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What is it? contest

Dr. Oud - 5-28-2010 at 12:47 PM

I am initiating a contest I'd like to call:

WHAT IS IT ?!?

Identify what the repair is for (or why) and win a genuine Dr. Oud autographed (in english and Arabic) nylon mizrab.

Professional oud makers are ineligible (you know who you are).

Reda Aouad - 5-28-2010 at 12:58 PM

Although I know nothing about oud repairs, I will give it a shot.

If the rosette is hung this way it means that the face hasn't been pulled off of the body. So it must be something related to the bracings or maybe adjusting the neck from the inside if it has some screw to do so. Or is it to glue a crack in the back from the inside?

FastForward - 5-28-2010 at 01:14 PM

I think it is clear in the picture that the rosettes were removed to replace two broken pieces of the soundboard on the ring around the rosette. So the rosettes were removed, two new pieces were glued in there. Other work can be done too on the inside, if there is a loose brace it can be fixed.

Dr. Oud - 5-28-2010 at 01:21 PM

Quote: Originally posted by FastForward

I think it is clear in the picture that the rosettes were removed to replace two broken pieces of the soundboard on the ring around the rosette. So the rosettes were removed, two new pieces were glued in there. Other work can be done too on the inside, if there is a loose brace it can be fixed.

Good guess, and you are very observant that the ring around the rose was repaired, but alas, that's not what this picture is about, sorry. It is true that some brace repair was done, so the rose was removed, but this repair is after that and has some other thing going on.
What is it?

BTW the rose does not necessarily need to be removed to repair the face edge.

Dr. Oud - 5-28-2010 at 01:22 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Reda Aouad

Although I know nothing about oud repairs, I will give it a shot.

If the rosette is hung this way it means that the face hasn't been pulled off of the body. So it must be something related to the bracings or maybe adjusting the neck from the inside if it has some screw to do so. Or is it to glue a crack in the back from the inside?

nope

FastForward - 5-28-2010 at 01:28 PM

The other thing I can think of is fixing the bridge. You can also patch some holes/re-glue ribs in the back of the oud if they are not badly damaged.

You can also take the rosette out, and fix it or make a new one. It seems that it has a slot so it can be easily removed. But I highly doubt that this is the reason, cause the same old rosette is still there and removing the rosette would have been easier prior to reinstalling the broken pieces around the rosette.

bibo10 - 5-28-2010 at 01:29 PM

I think you are just installing the rosette after building the oud...or adding rosettes to an old oud, maybe to avoid opening the face

Reda Aouad - 5-28-2010 at 01:33 PM

Michael the rosette is a 100-year old. He can't be installing it. And the oud is old he can't be building it. And he can't install a rosette without removing the face because he won't be able to get it inside (I guess).

Is the rosette broken and you glued it? (But in that case your contest would be too easy)

bibo10 - 5-28-2010 at 01:35 PM

yea i thought it would be too easy, but that might be the point

and I think you can install the rosette after its built....lets hear it from the professor

FastForward - 5-28-2010 at 01:35 PM

No Reda, the rosette can be easily inserted after gluing the face. Check the picture, it has a slot so what you do is you insert the soundboard into the slot, turn the rosette into the oud, and then take the soundboard out of the slot.

paulO - 5-28-2010 at 01:39 PM

Okay, I got it -- you want to keep the rose with the oud it goes with, not lose it, misplace it or otherwise, just not ready to glue it in yet...so why not hang it where it won't go anywhere ?? :shrug:

Cheers...Paul

Reda Aouad - 5-28-2010 at 01:40 PM

Good to know! Thanks FastForward.

But if it can be easily inserted and removed, why is it hanging like this? I mean why isn't it just removed aside while work is performed?

bibo10 - 5-28-2010 at 01:42 PM

the rosette looks cracked at one point, so maybe thats why its just hanging while it gets fixed

Ararat66 - 5-28-2010 at 02:02 PM

Here's my assesment

Work needed to be done on a loose/cracked brace and the rosette was removed to gain access to the inside of the bowl. Unfortunately the rosette being old came apart in the process. So once the work was done inside the oud the broken parts of the rosette were reassembled on the inside of the oud body as the complete rosette is has a larger diameter than the sound hole and glued together.

The rosette was then suspended in the manner shown possibly during this assembly process also, to allow the glue to dry before resticking the rosette to the underside of the sound hole. Allowing the rosette to dry like this meant it would not stick to the inside of the oud.

This sounds to me like a convoluted and highly unlikely stab in the dark but its my best shot after a vey loooong week.

Cheers

Leon

alfaraby - 5-29-2010 at 01:33 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Ararat66

I'd bet on that !
This is exactly what I was about to say, but Leon just stated it much better than I could have done with my poor English !

Yours indeed
Alfaraby

alfaraby - 5-29-2010 at 01:38 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Dr. Oud

win a genuine Dr. Oud autographed (in English and Arabic) nylon mizrab.

Excuse me; but in Arabic we use to write Dr. with an O betweeb the T & R.
دكتـور
Just to let you know !

Yours indeed
Alfaraby

fernandraynaud - 5-29-2010 at 05:01 AM

The two new pieces of soundboard at the soundhole''s edge were not likely removed to let the Shamsa pass, as it looks bigger than the passage so created.

Richard has a sort Sherlock Holmes mentality, so he would not include a detail that's not relevant. Detective work is like oud-repair, the trick is to tie the pieces together, come what may. It would seem impossible to guess why the rosette was removed, but again the DrOud principle of unwasted information suggests that the answer lies before us.

Of course it's not impossible that he has strayed a little from all principles, and that in this case the instrument is not even an oud. I therefore propose that it was a multi-neck "Saroud" being repaired by a blind upholsterer from Cairo, after Edward Powell dropped it with the superglue still tacky, in that lonely apartment on the outskirts of Cairo. Those who "keep up with the Mike's Oud Forum" will remember that heat and humidity caused the original implosion of the instrument while a routine repair (or was it a Taqsim?) was about to be performed.

The combination rear-view-mirror-taxi-deodorizer-varmint-repellent hanging in the oud (misidentified as a "rosette" by many) was meant to prevent the animal tragedy that occurred in April, while the two new soundboard chips are part of an extremely ambitious and costly "double whammy Turkish soundboard" type upgrade, having nothing to do with the original structural collapse, but done entirely with authentic Dassault Nomex helicopter parts, and that is as yet incomplete (as of the photo DrOud provided) (3/2010).

Images of the chain reaction galloping catastrophe that befell the instrument (and most of the attending personnel, and their families) between March and May 2010, including the April Animal mishaps, and night-vision footage of the memorable Animal-Activist rescue, will be unveiled as soon as I am awarded the misspelled Risha for correctly identifying the oirginal repair as "just the inevitable routine neck job to lower the action, on both necks".

Reda Aouad - 5-29-2010 at 05:43 AM

Fernandraynaud,

If that's the case, I will send you a risha (autographed by me :rolleyes:

) as a gift

Sazi - 5-29-2010 at 06:15 AM

What the heck, he deserves one anyway, it was a great read, true or not :applause:

Ararat66 - 5-29-2010 at 10:35 AM

Ahh elementary my dear Udis

Here's a second guess and second guesses may not count - ok here goes ... the face needed repairs at the cracks around the sound hole. The contraption supporting the fragile rosette is set up and the string threaded through the rosette. The rosette is carefully removed and the thread means it can't fall into the bowl risking a breakage. Then the repair to the soundboard is done and this is where we are waiting for the glue to dry on the sound board whilst the rosette hangs awaiting to be glued into back place.

Not as good as your Fernand

Leon

ALAMI - 5-29-2010 at 10:59 AM

My guess is that the important part in the question is the "why", and I think that the why is the the dreadful buzz caused by the vibrating rosette and that's "why" it needed to be detached and reglued.
But Fernand's version of the facts remains the best.

MatthewW - 5-29-2010 at 11:08 AM

further to Fernand's expert analysis of the situation, I would like to put forward the premise that in the process of this repair Dr Oud is going to also place a new label with his photo into the oud, hence the need to have the shamsa out of the way. regards, MW

Dr. Oud - 5-29-2010 at 11:49 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Reda Aouad

Michael the rosette is a 100-year old. He can't be installing it. And the oud is old he can't be building it. And he can't install a rosette without removing the face because he won't be able to get it inside (I guess).

Is the rosette broken and you glued it? (But in that case your contest would be too easy)

We have a winner! well, actually I'm awarding three mizrabs.
1. Reda guessed that the rose is being glued.
2. Michael (bibo10) noticed the crack in the rose.
3. fernandraynaud deserves one for the most original and creative guess even if it is wrong.

The winners can send me their shipping address in U2 or to
droud2002@yahoo.com

The complete story is that the old horn rose broke while removing it for brace repair. If I glued it together outside the face, I couldn't get it back inside, even thought the edge was broken it still wouldn't fit. If I tried to glue it to the face, I didn't expect that I could align it accurately. So the suspension jig is actually a third hand, holding the rose up so I can secure it with one hand while positioning the broken piece with the other (I used forceps and tweezers). Gap filling cyanoacrylate (crazy glue) was used, with a drying agent applied when in position.

now wasn't that fun?

Thanks to Alfaraby for the Arabic spelling correction, I was using the Farsi spelling, which has no "o".

Reda Aouad - 5-29-2010 at 12:01 PM

Thanks Dr. Oud

It was really fun guessing.. especially for me as an ignorant in these matters. And I surely learned a lot from you and the members who tried to guess. I propose you always do such contests (but surely with no prizes).

Thanks again for the risha

Ararat66 - 5-29-2010 at 01:36 PM

:applause:

Leon

I just love problem solving - I think there are some of us that just have a Sherlock Holmes gene it just gets our brain cells buzzing - lovely detective work well done folks - otherwise it has been a seriously odd day ... long story!!!

Leon

paulO - 5-29-2010 at 04:45 PM

What ? No award for most off base guess ?? :rolleyes:

An evelope full of plastic dust from the mizrab making ?? :shrug:

Oh...Hi Richard -- cool contest, hope you're well.

Regards..Paul

fernandraynaud - 5-29-2010 at 05:33 PM

BTW, greets to Sazi and Read Aouad from Luttgutt ...

Sazi - 5-29-2010 at 06:30 PM

Thanks for passing that on, I've sent him an email.

Back to the thread...

Reda Aouad - 5-29-2010 at 11:42 PM

Thanks Fernand. Please salute him on my behalf as well.

bibo10 - 5-30-2010 at 11:08 PM

wow.....thank you very much Richard
Very cool...i will send you a u2u
It kinda feels good hahahah

Reda Aouad - 6-3-2010 at 11:42 AM

Just as a suggestion.. maybe you'd like to open a new thread for each new contest.. which would be better to follow and organize. My 2cents.

bibo10 - 6-6-2010 at 07:20 AM

Dr. Oud,

Thank you soo much for the risha...it's becoming my favorite as i play it

Reda Aouad - 6-16-2010 at 12:18 AM

Dr. Oud,

I just came back home from vacation.. and found your risha in my mailbox. It is amazing! I have been searching for ages for a risha made of that material and couldn't find any.. and it is now my favorite risha

Do you sell that material? And if so how can I order it? And if do you know where I can buy it from?

Thank you very much for the risha.

R.

Dr. Oud - 6-16-2010 at 08:53 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Reda Aouad

Dr. Oud,...Do you sell that material? And if so how can I order it? And if do you know where I can buy it from?

Thank you very much for the risha.

R.

You can find the material at most hardware stores. It's used to make zip ties, also used by police for hand cuffs, I don't sell it.

Reda Aouad - 6-16-2010 at 10:26 AM

And what is the material called ?

Dr. Oud - 6-16-2010 at 04:14 PM

nylon or polyethelene, similar strong flexible plastics

Reda Aouad - 6-16-2010 at 10:27 PM

Thank you very much Dr. Oud

In recognition of your help and support, I will be putting a link to your website on my personal website that will be published very soon. It's the least I can do.

Thank again.