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Oud #1

bulerias1981 - 12-15-2010 at 10:33 AM

Hi all. After a year of delays, finally I've started to make some progress on my first oud. Here are some photos. The ribs are small, so there will be many. Should be a total of 23. So far I've completed roughly 2/3s of the bowl.

paulO - 12-15-2010 at 01:38 PM

Pretty nice looking wood with some neat grain -- what type of wood is it ? Thanks for the photos and I look forward to the next update.

Cheers,

PaulO

bulerias1981 - 12-15-2010 at 09:18 PM

Thanks. Its dark walnut. Hard to see how pretty it is, cause theres glue all over the surface of the bowl. That will get cleaned up once all the ribs are on.

Kelly - 12-16-2010 at 11:05 AM

Nice work there you;ve given my delayed project a boost- need to get the glue pot out!
Keep the photos coming
Regards

paulO - 12-16-2010 at 11:19 AM

Dude...dark walnut -- that's awesome ! Way to go. Regards..PaulO

SamirCanada - 12-17-2010 at 04:48 AM

Hey nice to see another oud project on the forums!

but if I can give you 1 word of advice, try not put that much glue. Just a very tinny bead of glue is more than enough.
I just feel for you... when it comes time to scrape that glue off it will be very hard on your scrapers and it will really be demanding on your forearms... then again maybe you want the workout?

bulerias1981 - 12-18-2010 at 10:14 PM

Samir,

Thanks for the advice. I'm using hyde glue. It should come off easily. My method is I pin the "tuned' rib into place, then I apply the hot hyde glue on onto the surface and massage it in between the ribs, then tape it. Not much time to work with this glue as it gels quickly. Its really a thin layer of glue, and I already scraped a section off to see how it is and its not so bad.
Two more ribs and I'm done with the bowl.

jdowning - 12-19-2010 at 05:26 AM

Good to see that you are using hide glue for the rib joints.
When using hide glue for rib, sound board and sound board to bowl joints it is necessary to use a hot iron to remelt the glue. If a joint is closed when the glue has gelled the joint will be weak and may fail.

The centuries old method for gluing rib joints of ouds and lutes using hide glue is to apply glued paper strips over the joint - ironing them in place (as well as remelting the glue) as you work along the joint. The paper is immediately set in place by the heat of the iron pulling the joint faces tightly together as the glue shrinks. The added advantage is that the paper strips covering the outside of the bowl act as temporary reinforcement of the bowl preventing any danger of joint separation when the bowl is removed from the mold (if a mold is used) and otherwise worked upon before the all important paper reinforcement strips have been applied to the rib joints inside the bowl.
The exterior of the bowl is then finished by removal of the dry paper strips with a cabinet scraper or by first moistening the paper bit by bit prior to scraping.
It all sounds a bit complicated but in practice it is a straightforward procedure with no need to rush things and ensures close fitting and strong joints.

I use a miniature electric iron available from most model/hobby shops but a standard household iron - although a bit clumsy - can also be used.

I describe the process in some detail for gluing rib, sound board and sound board to bowl in the topic "Old Oud - New Project".

In your case, to be safe, you might want to apply strips of masking tape across the outside of the bowl as temporary reinforcement in the absence of the glued paper.
Good luck.

SamirCanada - 12-19-2010 at 06:09 AM

Bulerias, I know you are using hide glue. I am telling you, it dries to an almost glassy substance and it is quite hard to scrape off when it has dried. All you need is a small bead of glue on the side of the rib that will be glued. take your time to apply the glue dont be scared to let it gel.
then place it on the rib it will be glued to and start working the joint with a heat source. You can use the tried trusted and true technique that our colleague Jdowning above describes or you can use a heat gun on the lowest setting to resoften the glue as you work along the joint and press the ribs together to squeeze out little tinny beads of glue. I find this method less messy and I dont need to use paper strips to prevent the glue from touching the hot iron

Sazi - 12-19-2010 at 06:17 AM

Quote: Originally posted by SamirCanada

I am telling you, it dries to an almost glassy substance and it is quite hard to scrape off when it has dried.

Hey Samir, maybe you left it too thick and too long? I don't know, but I've used it recently on a couple of repairs (you saw the photo of the broken head and neck of my newest oud) and found it scraped off nice and easy, (and the joints, under all that string stress, have held).

Nice to see an oud project with more ribs, look forward to seeing more progress pic's and hearing this one finished.

FastForward - 12-19-2010 at 08:39 AM

Bluerias, I second what Samir said regarding the use of too much glue. I was thinking the same as I did my oud but it was a real pain to remove it. Took many many hours of scraping and when I that was not enough I pulled the random orbital sander and used it to remove the rest. It took about 2.5hours with 60Grit paper on the ROS.

One note is I did apply quite a bit of it and not just a think layer. Maybe next time.

bulerias1981 - 12-20-2010 at 12:56 AM

I used a heat gun for violin making/repairs, it is a good method. However, I have tried to scrape off some glue and it comes off fairly easy.. so not sure if were using the same hyde glue or not. Also, its 23 ribs, so that means many joints which means more glue.

Ararat66 - 12-20-2010 at 11:39 AM

Just a thought - would an excess of hide glue soak into the bowl wood and compromise its acoustic reflectivity so that however much scraping it would have gone too far.

I may well be wrong but it is just an observation.

Good work and lovely wood.

Cheers

Leon

bulerias1981 - 12-21-2010 at 09:19 PM

Here is the latest. Everything is scraped. Worst than what I thought it would be, yet not as bad as everyone was scaring me! lol

However the symmetry is not perfect on both sides. I'm not sure how that happened. I didn't use a mold obviously, so I'm assuming this is one of the cons of not using a mold. And I'm not sure what that means for the rest of the project however.

You can see jdowning's oud from his project on my wall, as I'll consider that for my next project! But scale it up to modern oud dimensions.

The ribs came to the point nicer than I thought they would. I wonder if I should do an inlay there or not? Any advice?

SamirCanada - 12-22-2010 at 05:57 PM

very nice man.
that is an awesome feeling isn't it!

You dont have to put an inlay or to cover it if you feel the points match up well enough. That is really impressive by the way! chapeau to you. I am still unable to make that happen.

Also, using a mold is the way to go if you want to stick to your planned dimensions for sure. Although its not a terrible thing to sway from it a little bit as happened in your case. this happened to me as well on my first oud. Just make sure you use the dimensions of the finished bowl on a wood or paper outline to plan the distribution and lenght of the braces according to the actual size. I am sure you figured that much though since I am stating the obvious and your work shows that you are quite talented and meticulous.

all the best on the rest of the oud buddy.

oh and what kind of beer you got there? You americans have some of the best microbreweries.

bulerias1981 - 12-22-2010 at 11:19 PM

Thanks Samir.

There is a method I used to shape the ribs which I just realize I didn't point out.

I saw this on a lute making website. The luthier says if the lute is half round, no need to make a mould and suggested making a wedge. Heres the link.
http://www.cincinnatiearlymusic.com/medieval_lute.html

He calls it a "speed tip", but in all honesty, it takes time to make this perfectly as well. But I think its a good method. I wonder how many oud makers have tried this on here.

As you can see, I made a wedge shaped piece of wood from spruce (but you could use anything I suppose) that has the exact shape of the rib. I clamp the bent piece of wood to the wedge and just plane it until you cannot plane anymore. And that SHOULD be the shape of the rib. Which is why I was able to get the points to line up in such a way.

I ended up putting an inlay over the points afterall. A half round piece of maple with a walnut diamond inlayed into that. Its clamped and glueing now, so I'll take photos of it tomorrow. Not 100% happy with how that came out, but it was my first time doing inlay. But not bad. Didn't really need to do it either, but I figure what the hell.

I have my own method for bending ribs which I haven't seen anyone do on here. I'm willing to share that too if anyone is interested. I can bend a rib to near perfect shape in 3 minutes using an outer mold shaped to the rib's target shape. A photo of that will come soon.

The beer I was drinking was Blue Moon.. love that stuff! lol

Samir, I'm accepting advice on the next steps... because I'm trying to figure out the best way to approach making the top. Thanks!

jdowning - 12-23-2010 at 06:28 AM

This is the method that was used by luthier Philip Macleod-Coupe described in the Lute Society Booklet No. 4 "Lute Construction" published way back in 1978. Here the 'no mold' procedure was used with the bowl of the lute being semi circular in section.

In my opinion it is a method that is more trouble than it is worth as much depends upon the accuracy of the wedge pattern - otherwise, the pattern will just be a rough guide and you will end up making adjustments to the rib joints as you go along anyway.
Most if not all surviving lutes are not semicircular in section so that each rib is of different geometry and must be individually fitted (planed freehand to fit). On 'flattened' section lutes the ends of the ribs do not meet at a point but this is of no consequence as they are covered by a capping strip. And so it is with ouds - that is the reason for the semi circular inlay covering the points. With freehand fitting each rib width may vary slightly as well.

The earliest drawing of a lute (mid 15th C, Arnault de Zwolle) describes construction of a mold of the 'toast rack' or 'bulkhead' type. It would seem that the early lute and oud makers designed their instruments to strict geometrical designs and must have used a mold (solid or bulkhead types - as do many lute and oud makers today) in order to conform to the required geometry. Use of a mold does not guarantee that a bowl will be symmetrical, however, unless care is taken to ensure that every rib is bent and jointed so that it precisely fits the mold profile (without forcing and heavy clamping).

bulerias1981 - 12-23-2010 at 12:16 PM

Jdowning,

Yes, this method works well if the wedge is shaped properly which I made sure and was careful during that process. But as I said earlier, doesn't save you a lot of time really. A little if anything.

Here is a photo of the inlay I installed last night. Not the best, but its ok for my first time I suppose.

And here is the outside mould I use to bend the rib. I simply dampen the rib with a brush, then move it slowly along the iron. If I give it the right rate, I can take the rib off the form after 1 or 2 passes only and it really maintains that shape. As I said earlier, the mould is made from the template, and is from plywood.

Peyman - 12-23-2010 at 02:40 PM

I like Blue Moon too, specially with a wedge of orange! This is a nice project! I am definitely following. Do you prebend the rib and then put it in the mold?

FastForward - 12-23-2010 at 03:36 PM

Nice progress Bluerias. Keep it up, its looking very good.

Regarding the top, start by preparing the edges with a shooting board (two pieces of plywood) and my 14" Jack plane. Once no light was showing I stopped planing the edges. It took me some practice as I've never done that and my the pieces were wide enough to accommodate my practice which reduce the width by about 1/4" total (1/8" on each side).

I used two 24" aluminum clamps that I got from Harbor Freight for about $8 each to lightly apply pressure to the two pieces as I applied some hide glue to the joint. Some weights were added on top of the sound board to prevent it from buckling (see the last photo below).

Once the pieces are joined, you need to reduce the thickness close to the final thickness (I sanded it down to 2.1mm, final thickness was 1.6mm tapering on the sides to 1.3-1.4mm).

Once that is done, start by outlining the back profile on the soundboard (decide which side needs to be in and which side needs to be out first and draw the outline on the inside).

Once that is done, identify the key distances, like location of the bridge, location of the large rosette. Then you can start drawing the remaining bracing pattern.

Also, it helps if by now you have decided what kind of inlay work you want to do on the top if any.

Once your finish drawing the pattern and you are absolutely sure about it, drill 1/8" or 1/16" holes in the center of the large/small rosettes. Flip your top and start outlining your inlay work. What inlay work you want determines the next steps and I will skip this part to the braces.

Once the inlay work is done, sand down the soundboard approximately to final thickness.

Then, you can cut the rosette holes open. If you have the rosettes ready, its your choice if you want to glue the rosettes now or later, I would suggest gluing them later but its up to you.

Then, trim the soundboard around the oud profile you outlines earlier, leaving about 5mm. From the brace blocks, cut your braces and trim them to length. I didn't fit them inside the out until after they were glued to the soundboard, mainly because any misalignment in the gluing of the fitted braces will translate into poorly fitted braces and will affect the structural stability of the oud as well as the sound coming out of it.

To glue the braces, I used a home made clamping jig that looks like the photos below.

Once your braces are glued in place, you can start trimming the edges of the braces slowly to fit them into the oud bowl perfectly. The process took me about 2hours and the outcome was perfect. I used a combination of a utility nice blade, sharp chisels, and a small sanding stick. Be careful not to ruin the soundboard.

The above is how I did the top and I am no expert what so ever. That was my first oud and I would love to hear how the others do it.

Photo on 2010-08-16 at 15.07Resized.jpg - 93kB

Photo on 2010-08-16 at 15.08Resized.jpg - 84kB

Photo on 2010-08-16 at 15.09 #2Resized.jpg - 84kB

Shooting Boards

freya - 12-24-2010 at 06:56 AM

If you look around on youtube, there are plenty of videos on truing and joining tops & backs. I like the tapered jig shown here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xOJAjdGZUY&feature=related
though I don't currently have easy access a band saw and have been using the long clamps referred to above.

bulerias1981 - 12-24-2010 at 10:40 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Peyman

I like Blue Moon too, specially with a wedge of orange! This is a nice project! I am definitely following. Do you prebend the rib and then put it in the mold?

We are brothers in the oud and in bluemoon! hehe.
To answer your question, my ribs were rather thin. 1.5mm! So I didn't have to prebend them in order to fit them in the mold. If they are thicker, I would recommend to prebend them.
I use HOT water by the way. I forgot to mention that detail, but I believe that helps prevent cracking and also gives the best performence of the steaming during bending.

To join the top pieces together shouldn't be an issue for me. I'll use my long bench plane to do this. I joined many spruce and maple tops for violins and are much thicker and problematic to do this operation. I'll try to achieve a spring joint, to assure it wont seperate later.

I guess I'm debating certain details such as what inlay to do on the top. How to execute it.. (by hand or with dremel) What kind of joint to do for the neck into the neck block. I'm thinking of doing a dovetail joint, or even the kind of joint demonstrated by Dr. Oud in his book. I have yet to plane/sand the edges of the bowl flush with the blocks.

I want to start a question for everyone...
Have you seen curly maple as a fingerboard? I'm considering using that. I've seen them on baroque violins, viols. But what about ouds/lutes? Any opinions? I'm trying to keep the oud themed with walnut and maple only. No ebony or roserood. Not even for the bridge, fingerboard, inlays or pegs. Even the pegs I'm planning to make myself on my lathe from maple.

Peyman - 12-24-2010 at 12:02 PM

Wow 1.5mm. That's a lute! I've used the same method the other way, bending the ribs on a form with a hot iron. Like I am ironing. I think your method is better though.

In a Guild of American Luthier's article, maple and a bunch of other woods were tested as fingerboards and maple did better than expected and I think better than almost all the other material. But it wasn't curly maple, which I think might have a stability issue with the swirls. As long as we're not talking about striped or flamed maple. You should consider all the cons of using a light wood for a fingerboard too (wear, grime & dirt etc). You can dye the maple black too.

bulerias1981 - 12-24-2010 at 12:10 PM

I am good with wiping my fingerboard everytime I play because my hands get sweaty. But I guess the fingerboard will stain. I know there was an oil some violin makers were using.. (not linseed) So I'll have to look into that in Maestronet violin making forum.

Here is a photo of an original Amati violin in which I assume it's baroque setup has remained untouched. I'm also assuming the fingerboard and tail piece is original. There is an example of an Amati violin like this at the Metropolitan museum of art in NYC, with curly maple fingerboard and tail piece with baroque setup.

This is a modern maker of Viols (made to baroque specs)

http://www.brandtviols.com/index.html

So there are examples of curly maple fingerboards. I need more info on the conditioning. I guess there might be good practical reasons curly maple was discontinued as a preferred wood for fingerboards. Perhaps ebony became more available to European makers and/or more fashionable?

Peyman - 12-24-2010 at 12:52 PM

I don't know why ebony became so popular, but you're right maple is used for fingerboards all the time (guitars and other instruments). I think I was trying to distinguish between curly and flamed/striped maples. Curly maple has swirls that are kind of weird to deal with. The swirls can crack while working on it. This is from my own experience and I also recall having a hard time sanding out saw marks. But I think if you use striped maple (like this violin), it would look really nice and different than what we usually see on ouds. With age, it'll turn orangish which is fitting to play on while enjoying some blue moon

I have also heard of "cooked maple" which has a very nice color and is very stable.

bulerias1981 - 12-24-2010 at 01:05 PM

I guess ebony is more practical, lasts long.
Curls and strips are hard to work with as you said. I find it best to use a plane with a toothed blade. You can also use a Lie-Nielsen scraper plane which you have the option of using a toothed blade.. Then when you're close to the thickness you need, you fall back to a regular scraper and scrape out the tooth marks.

Another question:
Ever see maple for a bridge on an oud?

Peyman - 12-24-2010 at 01:59 PM

Quote: Originally posted by bulerias1981

Another question:
Ever see maple for a bridge on an oud?

I might have seen dyed maple bridges but I am not competely sure. Maybe someone esle has a better answer. I might be thinking lutes. Either way, I think it would look really nice. It's your project and you can sure make a unique oud. :xtreme:

bulerias1981 - 12-24-2010 at 03:38 PM

An interesting thing I read in "Historical Lute Contstruction" by Robert Lundberg printed by the Guild of American Luthiers...

If you have the book, you can see on page 68 where he discusses the use of ebony as a use in historical lutes. And I'll quote,
"The first thing one notices is that historical pegs are not made of ebony! It is wisely known today that ebony is a terible wood for pegs. The wood contains so much silicon that the peg holes are soon worn out and a new set of pegs must be fitted. After a couple of sets of pegs, the holes in the pegbox must be bushed. Historical makers instead chose woods like boxwood, plum, mountain ash, and other locally available hardwoods which were very stable and were known to wear well. I have had samples identified as pear, laurel and lilac."

This is very interesting and don't know why I haven't thought of it. I knew mineral deposits existed in ebony, which can eat up plane blades or other cutting tools. Didn't think about its effect on the pegbox walls. Obviously the wear takes time and a lot of tuning for it to have that effect. But if you have had an instrument with ebony pegs, with time, you do see that the begin to protrude out more and more from the end of the pegbox!!

Still doesn't answer my question about maple being good for pegs. I also searched in this book for the use of maple on fingerboards on lutes, and is not mentioned. Along with maple for the bridge.

Sazi - 12-24-2010 at 04:23 PM

Quote: Originally posted by bulerias1981

I want to start a question for everyone...
Have you seen curly maple as a fingerboard? I'm considering using that. I've seen them on baroque violins, viols. But what about ouds/lutes? Any opinions? I'm trying to keep the oud themed with walnut and maple only. No ebony or roserood. Not even for the bridge, fingerboard, inlays or pegs. Even the pegs I'm planning to make myself on my lathe from maple.

Had one oud with dyed maple bridge (that I know about).

I have had a great oud with Walnut for the fingerboard, bridge and pegs, (everything except the soundboard actually), and you can find some really lively grain patterns in walnut too, for visual interest.

jdowning - 12-24-2010 at 05:51 PM

Ebony is said not to be the best wood for pegs because it contains abrasive salts that act like sandpaper causing excessive wear. It is also not recommended for bridges (too heavy?) - although I have, in the past, successfully used ebony for both pegs and bridges (on lutes) so reckon that claims of excessive peg wear are a bit exaggerated.
Boxwood is OK but it takes forever to season to a stable state necessary for use as pegs without problem. I have lots of the stuff 30- 100 years old and have often used it for pegs.
I also have some well seasoned lilac in stock that is a hard, dense wood, pale violet in colour but have never tried it as a peg material.

Old lutes generally used pear wood for both pegs and bridges - stained black - said to be the best choice.
I have used Maple (Sycamore) for lute bridges but not for pegs (too soft). Walnut is probably also too soft for pegs.
Brazilian rosewood is good for pegs - it contains oils that make it easy to turn on a lathe and which act as a natural peg lubricant. Probably not legally available these days as it is an endangered species.

Ebony is and was used for fingerboards because it is hard and black - so wears well and doesn't show stains from finger oils as lighter coloured woods like maple or boxwood surely do.

More exotic fingerboard materials found on surviving lutes are ivory and tortoise shell. The latter, with a gold leaf underlay, makes an impressive looking fingerboard. Ivory was also used for lute pegs.

Peyman - 12-27-2010 at 11:43 AM

I have Lundberg's book too. It's an interesting book.
I remember Jameel's first project had a walnut bridge too. As for pegs, I used to have maple pegs on a saz of mine and they worked for 12 years untill they started to protrude. I guess longevity of pegs/the peghead holes is somewhat relative. I personally like rosewood. Dr. Oud has written about the choice of peg wood in this forum a few times.

vinzenz - 12-29-2010 at 10:27 AM

The best woods for pegs are in my opinion cocobolo, rosewood, plumwood, boxwood. the wood should not be too hard, rather more resilient. And when you use basswood for the inside of the pegbox with only a thin (1 - 2 mm) veneer of your decorativ wood, it works really fantastic. just a little clay or soap - thats it.
when you turn the pegs there are no squeak , no rattle etc. and the peg is not suddenly out of the hole - sorry , i hope you understand what i want to say, maybe my english is not the best for this technical terms,
and the tapering should not be too much.
For the bridge i use stained beechwood ( quartersawn ) as i found on a really old turkish oud. You can really tune your oud by changing the wood for the bridge. i think: Brazilian rosewood for the most brilliant sound , then mayby indian rosewood for a little bit less and so on- you have to get your own experience.

jdowning - 12-30-2010 at 06:39 AM

Just to add to the observations made by vinzenz.
The peg box of my old Egyptian oud is made from a beech wood/rosewood (?) laminate with pegs of an unidentified softer wood stained black. So the pegs - in this case - will wear faster than the pegbox. For hard pegs in a soft peg box, the peg box will wear faster. Either way pegs and peg box materials should be of a different hardness. Like vinzenz, I prefer hard pegs in a softer peg box for a smooth peg fit. Also pegs made from harder woods are usually easier to turn in a lathe with good detail.

When working with oily woods like Brazilian rosewood gluing can be a problem unless the surface of the wood is thoroughly de-greased prior to gluing.

Sazi - 1-3-2011 at 05:25 PM

Quote: Originally posted by vinzenz

You can really tune your oud by changing the wood for the bridge.

That's for sure! I'm glad I play floating bridge oud's, makes it nice and easy to change and compare, (well, once you've made a few bridges)... and it can make a huge difference.

Sam - 1-8-2011 at 02:09 PM

bulerias1981 ,

Maple wood for bridge ?? I don't think it's a good idea. brigde wood should be a wood that has specific properties .

1- should be very light and strong in same time.

2- should be able to transfer the sound from strings to soundboard as fast as possible.

as I've heard , Brazilian rosewood was the most pupolar bridge wood ever . due to the illegal logging , The Brazilian goverment has banned trading with Brazilian rosewood in fear BRW wood will be no more exist.

You can either use Walnut or Paduk wood for bridges .especialy Paduk , Very light and easy to work with. It makes a perfect bridge for an Oud.

Sam

bulerias1981 - 1-18-2011 at 09:02 AM

Ok. so my rib thickness is at 1.5 Which is pretty thin for an oud I believe. Any thoughts on this?

I have been busy, so I haven't posted photos. I'll post some later today. Thanks.

Jonathan - 1-18-2011 at 09:53 AM

Don't use maple. Too heavy--you want the soundboard to be able to vibrate as much as possible.
If you want the traditional dark black bridge, dyed pear wood would work nicely.
Rib thickness is 1.5 mm after you have sanded it all down? No need to worry, as long as the joints seem secure. As you know, if the thickness of the rib is 1.5mm, it tends to be much narrower at the joint, because of the sanding.
I tend to go just a bit thicker, but a lot of the masters made ouds with ribs that were about that thick. (Although I am not sure how much further shrinking of the thickness of the ribs takes place through the years).

bulerias1981 - 3-15-2011 at 04:50 PM

Ok.. I know.. Shame on me for not posting each step of the way.. But it became time consuming and I wanted to concentrate on making the oud itself without too many distractions. So here it is, finally. I started this back in November I believe, so its been a long journey and I learned a lot.
I wouldn't say it came out perfect, but I'm happy with the final results. About the sound, I'm very impressed. It has plenty of projection, with a somewhat traditional sound. I cant wait to see what happens with time as it matures.

I used a minwax laquer to finish it, and I wasn't totally happy with the results as it ended up a bit bumpy. I'll likely apply another coat or two in the near future and take down the high spots.

I decided to make the pegs myself using my lathe and a duplicator. Modeled after traditional Nahat style pegs. They came out pretty good. I went against many by using maple, however, I took time to fit each peg, and there is no problem that I can see, and they work rather fine. If theres a problem, I'll try boxwood, but its ok for now in my opinion.

I used a figured maple as the fingerboard with a light coat of refined linseed oil to protect it. (well see how that goes, though I'm generally good about wiping the fingerboard each and everytime I play.

The bridge came off after a few hours being tuned. So I used a stronger glue (Titebond III). I used hyde glue before. I'm still not sure if it was the glue consistancy or the way I clamped it which caused the fail or both. But I made a special jig that places pressure down on all surfaces of the bridge. So I believe that and the stronger glue choice, it should stay.

Sound file and/or video to come! Feel free to ask any questions or request any additional photos as there are many.

SamirCanada - 3-15-2011 at 04:56 PM

NICE! very very nice.

that feeling when you finally put the strings on the finished instrument is soo nice. Your first oud is really a beauty and you should be really proud of your work!
Mabrouk and lets hope you play it in health.

love the curly maple fingerboard. first time I see that on a oud. its a nice touch.

welcome to the crazy hobby oud maker club :P

bulerias1981 - 3-15-2011 at 06:49 PM

Thanks so much Samir. I'm new to the oud making club I guess! Thanks for the welcome!

Here are two pieces I recorded on the fly as everyone says... It could be better, it was just a quick recording!

Taqsim Bayati en La http://www.4shared.com/audio/LI69DlCV/John_Vergara_new_oud_taqsim_b...

First khana for Tutta by Farid Al Atrash
http://www.4shared.com/audio/JGSB9Nt3/John_Vergara_new_oud_Tutta.ht...

paulO - 3-16-2011 at 06:49 AM

Hi Bulerias,

What a unique look, and excellent craftsmanship -- the sound really surprised me; really sweet sounding mids/trebles with some really fine sounding bass -- congratulations; play it in good health - and thanks for sharing the project.

Cheers..Paul

Brian Prunka - 3-16-2011 at 07:53 AM

Great job, the oud sounds really good. It can only get better with age and lots of playing!

bulerias1981 - 3-19-2011 at 02:23 PM

Thank you paulO and Brian!! I am happy with this first oud, but I'm setting oud to make my second one!!

Nice work!

Yaron Naor - 3-19-2011 at 09:03 PM

Nice work! :applause:

I am interested to see a closer look on the rosette...
and what are your things that you are going to do different for the second one?
Thanks for shearing
Yaron.

bulerias1981 - 3-19-2011 at 09:51 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Yaron Naor

Nice work! :applause:

I am interested to see a closer look on the rosette...
and what are your things that you are going to do different for the second one?
Thanks for shearing
Yaron.

Thanks Yaron. I enjoy your work too. Here is a closeup of the rosettes.

Yaron Naor - 3-19-2011 at 10:19 PM

Wow, very nice work, can you show how did you make it?
Especially the big one. (is it cherry wood?)
Thanks.

bulerias1981 - 3-20-2011 at 02:18 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Yaron Naor

Wow, very nice work, can you show how did you make it?
Especially the big one. (is it cherry wood?)
Thanks.

Sure. It began with a piece of maple, with a walnut veneer glued to it. The rosette pattern based the "Brussels M.I.M. oud #0164" as posted by Jdowning in his thread "Old Oud compared to Old Lute Geometry"

Yaron Naor - 3-20-2011 at 04:04 AM

Cool! very good work
Thanks for the images. (lots of blade removing/installing)
Yaron

bulerias1981 - 10-9-2011 at 01:07 PM

Hello all.

As a follow up, just after the completion of my previous oud, my cat (while playing with a piece of paper) knocked this oud down while I had it leaning against the dressed, and the top was damaged. I could have chosen to repair it. But I decided to remove the top all together and then rebuild a new top.
The new top is different, having one soundhole. A different rosette that I cut by hand (beautiful design by Alfaraby with my name in Arabic at center), different decor around the soundhole (thicker purfling with pearl inlays), and a different bridge.
I also changed the bracing scheme, used thicker braces and placed them in slightly different places. And I'm very happy with the end result. I love the sound. Its punchy, has projection.

SamirCanada - 10-9-2011 at 02:11 PM

Nayce!!!

Love the new top. Looks sharp

Alfaraby - 10-9-2011 at 02:45 PM

Quote: Originally posted by bulerias1981

A different rosette that I cut by hand (beautiful design by Alfaraby with my name in Arabic at center

Thanks John for trusting this design .
One correction : It's not my design. It's a famous old one. I only wrote your name in the center. Here it is !

I liked you new "top"

Yours indeed
Alfaraby

hans - 7-28-2015 at 12:43 AM

This is a very old thread, but others, like me, may sometimes still look at it, and I think I may have something to add to the topic, concerning wood for the bridge. Maple seemed to be a strange option, if I understand the posts above correctly. Maybe people were exclusively talking about arabic ouds, but I understand from several sources, one having talked to faruk turunz, that maple is standard on turkish ouds. Rosewood is an option, but maple is what you get when you don't ask for something else. Maybe one of the main differences between turkish and arabic ouds?

suz_i_dil - 7-28-2015 at 08:49 AM

I can believe it and get convinced we really neglect the bridge as an essential issue in the sound production belonging to the lutherie. It's weight and wood choice more than its shape. Then another difference i think is rather more flexible soundboard in Turkish making than in Arabic classical

bulerias1981 - 8-16-2015 at 08:45 AM

Hi.. maple is the sole choice of wood for the stringed instrument families. Maple is also being used on modern flamenco guitars made by Andalusian guitars http://www.andalusianguitars.com/

I've used maple on a few ouds with good results. I'm not going to say its the best, I'm also not saying walnut, or other woods typically used for the Arabic bridge are the best.. there are many variables. I've even used spruce with good results.