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Fadel? Turunz? Nahat? Dimitris?....

Sam Dib - 10-26-2004 at 01:12 PM

Hi Mike and everyone!
I have been watching this forum for two years now, awesome information here Mike, very nice work!

I am a oud player living in Montreal, Canada. I have one of the first ouds that Yaroub Mohammad Fadel made. It's all made of maple, except the soundboard of course which is made of spruce and the sound it sounds, how can I say..

very very nice

I am currently studying with Mohammad Masmoudi which some of you might know, a piece called Revelation was on the Taksim MP3 page.

I am also very good friend with Ismail Fencioglu, did you all know that he builds awesome ouds too. He studied with master luthier Faruk Turunz http://www.oudmaster.com

I am looking to buy a new oud and wanted your opinion, I am seriously looking for a oud from one of those luthiers:
Bashir oud by Yaroub
http://www.iraqi-oud.com/index/yaroub/info.htm

or a traditionnal oud from:
Faruk Turunz
http://www.oudmaster.com

Mourice Shehata

Husain Sabsaby
http://www.oudsabsaby.com

Dimitris Rapakousios
http://www.dimitrisouds.com/

I am of course aware that all those ouds sound very different from each other, I am looking for a ver warm sounding oud, with good projection, very easy action, good bass response, a oud with a sound that has a lot of depth and soul, maybe a Nahat at 34000$

, no seriously, which one do you think guys would be the best choice?

Thanks a lot everyone, I really appreciate the help with this one!

mavrothis - 10-26-2004 at 01:21 PM

Hi,

First, I have to say it must be great to be in such great company up there. Please pass on to Mr. Fencioglu how much we enjoy his playing. He probably remembers Phaedon Sinis, my friend who plays kanun and visited him recently.

As for the oud, for $2500 US you could probably buy one from Dimitris and one from Shehata. I think Turunz and Fadel are the most expensive makers, but all these guys can make you an amazing oud, whether you want a Turkish, Trad. Arabic, or Iraqi oud. You should take your time and decide what specialty you want.

So you know I've been very happy with my Dimitris oud, which is a Nahat copy, and with most every Shehata oud I've come by. I've never played a Turunz, Sabsaby, or Fadel, but they all have great reputations. Fadel and Turunz are probably easier to get a hold of than Sabsaby, but if you speak Arabic that's probably not a problem.

Anyway, enjoy, and good luck with your new oud, wherever it comes from.

Take care,

mav

Multi Kulti - 10-27-2004 at 05:47 AM

The problem is that you have to choose from a list with ouds which all have different characteristics.So i think you must first decide what you would like most.Turkish ,arabic or Iraqi?

So about Faruk.Ive played with ouds from him and im planning to get one this summer.Faruks ouds have a classical turkish sound (that means warm sounding,speedy action , sweet glissando, warm bass sound but not as bassy as an Arabic oud) .

There is Dimitris too.He made till now all the types of ouds...and as i know makes only custom ouds.I didnt play one from him but he has a good reputation.

I dont have an idea about the other makers but as we hear here in this forum are all highly recommended.

So if you choose first what style of oud you want to buy then your decision will be easier..

Nikos

Zulkarnain - 10-27-2004 at 06:06 AM

Hi Sam

You can contact me through email for details about Mourice Shehata Oud!

Salam

zulkarnainyusof@gmail.com

Naseer Shamma in Montreal!

Sam Dib - 10-27-2004 at 09:33 AM

Thanks a lot Mavrotis for the info, I might buy one from Dimitris and one from Shehata. Althought I would prefer investing all my budget on one reference quality oud with a magical sound, very mellow with deep shallow bass. ( I really like the sound of Simon Shaheen's oud which is a Nahat and Rabih Abou Khalil)

Hi Multi Kulti:
You tempt me with the Faruk, I have explored his scientific approach to tune each brace of the soundboard which I am tryllu confident that it will be better for the sound of the oud.

The only thing that keeps me a bit away from turkish ouds is that all the music I play is more arabic, mostly Egyptian (Abed El Wahab, Oum Koulsoum, Farid...) and some mixture of jazz music, Anouar Brahem, Rabih Abou Khalil, Simon Shaheen... And I find the turkish oud a bit small, to have the shallow bass I admire so much. What kind of music do you play?

Hi Zulkarnain:
I would love to obtain more infos on the ouds of Mr. Shehata, some sound samples if available, do you have some?

I am very happy to see Naseer Shamma perform in a small acoustic theater in Montreal in a couple of days!!!!

Zulkarnain - 10-27-2004 at 05:23 PM

Hi Sam

Sure I will send you some sound sample for the Shehata Oud! Can I have your email add? You can contact me at zulkarnainyusof@gmail.com

Salam

Ronny Andersson - 11-2-2004 at 03:38 AM

You can get a Bashir from Yaroub for 1500$

Zulkarnain - 11-2-2004 at 06:31 AM

Hi Ronny

I assumed that $1500 Bashir Oud from Yaroub is not including shipping & hard case right? Additional $250 ??

Regards

Ronny Andersson - 11-2-2004 at 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Zulkarnain
Hi Ronny

I assumed that $1500 Bashir Oud from Yaroub is not including shipping & hard case right? Additional $250 ??

Regards

That's correct.

Greg - 11-2-2004 at 06:50 PM

Sam,

Sorry to confuse the issue even more, but you may wish to add Nazih Ghadban to your list of high-end oud makers.
http://www.oudnazihghadban.com.
He has many traditional designs and also makes a fine Bashir style oud.

Sam Dib - 11-3-2004 at 10:31 AM

Thanks a lot guys for all the information!

I looked at all these luthiers and I would love to own a Mourice Shehata. I really like the work he does and the sound of his ouds. Since I already have a Bashir oud and I am seeking more of a traditionnal arab sound ala Farid el Attrache, I know Shehata ouds have a sound of their own, but they definetly have that vintage tone of the old Egyptian ouds.

I have never heard a Nazih Ghabdan oud on a sample mp3, but if anyone has a sample, can you please send it to me to this address: bassamdib@hotmail.com

I will give you some feedback soon on Naseer Shamma show that I will be seeing this weekend (the 7th of october)!

Take care everyone!

Zulkarnain - 11-3-2004 at 03:23 PM

Hi Sam

Did you receive the sound file yet?

Salam

Sam Dib - 11-8-2004 at 11:00 AM

Hi everybody,

I assisted to a Naseer Shamma concert yesterday where he played alone with 3 percussionists. IT WAS AWESOME
He played a lot of andalousian music, lot of flamenco, and improvised on maquamat

Naseer masters the oud with such virtuosity, it's scary! He plays phenomenaly fast while retaining such musicality. He doesn't let virtuosity dominate over music.

And after the concert, I had the chance to meet him in person!

BTW, the sound of his Yaroub Mohammad Fadel Bashir oud is amazing. Very clear sounding, yet super musical, extremely dynamic, very precise., reminds me of my oud hehe

, which is a Bashir made by Yaroub too, but the back is maple instead of palissander

Hi Zulkarnain,
Thanks for the sound sample, I really like the sound of the Shehata oud!
But after seeing Naseer, I must admit, I have a tendency to go back to a Yaroub

walkad - 11-8-2004 at 01:46 PM

Sam, you seem to be a lucky one

You go to naseer consert, you meet naseer and you HAVE an Yaroub oud!!

Can a man ask for more?

Multi Kulti - 11-8-2004 at 02:02 PM

Yes you could have more...

for example
go to a Bacanos concert, meet Bacanos and HAVE a MANOL oud...!!

:bounce:

Nikos

Sam Dib - 11-8-2004 at 02:07 PM

Hi,

Yes I would have to agree with Multi Kulti, having a Manol would be awesome, but I must say, you could even have more

Have a Yaroub and a Manol

Then, you really can't ask for more

Naseer shamma's Oud

lui_oud - 11-9-2004 at 09:01 PM

Hey guys I as just reading the thread. Its pretty nice. I just want to comment on Naseer's Oud the one that was at the concert in montreal. I believe the oud was NOT a Yaroub oud please correct me if I am wrong. It was an older Fawzy Monshed oud. You can tell by the design of the oud. It was a great concert. I must say that I am still in shock. I dont think I even think of touching my oud for another week or so I AM NOT WORTHY hehehehe. I'm sure if Ronny saw a picture of the oud he would agree hat it is not a Yaroub Oud. After seeing that concert I do believe that Naseer is THE best oud player in the world today. I dont think anyone can top his styles music compositions playing everything. RESPECTT to him.

take care all

Lui

Zulkarnain - 11-9-2004 at 11:30 PM

Hi

Below is the image of Naseer giving an Oud playing workshop during his visit in Kuala Lumpur couple of months back using a Bashir Oud made by Yaroub!

Salam

Zulkarnain - 11-9-2004 at 11:32 PM

Hi

Below image is during one of his solo performance here in Malaysia also using the same Oud (Bashir Oud by Yaroub)

Salam

Zulkarnain - 11-9-2004 at 11:38 PM

Naseer during the press interview at one of the many Arabic restaurant in central Kuala Lumpur.

Salam

Sam Dib - 11-11-2004 at 07:29 AM

Hi everyone,

When I spoke with Naseer after the concert in Montreal, I asked him many questions about his oud, he said it was a oud made by Yaroub, so it must be true having the answer from the master himself

walkad - 11-11-2004 at 10:16 AM

Naseer started his carrier playing on Fawzys oud, he did that untill the end of the ninetees and then he changed to Yaroub.
I met Fawzy Monshed in basra a few months ago and what I understood is that the relation btw Fawzy and Shamma is in not good, and the hole thing is on a more personnal level.

Sam Dib - 11-11-2004 at 12:09 PM

Thanks Walkad for the info, interesting, I had the impression Naseer always used Yaroub ouds.

I would like to add to the list of luthiers which I am considering right now for my new oud Mr.Peter Kyvelos

Does anyone know around how much his ouds are sold?

Thanks

Ronny Andersson - 11-11-2004 at 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sam Dib
Thanks Walkad for the info, interesting, I had the impression Naseer always used Yaroub ouds.
Thanks

Shamma's last Fawzy oud used for concerts and recordings was abandon by Shamma in Tunis at the workshop of Yaroub. I had the oud at my posses and I had it restored.

Ronny Andersson - 11-11-2004 at 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Zulkarnain
Naseer during the press interview at one of the many Arabic restaurant in central Kuala Lumpur.

Salam

Zul, I'm now looking forward to see the paparazzi photos

Zulkarnain - 11-11-2004 at 03:21 PM

Peter Kyvelos

spyrosc - 11-11-2004 at 10:37 PM

Dear Sam,

About Peter Kyvelos check out this URL:

http://www.nea.gov/honors/heritage/Heritage01/Kyvelos2.html

Spyros C.

Multi Kulti - 11-12-2004 at 02:30 AM

Personally i have never seen a work from Mr.Kyvelos and i would be interested in too.

Is there anybody ,who could send fotos of his instruments or maybe a sound of it?

Nikos

Jonathan - 11-12-2004 at 07:15 AM

I, too, would love to have a Kyvelos. I will say he extensively repaired an oud of mine several years ago, and his work was absolutely amazing. It takes a whilie to have the work done (like any oud repairer, I guess), but I would trust him with any oud I have. He is passionate about his craft. In fact, I recently sent him a couple more ouds recently for some more minor repairs. If anybody has a Kyvelos, I would also love to see pictures and hear a sound sample. If you don't have a copy of the Richard Hagopian cd, here is a link--that oud is a Kyvelos:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000001DKP/qid=110027...

spyros mesogeia - 11-15-2004 at 06:34 AM

well,dear friend,if you need more details about Dimitris's instruments send me a mail,it will be my pleasure to inform you,

Regards to all

Spyros :wavey:

Jameel - 11-15-2004 at 01:17 PM

Kyvelos Oud

Jameel - 11-15-2004 at 01:18 PM

another

Multi Kulti - 11-15-2004 at 01:25 PM

not my thing..

mavrothis - 11-15-2004 at 01:49 PM

hey,

i've met with kyvelos, and believe me, lots of decoration isn't his thing either, he just does what his customers request.

i've played one of his ouds, it was very nice, though it's voice was not for me for some reason. i like mellower sounding ouds i think.

take care,

mavro

Jameel - 11-15-2004 at 01:51 PM

simpler one

Jonathan - 11-15-2004 at 01:56 PM

Jameel, those are incredible. Thanks a lot for sharing the pics. Are they all yours? Do you know when they were built?

farukturunz - 8-16-2005 at 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mavrothis
Hi,

First, I have to say it must be great to be in such great company up there. Please pass on to Mr. Fencioglu how much we enjoy his playing. He probably remembers Phaedon Sinis, my friend who plays kanun and visited him recently.

As for the oud, for $2500 US you could probably buy one from Dimitris and one from Shehata. I think Turunz and Fadel are the most expensive makers, but all these guys can make you an amazing oud, whether you want a Turkish, Trad. Arabic, or Iraqi oud. You should take your time and decide what specialty you want.

So you know I've been very happy with my Dimitris oud, which is a Nahat copy, and with most every Shehata oud I've come by. I've never played a Turunz, Sabsaby, or Fadel, but they all have great reputations. Fadel and Turunz are probably easier to get a hold of than Sabsaby, but if you speak Arabic that's probably not a problem.

Anyway, enjoy, and good luck with your new oud, wherever it comes from.

Take care,

mav

Hi mavrothis, i have recently seen your msg and felt obliged to correct something: having created an original technique i am able to design soundboards for the ouds tuned and played in different scales. My Arabic ouds have been sold in Dubai and all the customers are playing these ouds in Arabic tuning. Indeed i make these ouds for only Arabs. Please visit Kamal Musallam's official website and read his comments about my work.

http://www.kamalmusallam.net/Faruk/farukturunz.htm#a

Perhaps you will show tolerance for the prices. Having devoted one third of my life for the sake of this ellegant instrument and contributed a unique construction and design technique maybe this humble person deserves it

farukturunz - 8-16-2005 at 01:39 PM

Some pictures of me, my ouds and my workshop...

farukturunz - 8-16-2005 at 01:41 PM

continued

farukturunz - 8-16-2005 at 01:42 PM

continued

farukturunz - 8-16-2005 at 02:05 PM

continued

palestine48 - 8-16-2005 at 05:22 PM

As far as prices go, I think most of us here on the board are beginners or people who are picking up oud as a hobby rather than a profession and we generally try to help people not spend beyond of their limits. like me, ha ha. i do not think it was a statement to say you are asking too much.
I am sure you are worth every penny that you request and more.

By the way I recently made contact with one of Master Turunz apprentices, Samer Totah from Ramallah, Palestine.

Samer is a musician who learned oud making from Furuk Turunz and from what I hear, He is a good maker as well. I am planning to get an oud from samer as soon as I go back home.

The reason I bring this up is because samer sent me his CD titled ghofran and on this album he uses one of Turunz's custom arabic ouds and it sounds great. I will try posting it up on the forum. I still have to email it to mike.

Matser Turunz, I loved the pictures and your oud looks great. Is that the natural color of the wood for the face? It makes the oud look antique, it is beautiful.

I assure you, when the day comes that I can afford such a lovely oud. I will gladly buy from you. If you still make them by then.

farukturunz - 8-17-2005 at 01:59 AM

Yes you are right. People communicate on this board are some enthusiastic ones rather than professionals who share experiences and help each other to obtain a good oud without spending beyond their limits. I appreciate all comments about my work and welcome criticisms dealing with the highness of my ouds' price range. Yes they are expensive ouds. I also appreciate your desire to buy an oud from me one day.
As for the question you asked, yes it is its natural color. The face is Canadian spruce.

Wm. De Leonardis - 8-17-2005 at 04:03 AM

I absolutely love my oud by Faruk—I believe that the second picture is mine being constructed, by-the-way. It’s an incredibly beautiful instrument, in both design and sound. Faruk is a wonderful person to deal with, too. He’s very kind and helpful. He kept me up-to-date with the construction of the oud and sent me pictures of the progress along the way. I can’t recommend highly enough.

It’s good to see you on the boards, Faruk. I hope you’ve been well.

William

farukturunz - 8-18-2005 at 02:04 AM

Hi William,

You are right, that one is your oud. Nice to meet you here again. I am very well, thank you. I hope you are in good health.
Cheers

mavrothis - 8-20-2005 at 11:30 AM

Dear Mr. Turunz,

I've been away and just saw your message directed towards me. I think you misunderstood my comment as something negative, but it was not. Please look closely at the message and see I do not say anything negative about your prices or your instruments, and from your reply, you also do not deny that your intruments are relatively expensive. I agree that you deserve what you ask for (and surely more, as do all good luthiers). From my recent trip to Greece I have had the pleasure of purchasing one of your concert level ouds (used but in great shape) and I love it's sound and playability very much. I also got to see and hear first hand Yurdal Tokcan's Hadi Usta on which you replaced the soundboard, fingerboard, and perhaps more.

So please don't think I have any negative thoughts towards you, your instruments, or your prices. I was just trying to show someone a variety of choices which exist. And I have no doubt you make great ouds for Arabic tunings as well, at the time I wrote the old message I wasn't aware of this.

Take care,

mavrothis

Brian Prunka - 8-22-2005 at 01:55 PM

I recently had the opportunity to play a Faruk Turunz oud (designed for arabic tuning) and I cannot tell you how impressed I was (still am).

It was an amazing instrument. Another well-known (and often critical) oudist and luthier also played it and said it was a fabulous instrument.

however, despite being designed for arabic tuning, it didn't have a classic arabic sound (ala nahat or georges)--it sounded like a hybrid, something in between an arabic and turkish sound. Which was a beautiful sound in itself. I'm curious to know what mr. Turunz's ideas are about sound aesthetics. I respect Dincer's attitude that he makes his sound and people come for his sound or they don't; this makes sense to me. As much as Turunz has studied acoustics, I imagine he can make an oud sound any way he wants.
So what I'm wondering is, if I ordered an oud and wanted an Arabic sound (tighter, punchier, less echo) would you do that?

either way, he makes truly outstanding instruments that are worth the money.

farukturunz - 8-23-2005 at 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Brian Prunka
I recently had the opportunity to play a Faruk Turunz oud (designed for arabic tuning) and I cannot tell you how impressed I was (still am).

It was an amazing instrument. Another well-known (and often critical) oudist and luthier also played it and said it was a fabulous instrument.

however, despite being designed for arabic tuning, it didn't have a classic arabic sound (ala nahat or georges)--it sounded like a hybrid, something in between an arabic and turkish sound. Which was a beautiful sound in itself. I'm curious to know what mr. Turunz's ideas are about sound aesthetics. I respect Dincer's attitude that he makes his sound and people come for his sound or they don't; this makes sense to me. As much as Turunz has studied acoustics, I imagine he can make an oud sound any way he wants.
So what I'm wondering is, if I ordered an oud and wanted an Arabic sound (tighter, punchier, less echo) would you do that?

either way, he makes truly outstanding instruments that are worth the money.

farukturunz - 8-23-2005 at 01:53 PM

Hello Mr. Prunka and all,

I can not make any objective evaluation dealing with your comments about that oud you played, but just have had a spritual satisfaction which is more precious than any thing else.
I wish some one else could give the answer to your question dealing with my ability for making a classical Arabic oud with classical Arabic sound. Because my answer can only be an oud. I will try to give the answer of your question soon and post the photos and sound tracks to this forum. I have aimed to make ouds which have the classical Turkish sound (ala Manol and Karibian) so far, either I make them for Turkish tuning or especially Arabic. This very good question of you seems to spur me anyway. Thank you so much.