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David.B
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Shadd `Araban + Score + Analysis
Here it is the professional sound clip of the taksim "Shat Arabân" by George Abyad :
http://www.mikeouds.com/audio/real/george_abyad_shat_araban.rm
My own score of the Samai :
http://www.4shared.com/file/134359718/98ad8a01/Samai_Shadd_Arabn.ht...
My own analysis :
01:04
F# zahir to G ( “Arab Music Theory in the Modern Period” by Marcus Scott Lloyd p.590)
Unfolding on the higher octave of Shadd `Araban finishing on the first octave
01:28
Shadd `Araban on G
01:36
Tarz Nuwin on D
01:51
Qarar CC + GG
Glissando A -> Bb
Nahawand Kabir
01:59
BB as a leading tone to C
AA as a double “leading tone” to C (AMTMP p.593)
Nahawand
02:12
Glissando A -> Bb
Nahawand kabir
02:14
F#
Shadd `Araban
02:19
(Glissando from) Db (to C), 2 points of view:
- temporary modulation to Hijaz Kar or Hijazayn on GG
- precadential accidental of Shadd `Araban tetrachord (AMTMP p.618)
02:37
Shadd `Araban on G
02:47
C (qarar) touch of Nawa Athar
02:52
D (qarar) touch of Hijazayn
02:54
B/BB, Ab/AAb, G/GG
Descent in both octaves of Shadd `Araban
02:56
Strong presence of G surrounded by its two half steps F# an Ab in Shadd `Araban
02:59
(Glissando from F# to) F
Nahawand Kabir
Unfolding on the second jins, Nahawand on G, with Bb and A
03:10
(Glissando from F to) Gb, two points of view
- temporary modulation to Nahawand Murassa` (or Sinbulah)
- precadential accidental of Nahawand tetrachord (AMTMP p.618)
03:22
Tremolo on Ab
Nahawand
03:40
F#
Shadd `Araban on G
03:55
f natural
Kurd on d within maqam Hijaz on G
04:12
Glissando A-b- -> Bb (-> A) -> A-b-
Maqam Nirz
04:16
Glissando F -> F#, leading tone to G
04:22
Shadd `Araban
04:43
Kurd on d within Hijaz on G
04:51
A# as a dint to B (hassas al-hassas) within Hijaz tetrachord on G
04:58
Ajam in c
05:02
Nahawand
05:04
Ajam c
05:20
Rast
05:29
Compound mode:
Shadd `Araban + Hijaz Kar
05:40
Tarz Jadid on c in Nahawand fasilah
05:46
Glissando Ab -> A which prepare the Shadd `Araban on G
05:54
Ab
Shadd `Araban on G
06:11
F natural
Nahawand
06:12
(Glissando from) A (to Ab) touch of Nahawand Kabir
06:25
FF#
Shadd `Araban
06:30
AA as a double “leading tone” to C
BB as a leading tone to C
06:42
GG
Finalis of the taksim
This is an open work, your commentaries are welcome !
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fernandraynaud
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David, what is a "dint"?
What is the relation of the score to the whole piece?
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David.B
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That's a good question !
"Dint-s
Discontinuous lower neighboring tones are accidentals which are approached from and followed by the same note, this note being a half step above the
accidental itself.
Dunt-s
Discontinuous upper neighboring tones. Dunt-s are generally approached and followed by the same note, this note being a half step below the accidental
itself."
Check out the Arab Music Theory in Modern Period page 612.
About the word itself, anyone's got a clue about its etymology ?
The score is the samai at the beginning, can you hear what I wrote ? maybe I put too much details ?
PS
Merci pour les liens que tu m'as envoyé, j'écoute ça attentivement dès que possible (je pensais pouvoir bosser la musique tranquille cette semaine
mais je vais devoir faire un peu d'intérim pour gagner des sous...). Pour D'Erlanger, je me casse les neurones sur le premier volume : le langage
date un peu (Farabi) et j'ai du mal à digérer certaines abstractions tant que je ne les ai pas mises en pratique sur un instrument... Si tu arrives
à tout appréhender c'est tout bénèf, tu va devenir un fin théoricien. Tiens moi au courant si tu complètes la collection !
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David.B
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My own interpretation :
http://www.4shared.com/file/149765105/67f54e8/Taksim_Shadd_Araban.h...
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Benjamin
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Very nice and useful work, I really enjoyed listening to the taqasim with all the analysis in front of my eyes, so that it's really easier to follow
what is going on, and to feel what the steps are. My teacher often told me that when playing taqasim I should know where I want to go and to arrive,
so here I felt the same as I can see in advance the intention of the player. It's quite an academic (and nice) playing here, so there is a real
interest in doing that "academic" analysis, well done and go on with that David.
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David.B
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Thanks Benjamin,
Very important for me to hear that because I learn with books and Cd's without anybody to correct me. Also I'd like to mention the particular
importance of "Mike's Ouds Forums" which is a free world wide school and I'd like to thanks everybody for being here ! This place makes me think about
Andalusia during the golden age of Islam, it changes the rules...
PS
The score is not good, I should write it with eighth notes and exclude the ornaments.
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myeyes2020
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Great work!
Correct me if I'm wrong. Rather than saying "shat araban on G," isn't it understood that "shat araban" is hijaz kar on g?
at 3:10, the characterstic feel of the "slide for F to G flat" of nahawand murassa is not there for me. If you modulated to one of the maqamat in
the "two points of view" then which note did you choose as the dominant even if temporary? Did you use the fa of nah murassa or the sol of the
nahawand.
here is a good example of nahwand murassa. In khoria hassan's song "min hobi feek ya gari"= from the extent my love for you my neighbor.
she sings "min hobi feek ya GARI, ya gari min zaman. akhabi esho' wa DARI, la yerafo el geran." translated.... from my love for you my neighbor, oh
my neighbor since long ago. I hide my desire and cover up lest the neighbors find out."
At 49 secs into the clip, notice the slide on th word "Gari"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsO2W01BKIA&playnext_from=TL&...
I believe that another good example of this is when Um Kalthoum begins singin "ya habibi" in alf leyla wa layla but im not sure. I have to check on
that.
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FastForward
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No Hijazkar and Shad araban are two different and distinct maqams, while they might have similar (the same) notes, the seyr and flow is completely
different.
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myeyes2020
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My original point was that by definition, shad araban is hijaz kar transposed on G and therefore you only need to say "shad araban" and redundant to
say "on G". Likewise hijaz kar transposed on D is "shehnaz" and therefore you woudnt say shehnaz on D. All three maqamat have "hijazain" OR two
hizaz ajnaz with the same distinct spacing.
But now you raised another point. If you simply transpose a primary maqam onto another note and give it another name, that doesnt create another
"distinct" maqam. Wouldnt you agree? Just because we say "maqam shad araban" and give it different "sayer" rules does not make it a distinct maqam
from Hijaz kar. Heck, that would mean that the Major scale has 12 different and distinct maqamat.
For example Maqam Rahat al Arwah is Huzam transposed to b half flat. Ajam ushayaran is Ajam transposed to b flat. Are these 2 maqamat (ajam
ushayran and Rahat al arwah) distinct from their primary maqam?
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FastForward
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Well, you are treating the maqam as a "scale" which is honestly butchering of the maqam. For some, a transposed version of the maqam can simply be a
transposed version, but mostly, they are different maqams. Two maqams might share the same notes, that doesn't make them the same. They are very
different in the seyr and the consequently the feel is very different. I don't want to hijack this thread, so you can search the forum and this topic
has been discussed before.
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myeyes2020
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Thanks! I learned something new. I guess I have to "rewind"...lol... and revisit the definition of maqam.
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David.B
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OK myeyes2020,
I should start from the beginning :
Here it is the way I write the note
CC DD EE-b- (half-flat) -> 6th string
FF GG -> 5th course
AA BB-b- C -> 4th course
D E-b- F -> 3rd course
G A B-b- -> 2d course
c d e-b- f g a b-b- c' -> 1st course
This is easier (for me) than Yakah, qarar nim Hisar, qarar Hisar...
Thus when I write "Shadd `Araban on G" it means the focus is on the second octave, when the focus is on GG I write "Shadd `Araban" without anything
else because this is the tonic. But you bring something to the fore, in fact George Abyad doesn't play on Shadd `Araban on the second octave, he plays
mostly on Hijaz on G. So I'd like to ask something : "Does the Shadd `Araban duplicate on the second octave ?". This is why Shadd `Araban is Shadd
`Araban and Hijaz Kar, Hijaz Kar, these are not occidental scales and do not necessarily duplicate on the higher or lower octave ! And many other
differences...
About Nahawand Murassa` :
"Such dunt-s occur in a number of maqamat, can be consider a characteristic feature of these modes, and serve a special function in performance, i.e.,
they tend to a signal an upcoming cadence to the tonic. As such, Racy has referred to these notes as "precadential accidentals" (in classes at UCLA).
In most cases, the precadential accidental is a flat fifth (as in the maqamat [...] Nahawand [...]). [...]
Modern-day theorists commonly analyze phrases with precadential accidenals as a temporary modulations to a new maqam, the new maqam being one which
shares the same lower tetrachord but has a Hijaz tetrachord as its jins al-far`. This is because they assume that the accidental is the second note of
a new Hijaz tetrachord (even when the other notes of this tetrachord do not occur in the phrase in quesion). In the above examples, the new maqamat
are called Nahawand Murassa` or Nahawand Sinbulah [...]."
ARAB MUSIC THEORY IN THE MODERN PERIOD
by Marcus Scott Lloyd
But I have to check out your link (this WE) to understand what you mean...
"Heck, that would mean that the Major scale has 12 different and distinct maqamat."
Be careful ! I think I'm not the only one here to consider that the 24 tones scales is not tempered ! I give to you only one example : I consider the
E-b- in maqam Rast a little bit higher than the one in maqam Bayyati, so if I transpose I have to take care of this difference to keep the taste of
the maqam in question. With the occidental tempered scale E is E never mind of the tonic...
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myeyes2020
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Yes shadd Araban duplicates itself on the second octave. The Hijaz chord begins again on sol.
I must admit that my music analytical skills are very weak. that being said, the interval from 1:28 to 1:36 does not reveal a tonic because it has
no qafla. If like you said, he plays mostly on Sol, then sol is moslt likely the dominat making this the upper jins higaz on sol, consequently maqam
higaz kar is the best candidate if it is a modulation. However, i think he is still on shat araban next octave. Why does it have to be a
modulation?
yes of course e half flat is different on rast and bayat and even in certain maqamat, it can be different assending/decending in the same maqam. And
yes, all those characteristics are also (should be) transposed. That being said, let me offer this point:
I dont have any documentation for this but I understand that jins hijaz (say on Re) is often played E flat a coma higher and F# a coma lower. This
spacing tends to follow suit and is easy and natural to play on the open strings A,D, G and C (first course). This is not so easy or natural to do on
the lower jins higaz on Do of Hijaz Kar.
The beauty of transposing Hijaz Kar to GG is exploited with tuning DD,GG, A, D, G,C. The tonic GG can be played exact and sustained. "La bimol" can
be naturally played slightly higher with the first finger on the GG. Si with second finger A-string. Do with third finger A-String. DD can make a
nice sustained drone for your taqasim or as a bam when you play around the dominant D and the upper jins.
You can also play a call/response melody easily on D and DD , G and GG.
You also have two sets of adjacent strings (DD/GG an D/G) in which you can play jins hijaz comfortably back to back. Interestingly, higaz -d and
higaz-g back to back create Nawa Athar.
Adel
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David.B
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I consider the ambitus of Shadd `Araban as Shadd `Araban + Hijaz on G : That's why a maqam is a maqam and not a scale, the way to see a maqam as a
heptatonic mode is not so old and inspired by the occidental theory. This is not the original way in the Arab music.
I must go back behind my oud to give a correct answer, but to fire off Abyad begins on the higher octave of Shadd `Araban : This is a convention. So
this means he plays on the genre Hijaz on G. But this is not a modulation, this is a part of the maqam. In consequence G is not the dominant but the
octave (joab). The dominant (ghammaz) is C or D.
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David.B
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Quote: Originally posted by myeyes2020  | The beauty of transposing Hijaz Kar to GG is exploited with tuning DD,GG, A, D, G,C. The tonic GG can be played exact and sustained. "La bimol" can
be naturally played slightly higher with the first finger on the GG. Si with second finger A-string. Do with third finger A-String. DD can make a
nice sustained drone for your taqasim or as a bam when you play around the dominant D and the upper jins.
You can also play a call/response melody easily on D and DD , G and GG.
You also have two sets of adjacent strings (DD/GG an D/G) in which you can play jins hijaz comfortably back to back. Interestingly, higaz -d and
higaz-g back to back create Nawa Athar. |
For sure, I'm convinced about that ! But I prefer to keep the same tension on my strings and I can't have a oud for each maqam with the right tension
Music is a compromise...
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myeyes2020
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I can't find the book, ARAB MUSIC THEORY IN MODERN TIMES" on the internet. Any idea as to how I can get a copy?
Thanks for sharing your knowledge by the way. I feel guilty that you are reading and writing so much....lol
I'd like to re-iterate my understanding. I believe that the word "scale" is avoided when describing Arabic music theory to westerners to prevent the
westerner from treating the Arabic 24 not "scale" as an even tempered scale like the chromatic scale. It's true that there are a few maqams that
cannot be treated as a scale in the same manner that one would treat the major and minor scales.
I don't see how treating the Shadd Araban as a scale is butchering it and I dont see why one needs to be too careful. Even if it has a different
sayer or mood than higaz kar. I believe it can be called Higaz kar on GG. This transposition is called "taswir" in Arabic or the "mirror" because
the exact tonal intervals are transposed. These tonal intervals are the same ascending, decending and into the next octave. octave 1= Higaz GG +
Higaz D, octave 2= Higaz G + Higaz d
A different sayer mood etc... based on regional or cultural differences does not make it a different scale.
The case in which it would be "butchered" when calling it a scale is when it's transposed to C (do). Surely this can be done and called a scale if
you call it Hijaz Kar on do. However it would be wrong to say this is Higaz kar Kurd because this is truly a different maqam. It is much different
acending (higaz + higaz) then when descending (Kurd + Nahawand).
In Arabic we would say "solam maqam Shadd Araban" = the scale of the maqam shadd Araban." Solam ( سلم ) means ladder or scale.
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David.B
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Adel,
Check out this link :
http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=9799#pid651...
Many good links. Of course you should read ARAB MUSIC THEORY IN THE MODERN PERIOD, also read "La Musique Arabe" Tome V by the Baron d'Erlanger p. 120,
and "A treatise on Arabic music chiefly from a work by Mikhâil Meshâkah of Damascus" p. 183 and 185. I'm not sure of what I write this my
understanding when I mix theory and George Abyad's CD, I must confess this is weak and I shall work on other players but it asks so much time... BTW,
the most important is to create our own vision and feeling of Arab music, this is long and asks experience. I'll be back on the taksim (Shadd `Araban)
about the end of the year and our conversation will help me to re-understand the maqam 
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David.B
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PS
"La Musique Arabe" Tome V by the Baron d'Erlanger p. 120
You'll see 3 genres (ajnas) after c :
- Hijazi on d
- Rast on c
- Naw'athar on c
At the end of the page, " The mode SAT `ARABAN distinguishes itself by Naw'athar on c".
So it's OK to use a f# and treat it as a "scale" but this had not been confirmed by my practice on Abyad's CD.
"A treatise on Arabic music chiefly from a work by Mikhâil Meshâkah of Damascus" p. 183 and 185
Be prudent before you make easy conclusion, this is the early modern period and the notes don't correspond with nowadays theory. If I do not say
stupid things Yegâh is CC (or C), Rest GG (or G) (if somebody can refresh my memory) etc. BTW, it's really interesting to read how the oral maqamat
developed themself through melodic-types far away from the occidental ladder ("échelle" the French word had been translated in Arab, "sulllam",
because of the influence of France during this period...). With d'Erlanger the standardization had already done its job ! (Even if "it is evident from
a pre-modern work quoted in Villoteau (1826 : 46ff.) that a scalar presentation of the modes existed prior to the modern period. I am arguing, then,
that the concept of scale had to be reintroduced into discussions of the individual modes". -> Arab Music Theory In The Modern Period p. 453)
But the most important is to read the "Arab Music Theory In The Modern Period" :
p. 448, B. THE CONCEPT OF SCALE
P. 458, C. AMBITUS
P. 512, E. NON-DUPLICATION AT THE OCTAVE
In spite of all these treatises I can't explain why George Abyad uses a f natural almost all the time.
I played during 5 years with scores and a teacher who uses the 24 tones Arab scale as a tempered scale. I learned the skills but not the Arab thought.
Now my way is to focus on ajnas while I'm playing, I don't think "maqam" or "scale". This had come naturally by playing by ear.
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myeyes2020
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| Quote: Originally posted by David.B |
I played during 5 years with scores and a teacher who uses the 24 tones Arab scale as a tempered scale. I learned the skills but not the Arab thought.
Now my way is to focus on ajnas while I'm playing, I don't think "maqam" or "scale". This had come naturally by playing by ear.
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I'm sure those years served you well and I also think in ajnas and not scale or maqam. It's too much mental gymnastics for me to think that the next
tone is a certain distance away.
Perhaps Marcus Lloyd's treatise should be called Arab music theory in the modern world FROM A WESTERN PERSPECTIVE...lol
I find it ineresting how the arabic word for theory is "nadhareya." It comes from the root word "nadhar" or "view" (as in "from my view"). First
came the music repertoire and then came the "view of" the repertoire to explain it.
I'm sure you're aware that in the West (I lived in the USA since age 3), we first define the theory and then the repertoire comes from the theory.
Regarding Arabic music, the repertoire came first with a history and various traditions. They were preserved and enhanced by the Arab world and then
came the theory to describe what the seasoned musician of Arabic music understands and feels naturally.
If we begin to serve the writen theory (from a Western Perspective), we loose light of the authentic definition maqamat and their use even when
treated as scales and expanded into the next "octave." If in ancient times they created melodies from two or three strings, I trust that it would be
difficult to venture into higher octaves...lol.
Consider the ancient musicians. without the advent of a chromatic tuner, how did they tune their strings at concert pitch with strings made from the
intestines of goats? They didnt have to. they could just tune one string to a desired sound or tention and easily tune the rest four tones apart.
The accompanying musicians could follow the leader..lol
So if their tonics were not necessarily the same "re" "mi" that we use today then were they playing the maqamat corrrectly?
Consider Umm Kalthoum in concert. Many of her concerts in later years were deliberately out of concert pitch to accommodate her "aging" voice. The
instruments were deliberately tuned a step or two above or below concert pitch for some songs yet the structured intertonal intervals were maintained.
The maqamat were then effectively transposed to non "traditional" tonics, if you will. Wouldn't you agree that these maqamat were treated as
"scales."
Do you still think that maqamat are not transposable to any pitch while preserving their unique structural integrity (ie... E half flat not necesarily
having the same pitch in different maqamat)?
Regarding the idea of non duplication at the octave, i'd have to read Lloyd's book but I find the idea hard to believe.
You're right, that our own vision and feel for the music is ultimately what's important.
Many thanks for the links. They're very helpfull
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myeyes2020
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| Quote: Originally posted by David.B |
I consider the ambitus of Shadd `Araban as Shadd `Araban + Hijaz on G : That's why a maqam is a maqam and not a scale, the way to see a maqam as a
heptatonic mode is not so old and inspired by the occidental theory. This is not the original way in the Arab music.
. |
I think I may have a glimpse of the point you're trying to get accross.
I first read your sentence as:
Sh araban= shad araban+ JINS Hijaz G
if so, then this doesnt oppose the idea of duplication.
however if you meant...= shadd araban + MAQAM Hijaz G
then this suggests that the next "octave" ends with Jins nahawand D
which did you mean?
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David.B
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| Quote: Originally posted by myeyes2020 | I'm sure you're aware that in the West (I lived in the USA since age 3), we first define the theory and then the repertoire comes from the theory.
Regarding Arabic music, the repertoire came first with a history and various traditions. They were preserved and enhanced by the Arab world and then
came the theory to describe what the seasoned musician of Arabic music understands and feels naturally.
If we begin to serve the writen theory (from a Western Perspective), we loose light of the authentic definition maqamat and their use even when
treated as scales and expanded into the next "octave." If in ancient times they created melodies from two or three strings, I trust that it would be
difficult to venture into higher octaves...lol. |
I'm perfectly aware about that. So do you think I deserve the written theory to the detriment of the authentic definition of maqamat ? To be honest I
don't understand, because I use an academic oud player (George Abyad) who represents an oral tradition as my base of analysis and I use the written
theories to understand what happens. So it perfectly follows the point of view you defend !
About scales vs melodic-types, we are both right, Arab music is a mix of both. So this is really interesting to discuss about that and I don't think
this out of the subject. The problem is that we could talk about this during hours and this is so big that a special thread is needed (must actually
exist but I can't find where...) especially in a thread where we talk about a professional sound clip called "Shat Arabân" (and not Hijaz Kar on GG).
By this title George Abyad gives his point of view and I don't know how to analyze this taksim if I do not follow him ?
To be pragmatic I reiterate my question : How do you understand a f natural all the time (except for a compound mode at 05:29) from your point of view
?
I think you already gave half an answer when you wrote "the repertoire came first with a history and various traditions. They were preserved and
enhanced by the Arab world and then came the theory". If you read my (not so good) score, you'll see that the highest note is actually f natural on
the 3rd measure. My thought is that Abyad uses the Samai as a melodic-types and the taksim is a development of what happens in the Samai. This
explains why George Abyad uses a f natural but the problem is just transposed : Why Cemil Bey Tanburi uses a f natural ?
Also I'd like to say that I prefer to assimilate this f from practice than f# from the theoretic taswir. Except if I work on an other piece of Shadd
`Araban with a strong mirror scale, so I would mix both, but this is called experience...
At last I repeat myself, here it is not my point of view but George Abyad's one. So I have nothing to defend, I try to understand, and I'm so sorry if
I understand completely wrong 
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David.B
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| Quote: Originally posted by myeyes2020 | I first read your sentence as:
Sh araban= shad araban+ JINS Hijaz G
if so, then this doesnt oppose the idea of duplication.
however if you meant...= shadd araban + MAQAM Hijaz G
then this suggests that the next "octave" ends with Jins nahawand D
which did you mean? |
Both of them !
Firstly, because I do not exclude a mirror scale and secondly because I think ajnas instead of maqamat. Concretely, for me, the first jins sets the
maqam but the second one is changeable. So I don't feel myself paradoxical. This is the beauty of Arab music 
PS
I think you wanted to say Nahawand on c (or Kurd on d).
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myeyes2020
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you are correct, i did mean to say kurd- d or nahawand c as you can see, i write late at night...lol furthurmore, i recall others who suggested that
maqam higaz -d was inteposed in shadd araban thus creating nahawand F as it's tail (ambitus?) which may explain your f natural.
I have to correct the definition of taswir to mean "taking a picture" or provinging an image and not mirror. this is the word in music that's used
for transposing.
It's interesting about this piece that it's called samai yet it doesnt seem to have the samai structure of 4 khanat ending in taslim. It has a minute
of samai thakil and then he playes a taqasim for about 4 mintues follwed by samai again. To answer your question about f natural; I see it as the
modulation of jins hijaz to jinz kurd. At the moment, i cant identify what maqam would include hijaz combined with jins kurd.
I believe you and I have accepted a different definition of "maqam" which itself went through and evolution of meanings..lol
Not until I read this thread did I realize that "sayr" was part of the definintion of maqam for some. Not that I'm fluent in Arabic but of all the
Arabic literature I've come accross, I've never seen 'sayr" as part of the definition of maqam or even come across the word. If sayr is part of the
definition of maqam then is it incorporated in all music forms (ie samai, taqasim, muashah..etc...)?
you may already know or interested to know that a duplicate on the second "octave" of shadd araban does exist as the ascending scale of maqam siga
baladi.
great conversation! too bad this is not face to face.
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David.B
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| Quote: Originally posted by myeyes2020 | | Not until I read this thread did I realize that "sayr" was part of the definintion of maqam for some. Not that I'm fluent in Arabic but of all the
Arabic literature I've come accross, I've never seen 'sayr" as part of the definition of maqam or even come across the word. If sayr is part of the
definition of maqam then is it incorporated in all music forms (ie samai, taqasim, muashah..etc...)? |
I'm not so aware of all these musical forms, right now I'm working on Rast and I might ask some questions, I hope to see you on the forum when I'll do
my analysis in real time !
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David.B
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| Quote: Originally posted by myeyes2020 | | you may already know or interested to know that a duplicate on the second "octave" of shadd araban does exist as the ascending scale of maqam siga
baladi. |
No I've never noticed, if you want to describe it you're welcome !
So OK instead of "taswir" we should use "duplication" about the next octave in Shadd `Araban. For me it's early in the morning and I can't verify
everything before I go to work 
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