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Edward Powell
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naseer in the old days?
http://www.youtube.com/user/kaisabdullatifparis#p/u/5/FOV2R5INz9Q
I must admit that I haven't found myself extremely impressed with most of the clips of naseer on the web--- especially from a guy with such a
reputation...
but seeing this old clip makes me wonder if at one time his playing was 'different'? The playing in this old clip really touches me...
I must admit that briefly meeting shamma last year in cairo it struck me that he is an extremely busy and preoccupied guy - my guess is that he has
not had time for practice in a long time... only my guess.
ok, enough talking about others and get back to practicing myself! 
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suz_i_dil
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I spent an half year in his school in 2005, and saw many of his shows...and indeed, I join you in this opinion his early works were much more "
sensitive " ( or with feeling, don't know the exact word ) than the pieces he played in his current shows.
For exemple I'm really touched by his Boston concert album, raheel el qamar, but regarding the concerts I saw of him...well, I remember particullary a
concert with a flamenco player wich only brought me the feeling of a competition of technicity and velocity.
But anyway, there's so many works I appreciate of this great composer, and regarding the school, it brought me exactly what I were looking for,
intensive musical therapy...
Regards.
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Sazi
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Sigh!
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katakofka
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If we want to mention the players who had or has influence on oud playing definitely shamma is between them. Shamma gathered both styles, munir and
jamiil bashir styles and made from that his own style. During the past years we saw nasser shamma in his best performances now I am questioning what's
next for him? what else?
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fernandraynaud
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Glad I'm not the only one who reacts this way to e.g. Shamma's pyrotechnics and amazing chords. There's pressure I guess on all instrumentalists to be
faster and flashier than the next guy. Shamma seems like a very cerebral player, even in those early recordings, he's not one to get lost in the flow.
Tawandros is not at all immune to that, either. You'd think that after achieving a certain recognition, a player could relax and focus on real
expression instead of dazzling technique. I believe that music is supposed to be played with the heart, not the fingers.
I think there was something simple and emotionally grounded about Farid's avalanche of notes, that isn't there when most players go for speed.
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DaveH
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I agree there is something that works in this clip. I also think the oud has a role to play. As far as floating bridges go, there's something really
special and much more intimate and sublte about fawzy munshid's sound. It really goes against the grain of the stereotypical booming sound of the
iraqi floaters, as well as his usual Yaroub Fadels, which are a bit too tinny and nasal for my taste.
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Edward Powell
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Quote: Originally posted by katakofka  | | During the past years we saw nasser shamma in his best performances now I am questioning what's next for him? what else? |
are there some particular clips of OLD concerts you can recommend?
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Edward Powell
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| Quote: Originally posted by fernandraynaud | Glad I'm not the only one who reacts this way to e.g. Shamma's pyrotechnics and amazing chords. There's pressure I guess on all instrumentalists to be
faster and flashier than the next guy. Shamma seems like a very cerebral player, even in those early recordings, he's not one to get lost in the flow.
Tawandros is not at all immune to that, either. You'd think that after achieving a certain recognition, a player could relax and focus on real
expression instead of dazzling technique. I believe that music is supposed to be played with the heart, not the fingers.
I think there was something simple and emotionally grounded about Farid's avalanche of notes, that isn't there when most players go for speed.
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funny, i guess i am missing something - - - i haven't seen NS doing anything particularly extreme in terms of flash. [but then again, my sitar teacher
was Budhaditya Mukherjee, so after him there is VERY LITTLE which seems technically over-kill]
...funny thing is that I myself have not ended up as a technical-speed player at all.
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katakofka
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHmHAg-RBNY&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLsXUWRs014
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8bJ-3iim3w
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shayrgob
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wow he looks odd in that video.
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Ronny Andersson
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| Quote: Originally posted by DaveH | | I agree there is something that works in this clip. I also think the oud has a role to play. As far as floating bridges go, there's something really
special and much more intimate and sublte about fawzy munshid's sound. It really goes against the grain of the stereotypical booming sound of the
iraqi floaters, as well as his usual Yaroub Fadels, which are a bit too tinny and nasal for my taste. |
You are absolutety right Dave. The Fawzy oud Nasser played on in the early years had the typical Fawzy sound that is very different all other makers
floating bridge ouds.
I had Nasser oud with me for some time for restoration. A luthier replaced the soundboard but Fawzys ouds had some major problem the early years and
also the new soundboard collapsed after very short time.
My own Fawzy oud that is 5 years old is working great and never had any major problems.
Best wishes
Ronny
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Edward Powell
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why did they collapse?? too thin and weak?
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DaveH
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Yes Edward, they're built very lightly indeed, they're extremely responsive - similar weight, and in some ways tone, to a renaissance lute.
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Edward Powell
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you mean, soundboard around 1.5mm or even less?? ...are you talking about the oud Naseer is playing on this clip. To me this oud sounds incredibly
good.
but I am not always completely convinced that a weak and vulnerable soundboard necessarily means optimal tone.... I have build some instruments with
extremely thin soundboards and bracing, and the instrument lacked clear highs. ---my feeling is that the soundboard needs some areas of thinness,
and some areas of stiffness...
-but it all gets quite confusing - and there are so many factors involved. I know Faruk used very sturdy bracing on his ouds - but extremely thin
soundboards (1.65mm).
it seems to me that the soundboard needs a chance to get vibrating - so there should not be much bracing near the bridge... but thereafter there ought
to be some pretty solid braces in there for the high frequencies and overtones to grab on to.
I would be very curious to see a foto of the bracing of this oud naseer is playing. ---and compare that to the ouds he is currently using. To me his
recent tone is very cold in comparison.
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Edward Powell
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let me add something that Faruk told me several times.... that it saddened him that player would continuously pressure him to make a more and more
loud and responsive instrument.... which forced him to make his soundboards so thin -- which he feels it TOO thin and renders the instrument too
fragile and vulnerable.
He feels there is a tendency among players to want the RICH sound immediately - but he feels it is a better idea to make the soundboard more robust,
and then let the tone open up naturally with time. Saying that a slightly heavier top will take about a year or so of playing to open it up - but then
you have equally rich tone and a much stronger and hearty oud.
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suz_i_dil
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I'm wondering if it is not also coming from a difference in strings tension, out of the difference of oud.
I get very different kind of response in sound depending on the type of tension I'm using on the same oud.
Maybe at this time he was using a lower tension? Moreover if Fawzy ouds are thicker, it was probably not possible to put such high tension (check
Matthias Wagner P10 set for exemple...it goes high to 5 kilos for some courses).
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shareen
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What about the space between the notes?
One of the things that for me, offers true depth of emotion in ANY part of life, especially music, is to be able to hear and be totally at ease with
silence. When there is space between notes, when notes tumble out of a beautiful instrument like waves upon the sea, there is an amazing tranquility
that occurs and that is when the player and listener truly can achieve a state of bliss. For the player that must constantly express by impressing
with more and faster notes, they are missing the entire point. The great Munir Bashir expresses this the best, to me...so much space and thought
between each note. His playing let the tears in.
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Edward Powell
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| Quote: Originally posted by shareen | | One of the things that for me, offers true depth of emotion in ANY part of life, especially music, is to be able to hear and be totally at ease with
silence. When there is space between notes, when notes tumble out of a beautiful instrument like waves upon the sea, there is an amazing tranquility
that occurs and that is when the player and listener truly can achieve a state of bliss. For the player that must constantly express by impressing
with more and faster notes, they are missing the entire point. The great Munir Bashir expresses this the best, to me...so much space and thought
between each note. His playing let the tears in. |
EXACTLY!
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Sazi
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What a beautiful way of expressing it!
I agree wholeheartedly.
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FLIPAX
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whhoohhhh!
I agree also! Sazi!
I like the first and second albums of naseer because it sounded more poetic and enchanting compare from his recent days!
Spaces on the notes are the most important thing I think you play oud! Capturing the melacholic vibe especially if your oud has a bit of good
reverb.
whhhooooohh! Damn baby! ....Speaking of dynamics! Yeah! for me its better if I hear very good dynamic and melancholic oudist than rather playing bunch
of runs up and down like some electric guitar player. e.g Emir hakanz no offense to those players. Great Techniques But I rather Listen to electric
Guitar if thats the Case.
Just Stretching out my opinions here. Hope You all Understand. I did not want to offend other oudist.
Cheers
Philip
BTW (Edited. by Philip)
I'm Speaking of Virtuoso Electric Guitar Shredding if u know what I mean. They play bunch of notes to impress people. Not the Blues off course. Blues
Style is not what I meant here.
B.B. King Rules Man! Godbless his hands!
Every time I Hear The Oud, I fall into a Deep Long Trance of Perpetual Bliss!
"Naseem Al Rooh"
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Edward Powell
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But... in my opinion the same holds true for electric guitar (and all instruments for that matter). BBKING was the King of the blues not for his
speed but because of his phrasing - and in particular the gaps and spaces he left between the phrases!
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FLIPAX
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BTW (Edited. by Philip)
I'm Speaking of Virtuoso Electric Guitar Shredding if u know what I mean. They play bunch of notes to impress people. Not the Blues off course. Blues
Style is not what I meant here.
B.B. King Rules Man! Godbless his hands!
Every time I Hear The Oud, I fall into a Deep Long Trance of Perpetual Bliss!
"Naseem Al Rooh"
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Edward Powell
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...so many interesting off-shoots for discussion.
I think the "shredding" syndrome is what is happening all around us everywhere on the planet. FASTER AND FASTER AND FASTER. . . . . .
Every instrument is experiencing this ALSO OUD! Everyone's life is feeling the effects of this FAST MODERN WORLD where TIME IS MONEY. . . . etc
etc...
of course opitimised in the Eddie Van Halen's of the world
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FLIPAX
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HAHAHAAH LOL 
Good One Edward!
Some people can't seem to get out of the FAST FAST PLAYING WORLD!
More Showmanship More mechanical Playing and less Dramatic Scenery.....
U think so?
Philip
Every time I Hear The Oud, I fall into a Deep Long Trance of Perpetual Bliss!
"Naseem Al Rooh"
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Edward Powell
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this is something I contemplate concerning my own career. I love to play solo concerts with my partner: SILENCE.
...I think people enjoy this, but they need to wind down first 
http://www.youtube.com/user/edwardpowellmusic#p/u/9/KverV8vgV18
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