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Author: Subject: Nahat in Brazil
Dr. Oud
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[*] posted on 10-23-2009 at 09:24 AM
Nahat in Brazil


I have received email from Elias Abdo Nahhat's daughter. George Abdo and Elias emigrated to Brazil in 1937, where Elias continued to make ouds until 1984, passing in 1995. Ellias, made 60 ouds in Sao Palo according to his daughter. Elias (pictured) made ouds as early as 1923, how 'bout dat? Stay tuned....

[file]11983[/file]

[file]11985[/file]




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Jameel
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[*] posted on 10-23-2009 at 10:41 AM


Hmmm......staying tuned.....very interesting



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Dr. Oud
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[*] posted on 10-24-2009 at 10:24 PM


So it seems that George Abdo and Elias went to Brazil in 1935. So the question is, who made those "Abdo George and Sons" ouds in Damascus after that? Or were they shipped from Brazil? The mystery deepens....
here's a picture of one of Elias's last ouds, owned by his daughter in Brazil. - check the peac0ck shamsiya!



[file]12054[/file]




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Ronny Andersson
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[*] posted on 10-28-2009 at 11:51 AM


Richard, is that dude holding a Nahat?



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[*] posted on 10-28-2009 at 05:42 PM


This is getting quite interesting.....



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Sazi
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[*] posted on 10-28-2009 at 05:44 PM


What a beautiful looking oud, love the pea thingy;)



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Dr. Oud
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[*] posted on 10-28-2009 at 10:38 PM


Quote: Originally posted by Ronny Andersson  
Richard, is that dude holding a Nahat?

That dude is Elias Nahat, holding an oud he made before his passing in 1970. His daughter has been sending me this latest info.




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[*] posted on 10-29-2009 at 06:37 AM


But Dr. Oud!
First you write that they went to Brazil in the 60's,
and then you say they went in 1935!!

What is it that I misunderstand?

p.s. thanks again for all your help :-)
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[*] posted on 10-29-2009 at 07:28 AM


In the early stage of my research I based their emigration date on the information from labels of Nahat ouds made in Damascus. These were dated up to the late 1950's. I have learned this new information from the daughter of Elias Nahat, that George Abdo and Elias left Syria in 1935. I do not yet know who made the ouds in Damascus under the label of "Abdo George Nahat and Sons" after that date. George Hana Nahat made ouds up to at least 1957 in Damascus with handwritten labels, but I don't know if he also used the "Abdo George Nahat and Sons" label. These were the only printed labels seen in Nahat ouds, other than the Ikwan labels which were Roufan and Hana. So these later ouds could have been made by anybody, even a non-Nahat oud maker. I hope to unravel some of these mysteries with the help of descendants I am in contact with in Brazil.
p.s. I have corrected the earlier posts - it was George Abdo not Abdo George who went to Brazil. Elias was George Abdo's son. He had a son, but he does not make ouds that I know of. So who made the 1983 Nahat?




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[*] posted on 10-29-2009 at 07:53 AM


I see.. thanks for your answer!

If it is any help, I have 5 Nahat ouds 1885, 1887, 1919, 1920, 1945.
To Abdo, to Hanna , and the 1945 one of the sons (can't remember who. I don't have the ouds here, but I'll check).

The one made in 1945 is very bad made compared to the others. A bad imitation, as I see it.
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[*] posted on 10-30-2009 at 04:06 AM


Quote: Originally posted by Luttgutt  
...If it is any help, I have 5 Nahat ouds 1885, 1887, 1919, 1920, 1945.
To Abdo, to Hanna , and the 1945 one of the sons (can't remember who. ..

I would like to ask you to send me someictures of your Nahats for my http://www.droud.com/nahats.htm The old ones are especially interesting. Thanks.
droud2002@yahoo.com




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[*] posted on 10-30-2009 at 06:41 AM


My pleasur Dr. oud :-)

I have some pictures on my phone (OK quality, 3.2 M). I'll try to transfer to my computer (I am not so good at these things, but I'll try my best).

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[*] posted on 10-30-2009 at 08:23 AM


Here comes picture of my oldest Nahat
All oreginal (except the pegs).
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[*] posted on 10-30-2009 at 08:24 AM


Sorry! Too big. Don't know how to resize :(
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[*] posted on 10-30-2009 at 02:31 PM


May I ask...why Brazil? Of all places, at that time. The only reason people at that time went to Brazil was to escape the Nazis, or if they were an escaping Nazi.

Very very interesting.
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[*] posted on 10-30-2009 at 09:43 PM


There is a large Arabic community in Sao Paulo, Brazil. Arabs emigrated to South america primarily from Lebanon and Syria beginning in the early 1900's. Today there are 8-10 million Arab-Brazilians. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Brazilian



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[*] posted on 2-15-2010 at 11:15 AM


Hi,

for those interested in Nahat's history I found this article about Romeu Féres, an oud player who what Elias Abdo's student in Brazil. Have you heard about him?

It is also written in the paper that Elias was George Abdo's brother - so both sons of Abdo George. I guess that they both worked in their father's shop (Abdo G. Nahat & Fils) until his death (mid thirties?) and then they emmigrated to Brazil in 1935 ?

joiasrabes-capa.jpg - 83kB
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[*] posted on 2-16-2010 at 12:49 AM


Quote: Originally posted by Danielo  
Hi,
for those interested in history I found this article about Romeu Féres, an oud player who was Elias student in Brazil.


A translation into English would be more than welcome !

Dr. Oud : As much as I can recall from looking at rosettes, there were two Abdo Nahats : Abdo George & Sons + Abdo & his son Elias. so Abdo George has never left Damascus, while Abdo & Elias immigrated to Brazil . This may explain why there are no - or rarely found - ouds of Abdo & son Elias compared to Abdo George's big collection.

Does this make any sense ?


Yours truly
Alfaraby
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[*] posted on 2-16-2010 at 02:06 AM


Hi Alfaraby,

Can it be that the Abdo of "Abdo & his son Elias", is the same as the Abdo of "Abdo George & sons" ?

I mean it is clear that George Abdo was the son of Abdo George, and that he immigrated to Brazil. Now if this article is correct Elias Abdo is George Abdo's brother, so both sons of the same Abdo (Abdo George, the great!).

If I am correct, why on some ouds of Abdo George & sons workshop (at least one, in Doc's museum) it was only written "Abdo and his son Elias" ? I don't know.


PS: It seems indeed that Abdo George never left Damascus, but as far as I know the last ouds with label "Abdo G. Nahat & fils" were around 1931, so maybe Abdo George died around that date, before the sons decided to leave to Brazil?



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[*] posted on 2-16-2010 at 04:00 AM


Hi all

This is a fascinating subject and should really be the subject of a Gabriel Garcia Marquez novel! I have many other things I should be doing today, but I’m bored, so, as Alfaraby requested, I decided to translate the article Danielo referenced. The article is very long and much of it is actually a bit of a rant on how some music promoters claim to be the first to introduce arabic music to Brazil (shock horror - music promoters, um, promote themselves?) when it was actually there all along.

So, I've only translated the paragraphs directly referring to the Nahats. I don't vouch for the translation being 100% accurate as I'm a bit rusty and Portuguese literary style tends to be a bit convoluted and is hard to make into short, English sentences. This writer is even more flowery than most. Hope it’s of interest. If the general subject of arabic music in Latin America is of interest to anyone I can translate the whole article in another thread, but it's quite long and I'm not sure how reliable it is.

Um, just to point out in response to one post above, not everyone who emigrated to South America in the 20th Century was a Nazi. As far as music is concerned, the great Argentinian composer, singer and guitarist Eduardo Falú was also of Syrian descent (not forgetting of course, the likes of Salma Hakek and Shakira!). Please be a little more careful with these sweeping statements!


----
Furthermore, it is important to note that even the production of Arabic musical instruments was more significant in this period [the 50s and 60s] than now. In addition to Fuad Haidamus, the Derbaka planer who was famous for making Brazilian derbakas whose quality equalled the best genuine Syrian and Egyptian instruments, an article published in the local newspaper in Baixada Santista [suburb of São Paolo] on Romeu Féres refers to Nahat, a luthier who taught Féres to play the oud (see annex 1 [annex doesn't provide info on the Nahats]). The Nahat referred to in the article is no other than Elias Abdo Nahat, a luthier born in Syria and who emigrated to Brazil in the last century.

The Nahat family, originally from Damascus, were famous luthiers in the Arab world, and their instruments are still sought after by collectors all over the world, recognised for their excellent sound quality and aesthetic beauty. It is believed that Nahat family [caste] had followed this trade from generation to generation for centuries. The brother of Elias Abdo Nahat, George Abdo Nahat, who also emigrated to Brazil, is also considered one of the greatest luthiers of all time and his instruments are especially prized among collectors. His instruments were among the favourites of the famous Farid al Attrache.

From Arabic music in Brazil – when the last become first (by Lívia Jabob)

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[*] posted on 2-16-2010 at 10:09 AM


Quote: Originally posted by alfaraby  
...As much as I can recall from looking at rosettes, there were two Abdo Nahats : Abdo George & Sons + Abdo & his son Elias. so Abdo George has never left Damascus, while Abdo & Elias immigrated to Brazil . This may explain why there are no - or rarely found - ouds of Abdo & son Elias compared to Abdo George's big collection....Does this make any sense ?...Alfaraby

I don't have a definite answer to the details of the Nahat brothers (Abdo and Elias) emigration, or if there were actually two Abdo Nahats (which I doubt). My theory is that the label "Abdo Nahat et fILs" was used by the shop in Damascus after the brothers left, as ouds continued to be produced under this label after 1935. George Abdo remained in Damascus, as his personal label ouds continued into the late 1950's. So perhaps George was supervising production under the label, I don't know at this time. The mystery will continue untill.....




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[*] posted on 2-17-2010 at 03:51 AM


Quote: Originally posted by DaveH  
The brother of Elias Abdo Nahat, George ... emigrated to Brazil , is also considered one of the greatest luthiers of all time and his instruments are especially prized among collectors.


Thanks Dave

The article confuses between Abdo George & George Abdo Nahat. The "Stradivarius" of the oud was definitely Abdo George & not his son, nor even his father .

Dr. Oud stated that "George Abdo remained in Damascus", so it's getting even more vague ...

It's also not accepted in our culture that Abdo the father could have emigrated to Brazil, while his son George had stayed in Damascus to look for the "business"

I really don't know anything for sure ... I was just thinking

Yours truly
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[*] posted on 2-17-2010 at 04:02 AM


Quote: Originally posted by Dr. Oud  
I don't have a definite answer ... if there were actually two Abdo Nahats (which I doubt).


You've indicated Dr. in your chart in the site that there were two Abdos : Abdo George Abdo Nahat ("Strad.) & Abdo Elias Abdo Nahat (who's supposedly was Abdo Nahat & his son Elias who might have emigrated to Brazil !!) !

Does this make sense ?

Yours Truly
Alfaraby
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[*] posted on 2-17-2010 at 05:07 AM


Abdo George was supposed to be born in 1863. I doubt that - if he was still alive then - he would have left to Brazil in 1935, at 72.. Is there any evidence that Abdo (well, any Abdo) emigrated to Brazil? Are there btw many ouds with "Abdo G. Nahat & Fils" label after 1935 ? ( ask because I never saw any).


As you say Doc this story is still full of mysteries... Thanks for your efforts !
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[*] posted on 2-17-2010 at 12:47 PM


I am confused, I say we all just book a trip to Syria and figure this out :xtreme:



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