Egyptian Beginner Oud

Pictures and Soundfile.

Thank our for your reply Aymara!

I just received my Oud. It is bought from Egypt as mentioned on my first post. It has double strings. I have no musical or instrument experience at all. So I have no idea what strings it has...

I have included pictures in this post. Also an audio recording with open strings.

My question is.. is this a "real oud" or is it meant for decoration? For me the sound is OK but more towards a guitar sound.. It is probably tuned wrong (need help with that too). And is this oud suitable as an beginnner oud? Did I get it for good price? (with soft case).



Attachment: 5openstrings.mp3 (519kB)
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Quote: Originally posted by Falcony

It has double strings.

Like every oud

To be precise, the double strings are called courses and arabic ouds usually have 5 courses and a single deep bass string. Egyptian ouds often have only the 5 courses without the single bass string.

For further information about different tunings, check THIS page. Also check the rest of that website for further basic oud information.

That's hard to tell from a few photos and an MP3 file of a totally detuned oud But I'm very sceptic.

I would recommend trying good strings first. And you should take care of the tuning pegs ... cheap ouds usually have problems staying in tune.

This problem can often be solved with peg compound (violin soap) for violins. When you change the strings, you put this compound on the pegs where they contact the peg box. If this doesn't solve the detuning problem, you could put a bit of chalk above the compound on the peg. The soap makes the pegs turn smoothly and the chalk prevents them from slipping. Peg compound usally is hard dry soap without any parfume, which also inherits a bit of chalk.

But you should also keep in mind, that fresh strings need several days to settle, that means, it's normal that they detune fast. But after one week (minimum 2 days) this problem should be gone. If detuning is still a problem then, it's caused by the pegs.

And your oud has a further problem, I often saw on cheap ouds ... the fingerboard is varnished, which will wear out soon, will look ugly and might result in "flat" sounding strings, when gripped (not played open).

But your main problem now is, that you are a totally beginner, who might even need help in changing the strings and tuning the oud correctly ... btw ... I would recommend the most common arabic tuning for the beginning: C-FF-AA-dd-gg-cc (the big C is the mentioned single bass string). And you will need a TUNER and a microphone ... or buy a handheld tuner with integrated mic.

Do you have a friend, who plays guitar? He might be of great help for this first tasks.

Quote: Originally posted by Falcony

..., I have to "screw them in" when I tighten the strings so it doesnt glide back ...

That will still sound disharmonic ... btw ... the courses are counted from high to low:

1. course = c4
2. course = g3
3. course = d3
4. course = A2
5. course = F2

Regarding the +/- values the tuner shows ... try to keep them below 5 ... not easy, I know

And I would still recommend buying new strings for the standard tuning C-FF-AA-dd-gg-cc ... that sounds better and makes learning easier

Oh ... btw ... you can save a tuning profile for your oud in AP-Tuner ... the standard profile is guitar.

Happy tuning and testing

Quote: Originally posted by fernandraynaud

If you have a tuner with different temperaments like are used for baroque instruments, you can use a pythagorean or a Valotti setting.

I think that's too much for an absolute beginner

That's why I recommended the software AP-Tuner (as a free quick start), which uses A=440 Hz.

There it is again ... your great humor

Marina is a member here, and her book is good. It comes with a very useful DVD, where she shows all the fundamentals. The first part (and the DVD) will get you started very nicely.
The second part of her book is a collection of "songs" for people who read music already, but that's like a supplementary bonus.

I don't have Bilezikjian's book. It doesn't have a DVD, and since I didn't have a teacher, I wanted some video material.

Not sure what you mean by "the C-string has gone through the nut a little bit in depth". The high C course or the single low C string? And what is it doing at the nut? A string can only settle in the nut as far down as the slit is cut/filed, so what do you mean? The shape of the grooves/slits in the nut are very tricky, you don't want to modify them until you really understand, but a little pencil lead or graphite in the grooves can help the strings tune more smoothly.

The best investment as I mentioned before is OudProf's "Learn Maqamat on Oud v 2".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijZmTxkYsoE

There are videos on tuning, on right and left hand technique, and even reference booklets you can put on your pocket computer. For each of the over 70 core maqamat there is a text explanation, a video clip showing how it's played on the oud and at least one example with a diagram, views of the neck and fingering, usually two or three examples. Each maqam is tied to a body of tradition that is best learned from examples. You can take your time learning each of the maqamat, or only what you are interested in. It's a great way to immerse yourself in the foundations of Arabian music on the oud.

Buzzing comes in many forms. A certain amount of buzz wherever you are fingering is natural and what you want. The strings should be low on the fingerboard and they will vibrate against the wood in all sorts of ways. The fretless bass has what they call "mwhah", which is a specific form of buzz. The character of the oud sound includes light buzz. DO start with new strings.

p.s. re: String buzz. If a specific string buzzes a lot, the windings might be damaged, or the string sits too low in the bridge. You can raise an individual string on the bridge by pulling/tying it higher. An uglier buzz that occurs only when you play open strings and goes away when you finger them is nut buzz. The nut might be too low, or some grooves are cut too deep. You can add tiny pieces of cardboard in grooves to confirm the cause and as a temporary fix. If the buzzing occurs only when you finger specific notes then the buzzing is due to an unevenly worn or sanded fingerboard. If the buzzing happens when you play in specific areas up on the neck, say only near the 3rd "fret", then it's a warped neck. If you sight down the neck like a gun-barrel you can see most of these problems very clearly. A luthier at a guitar repair shop can fix a lot of minor issues that might give you headaches, very easily.

Pegs problem and question about tabs

Hi! I've been reading alot, general about the oud and also some basic music theory (there are good youtube videos for this). And I've also been watching guitar lessons for beginners.

The problem I'm facing right now is not with myself, but with the Oud I have itself. Its cheap and not good quality I know that.. but as a student I can not afford a better oud or oud lessons. But I think its better this why, because I learn about the mechanism of the oud and I'm interested in this as well.

So the problem is that it keeps detuning after a while, and I believe its because two things: bad strings and bad pegs. But it is still possible to tune it and practice notes on it, altough there is an physical obstacle which I noticed very early in getting to know this oud: One of the pegs is prevented from being "screwed in" in order to tighten the string, because of the whole that the string is in the peg (see pictures). So I can not tighten it too much it will get damaged.. problem is that its a bit loose and it doesnt work physically. What can I do ?

I had a question earlier regarding the nut and that "the c-string has gone through the nut a little bit in depth" And was wondering if that was normal so I took a picture on that as well, see last one.

I've been practing to hit some notes and I use the APtuner and fingerboard pdf which was posted in this thread in order to hit the right notes. Its going well and I really take my time and am patient. Whilst I learn music theory.. I have been looking at some Oud Tabs I found on this site: http://sites.google.com/site/oudguitare/lestablatures/listetabs
They seem to work fine with my tuning according to the author of the website. The song I'm focusing on right now in learning, is the very intro of Oum kalthooms "enta omri". But the intro on these Oud tabs doesnt seem to mimic the intro on http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeoF74Vu180 which I figured out is started by open strings A and then followed by open string G and then A3 (G-string second fret). But the Oud tabs on http://dc162.4shared.com/download/123377502/f1f59c73/Enta_Omri_02.p... doesnt seem to mimic these notes.

Hope you understand what I mean.

Quote: Originally posted by Falcony

What can I do ?

Consult a violin luthier and ask him to replace this piece of junk called nut ... he also can help you with the peg problem ... he drills a new hole for the string and then you can push it further in.

Also ... as stated clearly several times ... buy good strings! ... and peg compound.

Quote: Originally posted by Falcony

Or is this not recommended?

If it helps you, it's recommended

Use the tuner to find the "frets" and place fret markings at the side of the neck with adhesive tape so you can easily remove them later.

Quote: Originally posted by Falcony

Ok, so for a beginner.. what maqam or exercise is easiest to practice on?

Maqam rast ´+ Soundfile

Good start! Take a look at the details.

http://www.maqamworld.com/maqamat/rast.html

First of all, almost every maqam is like a western scale in that it consists of 7 notes plus the octave note, so it's convenient to consider it 8 notes total, where Rast starts on C and ends on the c an octave up. May as well play it that way.

Arabian tradition has a different name for what western tradition calls the same note an octave up, they call the base C "Rast" and the high c "Kardan", but it's an octave, C to c.

You're playing it like a major scale. Rast is not a C major scale. There are two main departures from a major scale:
- the E, the third note, is flattened a quarter tone, not quite down to E flat that we would consider a minor third, but lower than a major third.
- the B right below the C is flattened a quarter tone (to B half-flat) when playing on the way up and flattened a half tone (to B Flat) on the way down. If you end the scale on the high c, instead of on the B the way you did, you can nicely play the B differently on the up and down.

You can hear it very clearly here:
http://www.maqamworld.com/realaudio/maqamat/buzuq/maqam_rast_C.rm

This is not all that unusual, in western music the minor scale is often handled differently in ascending and descending melody lines, look up "melodic minor".

If you are not marking the neck or the strings, I think it's worth doing for a while, as it's a good way to see how the half flats lie between the "natural" notes.

The screen capture below is from OudProf's DVD. You can see how the B half-flat he is fingering is between the B natural and the B Flat, and the diagram shows how the B half-flat is played when ascending, and the B Flat when descending. The position of the c Kardan on the 2nd string I circled in red and the E natural( that is not used in Rast) I circled on the diagram in green.

Hijaz D