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Setting-up my newly-acquired oud.

Terry Sleeper - 12-11-2010 at 05:48 AM

I am now the proud owner of this 4yr. old Michael Moussa oud:

Iraqi Munir Bashir-style, floating bridge, 62 cm scale-length (nut to bridge), soundboard - spruce (I think), back - rare zebrano wood.

I intend to tune it (low to high) F-AA-DD-gg-cc-ff.

Given the above specs:

1. What make / gauge of strings should I use?

2. Is there a diagram / vid on the Net explaining which string attaches to which peghead - it certainly does not appear to be like that of a 12-string guitar. One picture would be worth a hyundred words of explanation.

As a guitar-player I appreciate the importance of getting these things right so as to get the best out of the instrument - oh, and not running the risk of damaging it too!

Any advice is welcome.

Danielo - 12-11-2010 at 06:45 AM

Hi Terry,

I cannot help you really for question 1) as I use only fixed bridge ouds, that have different preferences.

You can try those (cheap and good on a fixed bridge oud).

http://ostriemusicsupplies.com/marioud-ar.htm

You need to ordrer the set for Arabic tuning + a ff pair of treble strings (of course you won't use the low C string of the set). The tension of these strings is quite low, so you may or may not like the sound but you won't damage the oud.

Abour question 2), see here :

http://www.oudcafe.com/stringing_and_tuning.htm

the picture is for C-FF-AA-DD-cc but of course with your tuning you can use the same.

I advise you to wind carefully the strings on the pegs, in order to avoid string crossing
in the pegbox.

Check also that the mobile bridge is at its exact place; the total string length
from the nut to the bridge should be three times the length of the fingerboard from the nut to the neck joint,

Good luck !

Dan

Dan

Terry Sleeper - 12-11-2010 at 02:17 PM

Thanks Danielo.

In addition to the above advice, these web pp are helpful too:
Which strings to attach to which peg:
http://www.oud.eclipse.co.uk/stringing.html

A guitarist's guide to the oud - basic and useful for guitar player's who are taking the plunge:
http://www.dglenn.org/chords/oud-for-guitarists.html

Sazi - 12-11-2010 at 02:56 PM

Hi Terry, congrats on the start of your oud collection

For the benefit of yourself and others who may look at this thread for information, pretty much everything anyone needs to know about Oud is here in the forum.

The FAQ's thread... READ THIS FIRST!

http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=6809

If you really have to do it the hard way... There is a <Search> button in the top left corner of these very pages, it is more useful if you actually use it! :rolleyes:

For instance a search on <Strings 62cm> reveals no less than 15 threads, and for <Stringing diagram> a dozen, with hundreds of responses, including all the diagram links.

Again, if you read the FAQ thread you probably wouldn't need to search.

Have fun.

Terry Sleeper - 12-11-2010 at 04:11 PM

Point taken, Sazi.

All I would add is that the advice given in various places on this and other forums in respect of tuning, stringing, and so on differs markedly. It is that which is confusing to the uninitiated.

Thank you for your advice.

Sazi - 12-11-2010 at 06:36 PM

Sorry, didn't mean to sound abrupt or make a point, just to present the most useful information for the benefit of all, something like <give a man a fish and he eats for a day, teach him how to fish and he can eat every day>

It sure does differ markedly, and as each person has different ideas about what good/tight/loose tension is or what the ideal string height is at the neck joint etc., combined with the fact that each and every oud is unique and often has it's own ideas about which risha or strings sound and feel the best, then all up you're still going to spend quite a bit of time and money experimenting with tunings/tensions/rishas etc. to discover what works for you on that particular oud.

Enjoy the journey.

Aymara - 12-12-2010 at 05:05 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Terry Sleeper

1. What make / gauge of strings should I use?

Maybe give the La Bella a try.

Terry Sleeper - 12-12-2010 at 07:27 AM

You're right, Sazi - it's the same with the guitar, as I know from years of playing. The only really big difference between the 2 instruments is that, with very few exceptions, guitar-tunig is standardised (low to high E-A-D-G-B-E). There are other tunings (for example, for slide-guitar) but they are pretty rare. This is not the case with the oud - given the instrument's ancient lineage it would be amazing if it were! As you know, many many oud tunings abound and look as if they are here to stay. This is a huge, if singular, big difference for a guitar-player to get his head around (the lack of frets on the oud pales in comparion, I think).

That said, without the assistance from members of this forum (yourself included - and Aymara, too - see comment below) I'm pretty certain I would have been seriously considering whether to pick up an oud at all by now. It's an interesting point: even allowing for the fact that nothing will ever put-off the really serious enquirer, how many potential oud-players have given up the instrument before they ever really got started on it? Makes you think.

Aymara - that link for the strings is bang-on the money. Thank you for your help.

Aymara - 12-12-2010 at 08:01 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Terry Sleeper

... guitar-tunig is standardised (low to high E-A-D-G-B-E).

A few weeks ago I argued the same and had to learn recently, that I was wrong. Nowadays many guitarists use drop down tunings in D and even C ... the later mainly in Heavy Metal. You'll even find strings for drop tunings ... and guess what ... you also can buy so called Baritone guitars optimized for these tunings.

Times are changing

Have fun with the new strings :airguitar:

Terry Sleeper - 12-12-2010 at 01:04 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Aymara

Quote: Originally posted by Terry Sleeper

... guitar-tunig is standardised (low to high E-A-D-G-B-E).

Have fun with the new strings :airguitar:

. . . and there are tenor guitars (with 4 strings); musicians as famous as Keith Richards of the Stones whose idiosyncratic tuning has baffled many an aspiring rocker attempting to reproduce his licks; folk virtuoso Martin Carthy, whose fingering patterns betray a strange tuning-pattern; and so on.

The point I was making is that the numbers of guitar-players who as a matter of course (no pun intended) tune their instruments other than E-A-D-G-B-E are statistically insignificant. Judging from what I have found out so far, that could never be said about oud players!

Kelly - 12-12-2010 at 02:05 PM

Hi Terry

Welcome and best wishes with your new oud. As Chris,Sazi and Dan have pointed out you will find by process of your own discovery which strings suit that particular oud. However generally with floating bridge ouds higher tension strings help move the sound board- bit like arch top guitars. Try Mari strings but you might find them a bit on the light side whereas Pyramid and Aquilas may be better suited tension wise.

Have fun!

Terry Sleeper - 12-12-2010 at 03:10 PM

Thanks, Kelly.

Just hit on this thread on these forums - "The History of the Floating Bridge":
http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=10069

Fabulous stuff. As a history graduate (mostly medieval), this is engrossing material.

What a knowledgeable lot contributors to these forums are!

Ararat66 - 12-12-2010 at 03:18 PM

Hello Terry

Where are you in the UK? there's quite a few of us around - Kelly and a number of others are around Manchester and Yorkshire, in fact I was at Kelly's this Friday but all the way from Portsmouth myself .. and there are many others in between.

I also came to oud from guitar, and the main difference in terms of getting to know the oud for me, wasn't tuning or even no frets, but has been the 'oudiness' of the oud. Sounds daft but what I mean is that it may take a while before you stop sounding like a guitarist playing oud - they are very very different instruments.

What you will find though is your fingers are probably already flying so then I would suggest you listen to loads and loads of oud players to get the feel and range of tones plus the grooves and rhythms that this instrument inspires. Of course practice loads but really listen well untill you can feel the music in your hands.

The tunings are nowhere near as wide or as way out as the guitar to be honest if you think of the sheer range and complexity of many fingerstyle guitar tunings and say Nashville tuning etc - the oud tends to stay for the most part within a more steady range based around the highest 4 strings tuned to BEAD (Turkish/Armenian/Greek style ouds) or a tone down at ADGC (Arabic ouds), and some Iraqi tuning which add a high F above. The changes are usually in the two lower courses, so it isn't too complicated really (says me who can barely start to read music

)) ... but you get the gist.

Anyway Terry, welcome to this brilliant forum and to the wonderful and utterly magical instrument that is the oud.

Cheers

Leon

Aymara - 12-13-2010 at 11:03 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Terry Sleeper

The point I was making is that the numbers of guitar-players who as a matter of course (no pun intended) tune their instruments other than E-A-D-G-B-E are statistically insignificant.

I thought so too, but the last weeks I found out in several guitar forums world wide, that times changed ... their number is more significant as you believe. It seems, more than 50% of todays young Rock guitarists use drop tunings. They do so, because their idols do it, e.g. Zakk Wylde (ex Ozzy Osbourne band).

Terry Sleeper - 12-22-2010 at 01:59 PM

Well . . . I've just discovered that attempting to re-string an oud (with Mari strings) is an "interesting" way to spend a couple of hours.

FF-AA-DD-gg-cc-ff is what I was aiming for. However, there is no way that the 12th string (one of the low F's) will reach the necessary peg (it's a half-inch short, at least); and the 11th string only JUST stretched to the required peg - and then came off and will not go back on. Looks like it's AA-DD-gg-cc-ff, then.

As someone who has never had any problems whatsoever in stringing-up guitars hundreds of times over may years, I have to confess that the thought of having to re-string an oud regularly fills me with foreboding. Hard work.

I'm going to bed now!

ameer - 12-22-2010 at 06:57 PM

Consider getting single replacement strings from Jameel at http://khalafoud.com/daddario.htm

Terry Sleeper - 12-23-2010 at 08:51 AM

Thanks, Ameer.

I think the problem is that the Daniel Mari strings which I have are made for a fixed-bridge oud and not an oud with a floating bridge - the lower strings are simply not long enough - they will NOT reach from the end of the oud to the requisite pegs. Damn!

So (deep breath): can anyone please advise which manufacturer makes strings which ARE long enough for an oud with a floating bridge?

I am not really bothered about the tuning any more - believe it or not. I just want to get the oud strung!

Kelly - 12-23-2010 at 10:33 AM

Hi Terry

Sorry that your Mari Strings dont stretch- yeah, you have to account for the extra length below the bridge to the tail block.
Can you use the old FF strrings for now?- many players start with 5 courses as it makes learning the main melody strings easier -bass string can be introduced later. its common just to use one F so choose the shortest . If you know the gauge in mm or thou inch (probably 0.034-36) you can use a single wound nylon guitar ( = A string approx). many players mix and match to suit their particular instrument and playing style.

Try Jameel for advice and strings quote total string legth and tuning: -his prices are very reasonable and great service from over the pond.

If you are in striking distance to Manchester and got snow shoes drop us a line and call over.

Regards

Aymara - 12-23-2010 at 12:05 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Terry Sleeper

can anyone please advise which manufacturer makes strings which ARE long enough for an oud with a floating bridge?

If you're located in the USA, ask Jameel. If you're in Europe, ask Matthias.

Both are members of the forums and can definitely help you to get good strings that fit.

Terry Sleeper - 1-8-2011 at 01:11 PM

Still trying to string the oud after the Xmas / New Year break.

Usual problems - strings slipping, popping out of the bottom end of the instrument, no way will the 11th string reach the requisite peg (hence improvisation called for), and so on.

If I'd have had a swear box in my living-room it would have been full to overflowing by now.

But I am a patient man. 40 years of guitar playing have made me patient.

Terry Sleeper - 1-14-2011 at 11:58 AM

Well, it's taken over a month - allowing, of course for the Xmas / New Year break - but I finally got the oud strung (CFFAADDggcc) and tuned.

Can't play a bloody thing on it, of course, but I'm falling in love with the tone. As with a little CF Martin guitar, I keep wanting to peep inside the soundbox and see what magic is giving such a BIG sound. But I know that it's down to materials and workmanship.

Mr. Moussa certainly knows his onions!

Now all I have to do is learn how to play it.

Aymara - 1-14-2011 at 12:33 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Terry Sleeper

Now all I have to do is learn how to play it.

Well being a guitarist and bassist before I learned oud, I thought: "Well, three courses are like on guitar AAddgg." And I started with that, concentrating to get a feel for the fretless fingerboard first.

Maybe that's make sense for you too as a first step.

Terry Sleeper - 1-16-2011 at 01:46 PM

http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=9565#pid790...

I am drawing encouragement from the above thread.

Call it wimping-out, but I think my oud-playing future resides with tuning the instrument like a (12-string) guitar.

Aymara - 1-16-2011 at 01:50 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Terry Sleeper

..., but I think my oud-playing future resides with tuning the instrument like a (12-string) guitar.

Try CEEAAddggcc first ... it's a good compromise.

Terry Sleeper - 1-17-2011 at 11:38 AM

Thanks, Aymara, but now I have CCFFBbBbEbEbggcc I am finding my way around the instrument nicely. I feel like a bit of a cheat, but since there is no real "standard" tuning of ouds anyway I can live with it.

It's good having two low "CC"s - why waste a peg? - but I am finding that the 12th string keeps slipping out of the saddle on the floating bridge. Is there some sort of remedy for this (apart from not bashing the strings too hard)? Or is it a price one has to pay for being greedy and wanting a 12th string? Any advice would be welcome.

The CCs and FFs do rattle a little too. Again, it may be my heavy-handedness, but if there is a way of stopping this from happening I'd be obliged if anyone could let me know. (Perhaps different tension strings?).

But - and I hope that this heretical practice won't get me chucked of the Forum - I am finding that it is easier, much easier, to use a BIG guitar plectrum rather than a risha. The risha I have is very flimsy, so perhaps I need to grab a bag of ones with varying degrees of firmness and persist until I find one that suits me. But, to be honest, at this point in time I can't see me abandoning a plectrum any more than I can forsee using anything other than a "guitar" tuning for the strings.

Wedged in the airmchair with my oud, I am getting to love it - the tone, the 1/4 notes, the constant surpises it offers as I skid and fumble around the fingerboard. And when I'm not playing it I prop it up in the spare armchair and just look at it.

It must be love.

Kelly - 1-17-2011 at 02:46 PM

Hi Terry
Glad you're getting to grips with your oud.
1. Slipping 12thbass string: you might try cutting the notch in the saddle a little deeper with a fine file as long as this does not lower the action too much and cause buzzing. However, its perfectly acceptable to have bottom string as a single course.
2. rattling bottom strings suggest you could go for slightly higher tension strings in that area but again this is acceptable and is often found with new strings- let them settle and play in for a bit longer.
3. The horny question of risha vs plectrum. I guess each to their own-I find that a risha gives much more versatility, changes in dynamics and tone that you will find very hard to produce with a plectrum. I would suggest that you persevere with a range of rishas- it will take time and patience but you will be able to produce -I think- a fuller tone. Similarly with guitar tuning you might find limitations too.

The great thing about exploring the oud is that you can experiment and find your own wayand you will get through alot of different risha/pectrum string tunings in the process! Happy exploration

Terry Sleeper - 1-18-2011 at 11:00 AM

Kelly:

Thanks for your encouraging words!

I would be loath to go down the cutting / filing road as I would seriously be running the risk of wrecking the instrument. I've seen too many guitars ruined by amateur tampering.

I would like to keep 2 x CC strings. Safest to see if the strings settle-in, I think.

I take your point about rishas - I think I need to try a few different ones, certainly firmer than the one the seller of the oud kindly supplied with it. It must be possible to buy a few rishas with different thicknesses (?)

The "guitar" tuning is here to stay, though.

And I have just been informed that Bernd Kuerschner at:
http://webmail.tiscali.co.uk/cp/ps/Mail/ExternalURLProxy?d=tiscali....
- can supply extra long strings (115cm).

No excuse after that for not stringing-up properly.

Aymara - 1-20-2011 at 09:29 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Terry Sleeper

t's good having two low "CC"s - why waste a peg?

Aah, ok, I see ... a floating bridge oud with 12 pegs ... then the standard tuning would be FFAAddggccff.

I'm a bit worried, if your tuning has a higher overall tension than the standard, especially because of the double CC.

It might be worth opening a new thread about this question ... it might be overseen here.

Quote:

but I am finding that the 12th string keeps slipping out of the saddle on the floating bridge.

I bet, that is caused by the changed tuning ... usually there would be a double high ff course ... thinner strings.

Quote:

Or is it a price one has to pay for being greedy and wanting a 12th string?

As said before, 12 strings are not uncommon with floating bridge ouds, but usually these are tuned to FFAAddggccff ... so, higher than your tuning.

Quote:

But - and I hope that this heretical practice won't get me chucked of the Forum

Ok, we have a lot of traditionalists around here, but ... no, never, not because of a guitar tuning ... this is not the first discussion regarding that.

Quote:

But, to be honest, at this point in time I can't see me abandoning a plectrum any more than I can forsee using anything other than a "guitar" tuning for the strings.

You will change your mind ... just a matter of time

I got convinced by a selfmade horn risha ... it causes such a great sound, no guitar plectrum can achieve that!

Quote:

It must be love.

No, it's magic

Ararat66 - 1-20-2011 at 10:12 AM

Hi Terry

I think it must be lurve :rolleyes:

I would encourage you really strongly to persevere with the risha - I feel your pain, it took me ages to get my risha technique to a point at which it simply cannot be replaced by a plectrum, particularly when playing some of the flicks and ornamentations.

It really is worth it and imho is very much part of the nature of the oud. Once you get the right risha then the action follows, and then you find you can play well with more types of rishas, but you need the right risha to get you going. I still have a way to go, there is so much to this instrument, but I have noticed breakthroughs and developments in my playing which is a good experience.

Where are you in the UK? try to get to a UK oud meeting if you can. I'm down here in Portsmouth and if you are nearish I'll happily help you out where I can.

Cheers

Leon

littleseb - 1-22-2011 at 06:00 AM

Am I really the only one on here who uses a risha for playing guitar?

Terry Sleeper - 1-23-2011 at 09:21 AM

Quote: Originally posted by littleseb

Am I really the only one on here who uses a risha for playing guitar?

Lol! That's the spirit!

littleseb - 1-24-2011 at 02:42 AM

Hahaha, I really do! Probably because I'm a lot better on the oud than guitar.......believe it or not I even use oud tuning for guitar, but it doesn't really work.

Terry Sleeper - 1-24-2011 at 01:02 PM

Aymara - thank you for your advice.

Just to clarify: when you say:-

"Aah, ok, I see ... a floating bridge oud with 12 pegs ... then the standard tuning would be FFAAddggccff.

I'm a bit worried, if your tuning has a higher overall tension than the standard, especially because of the double CC."

- do you mean that, if I am to use a "guitar" tuning, then I should string the oud with a FFAAddggccff set, tuned to FFBbBbEbEbAbAbccff (i.e. with "guitar" string intervals)? The current strings - CCFFBbBbEbEbggcc - seem WAY too slack, the lower ones especially rattling like unholy Hell.

Also, I do take on board your (and others) comments about using a risha. I have a cheap plastic one and feel as if I could use something MUCH firmer - though I have been advised that, since floating-bridge ouds are loud anyway, I need to go easy with the risha I use. I'm a bit confused here.

I am very grateful for all of the advice offered by people on this thread. Without these forums I'd have thrown in the towel!

Aymara - 1-24-2011 at 01:26 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Terry Sleeper

do you mean that, if I am to use a "guitar" tuning, then I should string the oud with a FFAAddggccff set, tuned to FFBbBbEbEbAbAbccff ...

It's worth a try ... you could also try EEAAddggbbee ;-) with such a set, which is even better, because no string needs to be tuned up, but only a half tone down. And you have real guitar tuning ... hehe

Quote:

I have a cheap plastic one ...

I tried them too and always got back to the plectrum, until I got a HORN risha ... that baby is unbeatable in sound qualities. To get a vague feeling what I'm talking about, try a horn plectrum first.

Have a look ... someone here on the forum sold horn rishas recently ... mine is selfmade by my sweetheart out of a piece of buffallo horn we bought on a medieval market.

Terry Sleeper - 1-24-2011 at 01:50 PM

Thanks for that.

The main consideration then is getting the extra-length strings (115cm) so that they can be attached to the correct pegs - the "standard" length strings are no good for the floating-bridge model, they are just too short.

I already have a set of CCFFAADDggcc on order, so I will give them a whirl first (just to see if they rattle too!), though I think the "higher" tuning is the way to go.

Much obliged for your kind advice.

Aymara - 1-24-2011 at 02:02 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Terry Sleeper

The main consideration then is getting the extra-length strings (115cm) ...

The FFAAddggccff sets are designed for floating bridge ouds as far as I know ... maybe contact Matthias in Germany or Jamel in the USA ... don't remember your location.

Terry Sleeper - 1-25-2011 at 03:51 AM

Thanks again, Aymara.

An EAAddggccff set is available, with an extra E if desired (which it is).

That looks like the one to go for.

Aymara - 1-25-2011 at 09:06 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Terry Sleeper

An EAAddggccff set is available, with an extra E if desired (which it is).

Well, then you only have to tune the high ccff courses a half tone lower and you can play real guitar tuning.

littleseb - 1-25-2011 at 11:21 AM

Out of interest....what is to be gained from tuning an oud like a guitar and playing it with a guitar pick?
Yes, you might be more familiar with the standard guitar tuning and a standard guitar pick, but aren't oud and guitar two different instruments and should therefor be treated as such?
As an oud starter there's a lot to learn, so you might as well start from scratch - with a simple tuning and a risha. Otherwise you will surely run into problems at a later stage. What if somebody gives you a few useful hints and you have to transpose the fingering on the spot? What if you see an amazing player on Youtube and you want to copy a few things? Same goes for the risha. Only a real risha can produce that soulful tone we all know and love about the oud.
Sure, you are free to tune your oud anyway you like and pick it with whatever suits you best, but that real sound and feeling can only be produced by learning proper technique which takes people years and years to master. It would be a real shame to learn for a while only to have to start all over again once the limitations of a certain tuning or picking technique become obvious....
Just my 50p's worth, of course.
Have fun!

Aymara - 1-25-2011 at 11:38 AM

Quote: Originally posted by littleseb

Out of interest....what is to be gained from tuning an oud like a guitar and playing it with a guitar pick?

For former guitarists it CAN (not must) be a quicker learning experience.

If you take this strange approach, you can concentrate an getting used to the fretless fingerboard first. The second step would be exchanging the plectrum against a risha to learn the correct picking technique. The next step is the tuning.

And then ... at last ... the switch from Europian to Arabic music.

As I said ... it can, not must.

But as you guessed ... it has a downside ... there's the risk of getting used to improper techniques, which is very time consuming to get rid of. So I think, though above approach might work nicely, the phases shouldn't be too long.

I myself started with standard arabic tuning, but with a plectrum ... but only 2 weeks.

littleseb - 1-25-2011 at 11:49 AM

Yeah, whatever gets people going is fine by me, and I really didn't want to sound dismissive.
The main thing is to feel your way into the instrument, by any means. And then you have to know where you are going, hahaha!

Aymara - 1-25-2011 at 01:47 PM

Quote: Originally posted by littleseb

... I really didn't want to sound dismissive.

I think your hint about getting used to false techniques is important.

Quote:

And then you have to know where you are going, hahaha

Let me quote Frank Sinatra: "My Way"

Ararat66 - 1-25-2011 at 02:02 PM

I tend to agree with Littleseb, I came to oud after guitar (I still play the guitar aswell of course) and never even bothered trying to retune or seriously use a plectrum - its just a different instrument and not really that much like a guitar in my experience ... I love to play both btw

)

There is a very distinct feel and amazing breadth of sound and soulfulness that the oud can make and the risha gives you access to a certain springyness and flick which generates great rhythm and 'groove' which you can hear in lots of oud playing.

It was that that attracted me to the oud in the first place so that's what I chase - I'm really getting this groove now and it is very nice to feel.

I never had a problem going from oud to guitar and back again and I'm not vastly talented - they are just different. Another thing to remember is that the left hand fingering (if you are right handed orthodox, not goofy) responds to the right hand movement, they tend to mirror each other.

One observation I learnt from Nizar Rohana was to try not to hook the thumb of the left hand to far over the fingerboard - keep the palm a little more open and don't hold on to the oud too tightly as you will tend to pull the neck and base of the bowl back towards your body. In the same way don't hold the risha too tightly, stop occasionally and try to take the risha from your hand without moving the right hand - it should slide out smoothly with minimal drag.

Each hand will reciprocate the other and the open hand tends to give a very 'open hearted' soulful range to your sound as shaped by the left hand and driven by the risha - the oud is really soulful and you will want to fully feel that.

Good luck

Leon

Terry Sleeper - 1-26-2011 at 10:58 AM

Thanks for all of the comments, gents - much appreciated.

Two points come to mind:

1. What is a "simple" tuning? The fact that the oud has no standard tuning surely make "transposition" a necessity anyway - unless both players are using the same tuning, a scenario far less likely than 2 guitar players learning from each other;
2. I do keep trying to use a risha sent to me with the oud - a cheap plastic one, but (yes, I admit) offering far greater flexibility than even my favourite guitar pick. I would like to try a heavier risha, though (as stated above) a "floating bridge" oud is supposed to be a loud thing anyway (by oud standards) and a lighter risha is recommended. No wonder I'm confused.

Sam - 1-27-2011 at 12:39 AM

Soundboard is not spruce , It's pine wood.

littleseb - 1-27-2011 at 02:55 AM

(from bass to top) d-g-a-d-g-c is a simple arabic tuning used by many beginners. it is advisable not to go any higher than the high c as it keeps your left hand busy and forces you to change positions. give it a go and see how you get on.
with regards to the risha - i would go with whatever you have. in my opinion it is a lot more important to generally get used to it. having too many rishas to chose from can be confusing as well. don't blame your lack of skill on the risha! a lot of people play very soft cheap plasic rishas (including myself) and sound amazing (excluding myself).
get used to what you have, which i'm sure won't take more than a few weeks. you can always swap for something else later to harden or soften your preferred sound or style.
and, most importantly, have fun!
let us know how you get on!!

Jimwilson - 2-14-2011 at 06:43 PM

I'm uk based aswell although north of the border, in auld reekie (Edinburgh). If anyone knows any oud players around Scotland give me a shout with their names/contact details because I certainly haven't seen any.

Good to see you're getting on and enjoying the oud Terry. Although the transition from guitar can be confusing and the several hundred opinions on each issue baffling, it;s a worthwhile journey.

I started playing oud in a heretical way, being a dilruba (indian cello) player. I basically mucked around with the ragas I played on that instrument as well as using it to mimick scottish pipe tunes (it;s very good for the sustain and ornamentation.) I've finally started trying to learn maqamat and play the thing 'properly' - that's been the most confusing and exciting step of all.

Terry Sleeper - 4-2-2012 at 11:22 AM

Well, it's just over a year down the line and although I like the oud I simply cannot get used to the bowl-shaped back of my oud, especially after playing my Gibson acoustic guitar.

Perhaps I ought to try an oud which is much smaller in size - a Turkish-style one.

I know it sounds a bit wimpy, but are the smaller-bodied ouds - simply because they ARE smaller - easier to hold and feel comfortable with than the larger ones?

Luttgutt - 4-2-2012 at 11:48 AM

Yes! Much easier to hold and play :-)

I have sold all my arabic babes (exept for the Nahats and the old ones :-)), and got me 6 beautiful Sukar custom made turkish size..
And never regret it!!

Good luck

Jody Stecher - 4-2-2012 at 12:06 PM

I'm coming in a bit late to this thread but it might be worth pointing out that there IS a standard tuning for oud, appearances to the contrary. In all existing tunings the four highest courses are tuned a fourth apart. That is the same arrangement as the four *lowest* courses of guitar standard tuning. So you already know how to use that tuning. It is only in the lower courses that the variety of tuning occurs.

Quote: Originally posted by Terry Sleeper

1. What is a "simple" tuning? The fact that the oud has no standard tuning surely make "transposition" a necessity anyway

Giorgioud - 4-2-2012 at 12:22 PM

Hello Terry,
I followed with interest the thread involving your peripecies with stringing the oud, and I learned a lot in the process. As I always do 'round here.
With regards to the difference between Turkish and Arabic ouds: I have one specimen of both and I must say I really feel the difference. After playing the big Arabic one the Turkish feels much more easy to handle.
But the Arabic one has a richness of sound which is very appealing, whereas the Turkish one has an intricate tapestry of harmonics. Pro and cons in every one. So, really it depends from what you're most attracted to in terms of sonority, and how much you're willing to put up with regarding the obvious discomforts (I'm a small fella, and the Arabic oud's bowl sometimes seems to ask too much stretching for my short right arm...

)