etc... wow, this sounds advanced. But I'm sure when I really dig in it will be clear. I
guess you are figuring out how to assign specific comas modifications to specific accidentals... this is exactly what I want actually because I
compose with lots of coma placements, and I would like to customise my own writing system - and have an accurate midi playback to match this...
Thanks again, and I will let you know how I progress once I dig in a bit.
...now back to a bit more composing (this is the easy and relaxing part of my life now! ))
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joseph
Oud Maniac
Posts: 62
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HI Edward and Everyone,
A while back I worked with LilyPond on adding some documentation on how to write Arabic music with LilyPond in their manual, and put a post on this
forum about it, I also added some definitions of some Arabic scale. I don't know if you have these available in the latest version of LilyPond but I'd
be interested to know. In any case, I hope some of the documentation below would still be useful to you. Let us know if you have any problems, but I'm
also not an expert just a user of LilyPond. If the documentation does not help, I can also post a couple of examples that I'm working on now, but have
a read of this first, and let us know what you need. The LilyPond Forum is also very helpful if you hit technical problems, and I'm sure they'd like
to know that people are using the Arabic music support that was added.
Here's the link to the other post which contains the documentation in the PDF (As I said, that should also be in the latest LilyPond manuals).
http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=7447#pid466...
Regards
Joseph
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Reda Aouad
Oud Junkie
Posts: 553
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| Quote: | Originally posted by joseph
HI Edward and Everyone,
A while back I worked with LilyPond on adding some documentation on how to write Arabic music with LilyPond in their manual, and put a post on this
forum about it, I also added some definitions of some Arabic scale. I don't know if you have these available in the latest version of LilyPond but I'd
be interested to know. In any case, I hope some of the documentation below would still be useful to you. Let us know if you have any problems, but I'm
also not an expert just a user of LilyPond. If the documentation does not help, I can also post a couple of examples that I'm working on now, but have
a read of this first, and let us know what you need. The LilyPond Forum is also very helpful if you hit technical problems, and I'm sure they'd like
to know that people are using the Arabic music support that was added.
Here's the link to the other post which contains the documentation in the PDF (As I said, that should also be in the latest LilyPond manuals).
http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=7447#pid466...
Regards
Joseph |
Thank you Joseph
I read your documentation somewhere (maybe in the manual) and it was very helpful
The only problem was that of the Arabic half-flat sign (slashed bemol) used in Arabic notation, which I solved by combining codes from makam.ly and
arabic.ly..
Thanks
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Edward Powell
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Hi Joseph
Thanks so much --- I still need to find the time to reallky dig in and try to get a littl bit further with it....! ...but what comes to mind right
now is that I did not encounter any difficulty so far with Arabic music (dealing simply with 1/4 tones), but my problems came with TURKISH music which
uses a 9 coma division per whole tone - - - THIS is what I'm having troubles will...
T H A N K S
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joseph
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Hi Edward,
Ah, that's really interesting. I didn't read the all the exchanges.
I didn't think Turkish musical notation was supported, but I knew it was considered, and now when I check their site again, it said it is under
development, so that's quite exciting, and I guess that's what your working on.
I guess you know that you can get help from the LilyPond forum, and I'm sure they'll be quite happy to hear from you, especially if you are testing
their new feature. You might even want to volunteer to help improve the documentation, if you're having trouble with it. Volunteering to help with the
documentation was quite a rewarding experience for me, but it was quite time consuming, so I could only do it for a limited time!
Best of luck
Joseph
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Edward Powell
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Thanks again Joseph!
I didn't know there is a LP forum! That's amazing...
Write at the moment, I am sidetracked with a bunch of recording - since I
figured I had better finish my current CD before notating composition for A NEXT CD!) ...but when I get back to the notating I will do as you suggest and get in touch with LP... that's a really good idea - also to try to help
them perhaps with the tutorials.
I guess LP is a bit like a notation co-op on-line?
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adamgood
Oud Junkie
Posts: 499
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Edward and Joseph,
There's a lilypond email list, actually not a forum (or is there one I don't know about?). The list is good, has some very very knowledgeable, uber
intelligent and helpful people.
You can however search the archives of that list at the LP site under "documentation". Often I find all of my answers or hints there.
adam
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mavrothis
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I went through the same questions, and had them answered well on the finale forum:
http://www.finaleforum.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4353&highlight=ottoman
Now, I can write in Ottoman notation with no problems.
Sorry if this was already answered here, I didn't read the whole discussion.
Unfortunately, Finale Tech Support does not really help you with these kinds of problems - they expect their own customers to solve Finale issues
through forums.
Take care,
mavrothis
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Edward Powell
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| Quote: | Originally posted by mavrothis
I went through the same questions, and had them answered well on the finale forum:
http://www.finaleforum.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4353&highlight=ottoman
Now, I can write in Ottoman notation with no problems.
Sorry if this was already answered here, I didn't read the whole discussion.
Unfortunately, Finale Tech Support does not really help you with these kinds of problems - they expect their own customers to solve Finale issues
through forums.
Take care,
mavrothis |
So you are writing OTTOMAN music with FINALE! this is the first I have ever heard of THIS! ...how did you manage the fonts... AND WHAT ABOUT THE
COMAS DURING PLAYBACK???
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mavrothis
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Not with playback - what I'm doing is creating CLEFS, not KEY SIGNATURES, as far as Finale recognizes - but what shows on the paper is a clef with
Ottoman key signature. Playback is what I do with my oud... though I realize
it would be great if it played it back right. I think Sibelius does that though: http://www.alsiadi.com/musicscores.htm
I also can use the Turkish fonts for accidentals too. I'm attaching the font files for you now.
You can also create libraries for makams which you can load easily whenever you start composing/transcribing. I've found that I usually have to redo
the accidentals increments each time so that I can use the "+" and "-" key to adjust each note's accidental, through the list of Ottoman
accidentals.
Try the instructions in the forum link, using the fonts I'm attaching, and let me know if you have any questions.
Take care,
mavrothis
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adamgood
Oud Junkie
Posts: 499
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Location: Brooklyn, NY
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Mood: 2.7 koma flat
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| Quote: | Originally posted by FastForward
and here is a sample file
| Quote: |
\include "arabic_modified3.ly"
% \include "arabic.ly"
\score {
\relative re' {
\set Staff.extraNatural = ##f
\set Staff.autoBeaming = ##f
\key re \bayati
\time 10/8
re4 re'8 re16 [misb re do] sisb [la sisb do] re4 r8
re16 [misb do re] sisb [do] la [sisb sol8] la [sisb] do [re] misb
fa4 fa16 [misb] misb8. [re16] re8 [misb] re [do] sisb
do4 sisb8 misb16 [re do sisb] la [do sisb la] la4 r8
}
\header {
title = "Semai Muhayer"
composer = "Jamil Bek"
}
}
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Hi I just had a chance to try this out and still I get the error about the key signature:
" warning: No ordering for key signature alterations
\key re \bayati "
I get output but the key signature doesn't appear to be correct to me. Also not for \rast, etc...I created your custom init file.
Just wanting to see how it's being employed in for Arabic music so I can try to apply it to my Turkish notation. As it is now I simply make all of the
key sigs for Turkish makam in an extra init file and call it up via:
\rast
and it's totally fine. Just part of my would enjoy seeing
\key \rast
but I've never understood where a definition for "\key" is located.
By the way, Han-Wen who is the developer that worked with us on the Turkish notation suggested to simply do it like my example above. But now I see
you guys have worked \key into it. any thoughts?
adam |
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