Mike's Oud Forums

When performing Live

SamirCanada - 3-13-2006 at 02:21 PM

My question is about performing live with a regular microphone.
I have done a few gigs so far where I had to use a microphone. I experianced feedback problems since I was with a band and I had to have a strong signal to the mic.
Not long ago I had the oportunity to perform on my own but using a microphone again to fill the room better. I experianced some more feedback problems again although I didnt need the mic to be verry strong the simple presence of the sound hole near a mic would give strong feedback.
Anybody has a trick to avoid or minimize this? What kind of microphone should I use?

jshead - 3-13-2006 at 03:40 PM

The trick is to have the speaker in front of you i.e. the microphone.

also, highly directional microphones helps.
of course, turning volume down can sometimes help.
or you can get a notch filter to select out the feedback frequency.

But the top item is the main thing.

billkilpatrick - 3-14-2006 at 09:27 AM

samir - is your oud missing its rose by any chance? i've heard that a rose will inhibit feedback.

jshead - do you mean place a speaker between you and the microphone?

SamirCanada - 3-14-2006 at 10:50 AM

bill- I have tried with both types ( single hole no rosette. 3 holes rosette, 3 holes no rosette) Its all the same problem.

Jshead- When you place the speakers in front of you its hard to hear yourself. So it makes it hard to concentrate on what your playing.

excentrik - 3-17-2006 at 08:02 PM

I found that using directional condensers and pointing them at the point where the neck meets the body is an ideal way to ward off feedback and achieve the ideal sound. That is also how I record Oud, Buzuk, and classical Guitar- it works out pretty well.

Tarik;)

jshead - 3-18-2006 at 12:52 AM

Quote:
jshead - do you mean place a speaker between you and the microphone?

I added a picture to show the proper setup. I did sound for a number of years and still do occasionally including last summer for Trio Joubron. This is pretty much how you have to set things up.
J.S.

jshead - 3-18-2006 at 01:13 AM

Quote:
Jshead- When you place the speakers in front of you its hard to hear yourself. So it makes it hard to concentrate on what your playing.

Professional sound people use monitors to solve this problem. We regular people have to fiddle with location, how we aim the spearker and volume. Often reflected sound will let you hear enough. There are tiny inexpensive monitors that you can buy from places like Musician's Friend if live performance is a major thing for you. Also there are small headphones you can use.
And of course, increased microphone directionality will help.
J.S.

billkilpatrick - 3-18-2006 at 01:18 AM

that makes sense - much more than what i thought you meant.

i presume samir's observation on how difficult it can be to hear what you're playing - with the speaker and microphone in this position - can be alleviated by moving close enough to the back of the speaker to hear what's coming out the front but not so close as to interfere with the microphone or create an echo in the oud's sound chamber.

i've toyed with the idea of getting a pickup fixed to some of my instruments but i've always ended up dropping the idea - especially as i sing and play. in theory - haven't bought anything yet - a good microphone, amplifier and speaker seems to be the best and simplest solution.

thanks - bill

billkilpatrick - 3-24-2006 at 01:04 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by jshead
We regular people have to fiddle with location, how we aim the spearker and volume. Often reflected sound will let you hear enough. There are tiny inexpensive monitors that you can buy from places like Musician's Friend if live performance is a major thing for you. Also there are small headphones you can use.
And of course, increased microphone directionality will help.
J.S.


had an opportunity - my first - to play with a drummer (my youngest son) and apart from microphone and speaker placement i was very conscious of holding - what is, to all intent and purpose - a large, deep, concave dish in my lap ... picking up every sound in the room and bouncing it back to be picked up the microphone. the little experience i had with feedback and electric guitars when i was younger was put down to ill-defined, dark and mysterious forces at work in the universe ...

i don't know if there's a smilie symbol to indicate "d'-oh!"... but it was nice to actually hear what i was playing. i think this new electricity stuff will catch on.

Dr. Oud - 3-24-2006 at 09:55 AM

I also have worked in sound reinforcent (PA system operation) and learned that feedback has many factors - speaker proximity and volume (output), microphone gain (input signal strength), bass attenuation and microphone types. Since the oud is a very bassy instrument, you should reduce most of the bass tone control. Gain can be reduced by increasing the number of microphones, pickups or using a combination of both. The combination of pickups with microphione works well to provide the most realistic sound of the instrument while the multiple inputs allow output volume to be achieved with less input gain. Microphone placement can be effective by aiming the microphone at an angle to the face to reduce direct soundwave feedback. I like 2 mics, one at the neck, another behind the bridge, with a miltiple transducer piezo pickup on or in the oud. (budget allowing). Microphone configuration can be a factor as well. Condensor microphones (more $) exhibit less feedback response than diaphram mics (less $). Cardiod microphone iinput patterns are better at rejecting influence of off axis sound sources. Then there's the room itself, with reflecting walls bouncing the sound back at your oud. Some times just slightly changing the angle of the oud face can help.

eliot - 3-24-2006 at 10:06 AM

FWIW, I've tried over 20 different microphones on the oud for live situations - I've found that the Beyerdynamic M88 (original, not the "TG" edition) works the best at capturing the sound of the oud while minimizing feedback. A bit hard to find, though, and not the cheapest dynamic mic option. I always carry one on me when gigging, in case the venue doesn't have a suitable mic.

Mics

wfspark - 3-25-2006 at 01:35 PM

I've found that the Electrovoice PL20 with a pop screen works as well.
William F. Sparks