Mike's Oud Forums

Ghadban oud #974 for sale

Jake - 7-31-2006 at 09:22 AM

FOR SALE : Ghadban oud #974. Purchased new from the maker and recieved on July 4th 2006. scale length: 60cm, bowl: alternate teak and beech, soundboard: best kind of cedar, pegs and fingerboard: ebony. The wood Mr. Ghadban assures me is very old and stable. The bowl was completed on the 24th of April 2003 and has been aging ever since. The rest of the oud was completed on the 20th of June 2006 and is similarly in the grips of time.

Do any other makers age their bowls?

This once in a lifetime offer includes: original soft case, a selection of rishas, paperwork, aquila nylgut strings that have been taken off and put back on and a light coloured wood nut, even smaller than the original ill fitting one, with pencil marks where the strings should go that are unevenly spaced in the style of the original nut.

You can if you wish negotiate with Mr. Ghadban to have him send you: 5 new tuning pegs, rosewood bridge blank, ebony fingerboard blank and large sized bone nut blank. It generally doesn't hurt to ask. He has appearantly prepared these items and they are ready to ship.

I cannot guarantee that Mr. Ghadban will agree to do this nor that he will be disposed to comment on how to go about re-conditioning this oud in any way.

Furthermore I cannot in good conscience claim any more or less about this oud than what I have already described in my previous posts "The horror of buying my first oud", "What is a normal amount of bulge/buckle in a soundboard" and "What if it's true, so your buying an oud?" and what is pictured in the photographs; with the addition of: the pickguard has air bubbles in it, the inside of the bowl has been painted/sprayed with a black tar like substance and exibits patches, the tuning head feels quite flimsy and there is very little movement in the neck at pitch and only a small fraction of a millimeter of relief if any.

I would also like to reiterate briefly: the bridge really is coming off, the treble sound really is weak, the construction really is asymetrical, there really are gaps and there really are scratches.

To be fair; all of these issues may be, as far as I know, I suppose, a matter of interpretation. They may or may not be detrimental to the value, appearance, playability and longevity of the instrument such as it is.

I will not include any shipping charges, taxes, service charges, phone charges, travel expenses, or damages for pain and suffering in the calculation of the asking price-..let them drift away on the wind.

So: $1650usd is the amount paid by me to Mr. Ghadban; but
to be fair: $1617usd is the amount Mr. Ghadban claims he has recieved. $250usd is the amount Mr. Ghadban has told me I have paid for shipping. $243.20cad which roughly comes to $208usd is the amount I have actually recieved towards damage and repairs. For a grand total asking price of $1159usd but let's call it $1000usd.

I will put $243.20cad towards shipping and insurance.

I cannot take responsability for any issues pertaining to the state of the oud that I have not noticed, understood or thought significant.

It is sold as is, final sale.

I feel it is only honest to relate that despite the fact that the oud was not insured when it was originally shipped; it's value was declared by Mr. Ghadban as $500usd. I assure you that shipping did not cost $1150usd so let's insure it for $1000usd.

I also feel it only honest to say that I know of no way to offer proof that; rest assured it will be shipped in the condition in which it has been described and pictured. Any prospective buyer must accept my word that I have done my best to disclose all that there is to disclose about this oud. I am not the type of person to do to anyone else that which I am so grieved to have had done to me.

So....for $1000usd you can own a piece of Ghadban history.

If that sounds like a bargain to you, please e-mail or U2U me as soon as possible.

Jake - 7-31-2006 at 12:08 PM

I did not get the chance to thank everyone for their responses in the last forum before it was shut down. I'm using the computers at my local library and it's closed on Sunday. So thank you. I also have a few things to say. It would surprise me if anyone was surprised by this. I have tended to be a bit wordy. But we all have the option of not reading things.

I am willing to accept any opinions or explanations offered in the spirit of help. I must wonder however why Mr. Ghadban has chosen not to address any of these issues, except to say that they do not exist.

I am not willing to accept slanderous remarks or inaccuracies offered by third parties who may or may not speak for Mr. Ghadban.

To clear up once again an issue that appears to be of some importance. I did originally accept one of Mr. Ghadbans final offers of a partial refund and some parts. I must confess that I did not think it likely that this was a genuine offer nor did I think it likely that I would ever see a refund if I sent the oud back. This attitude was based on my impressions of the circumstances of the sale of the oud which were very suspicious. This did not stop me from ruling out a more innocent explanation. I still have not ruled this out; but, I have not recieved the full amount of the refund or the parts. I understand that Mr. Ghadban may be unable to send them and that is fine with me.

I would like to say that I have deep sympathy for the events in Lebanon as I do for any suffering. I have expressed my best wishes to Mr. Ghadban.

The original option has become impossible for me to follow through on because I will shortly be living out of a backpack for some time. Furthermore, I have since come to the conclusion that I would be better off accepting his other offer of a refund minus shipping charges. I was hesitant to accept this originally because it would leave me with no oud and some heavy losses of money. But I do not like this oud and I do not want this oud. Even as a beginner oud it makes me sad. I did not think I was buying a beginner oud.

I communicated this to Mr.Ghadban but he has chosen to refrain from answering; even to say "no".

I consulted these forums to gain some perspective, get some advice and perhaps draw Mr. Ghadban out to say more than he has. Though I would like to make it clear that I was not the one to drop his name. I do not want to add to his troubles. I agree that he should have the opportunity to add to any debate that is about himself. I also think that the issue of quality/cost is important. Buyers should be allowed to know what they are paying for.

I must say, I have found the oud difficult to photograph. It is different in person. The photos are at least an indication.

It is essential to this whole issue, that If I had had these photographs to look at I would not have bought this oud. If I had had the oud to look at I might not have bought any oud at all.

I did question Mr. Ghadban about some of these issues before I gave my confirmation. His answers were contrary to what is appearant on the oud itself. He did assure me that there were no gaps or scratches and that it was a nice oud. I have proof of this in his e-mails which I kept.

I would be the first to admit that I have made some mistakes and bad decisions throughout this process, despite my best efforts in research and preparation. However I will not appologize for: (among other things)not being unable to forsee things I have never experienced, basing my opinions on my own observations, trusting in the basic good nature of most people and simply telling the truth. I am more than willing to accept some version of the truth so long as it applies to us all.

So the oud is for sale but I would like to appeal to as many viewpoints as possible by adding: or best offer.

Jason - 7-31-2006 at 01:37 PM

Good luck with the oud Jake I don't think you'll have much trouble selling it. I wish I had enough saved up to give you an offer. I hope you don't give up on the oud altogether.

mjamed - 7-31-2006 at 08:16 PM

any pics, sound file for the oud?

syrianoud - 7-31-2006 at 09:16 PM

GREG I THINK THAT YOU SHOULD STOP ALL THIS NON SENCE......THANK YOU SAMIR,CALIFORNIA.

Jake - 8-1-2006 at 08:27 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by mjamed
any pics, sound file for the oud?


There are pictures in the forum mentioned above.

I am afraid I do not have the capability to post a sound sample.

David Parfitt - 8-2-2006 at 04:25 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by syrianoud
GREG I THINK THAT YOU SHOULD STOP ALL THIS NON SENCE......THANK YOU SAMIR,CALIFORNIA.


Samir, I'm quite surprised that you are not being more supportive of Jake in this matter. After all, it's not that long ago that you yourself were raging against Mr Ghadban on this forum after finding a dead bee in one of his ouds.

DJdog - 8-2-2006 at 07:17 AM

Goodbye, everyone. I'm leaving the forum for good. I've been getting obscene, violent, threatening, anti-Jewish U2U messages from Syrianoud that have frightened me, my wife, and my children. I'm in my 60's and I don't need this kind of fear. It seems the moderators, to whom I've reported this, have done nothing. So...I will not be accessing this site ever again. I'm too old and tired to fight this.

David Parfitt - 8-2-2006 at 07:35 AM

DJdog,

I received the same death threats and racist, homophobic, anti-Semitic abuse a while ago when I crossed swords with this lunatic (expecting a new batch pretty soon in fact :rolleyes: ). I'm pretty sure he has already been banned from the forums at least once for this kind of behaviour, and it is only a matter of time before he is sent packing once more. This board really is a fantastic community and a great source of information and advice, so please don't let one idiot spoil it for you.

Best wishes

David

Jake - 8-2-2006 at 12:00 PM

Farewell from me as well. I want nothing more to do with this. I will not re-ignite this issue by responding to taunts, inaccuracies or even lies. I will just walk away.

I have nothing to gain from remaining. The oud is not likely to sell so it is no longer for sale.

Mr. Ghadban has obviously washed his hands of me. If he does not already know, I would like him to know that I do not want the parts. If they arrive I will not accept them.

I draw the line at filthy remarks and most certainly threats.

This has been really bizarre. Truly weird.

What is goin' on?

Mike - 8-2-2006 at 04:08 PM

It's interesting, but it seems like some sort of drama like this has to happen every 4 or 5 months or so on these forums. The old cliche is true, history DOES tend to repeat itself. Usually, these things die down and cooler heads have always prevailed.

If anybody truly thinks syrianoud is a threat to their lives and physical well being, then they are mistaken. This is a man who has serious health issues, and who weighs probably 150 pounds. Unfortunately, this is not the first time I have been made aware of his disgusting threats and messages sent via U2U and email. I myself - many moons ago - was subjected to them. Despite that, and all things being considered, his actions are not condoned by myself or any of the moderators of these forums.

For those of you who think that nothing is being done to resolve this, you are mistaken. Both Greg and Victor have brought to my attention the messages that are being sent to certain members via email and U2U. I have sent apology emails to both people that I was made aware were receiving them. Only one has chosen to acknowledge me, and I am still in the process of doing whatever I can do to cool things down.

That being said, whoever chooses to visit or not visit these forums and this website is entirely free to do so. It does upset me that somebody would stop visiting because of the actions of another person. In this case, the actions of a SINGLE person. But I can understand their frustrations. For the most part, almost everybody who takes the time to post here is decent and well mannered.

What is the resolution? Do I ban syrianoud from the forums? It wouldn't be the first time, as David Parfitt has pointed out. When it was done in the past, he just re-registered with a new screen name, and it didn't take long to figure out who he was. I have tried to phone him for the passed two days with no success. I will still try to talk to him about this, and I hope he will listen to me. I hope to convince him that sending people messages full of vile insults and racist threats does not improve an already bad situation. It will only make him look bad, as well as Mr. Nazih Ghadban and myslef. Hopefully, he will get this message, and the threats and insults will stop. If they do not, then syrianoud will be put on notice that he will be banned again. I really hope it doesn't get to that though.

Finally, I want to convey to Jake that you have made your point. It is extremely unfortunate that you have had a bad experience with your first oud purchase. I would appreciate it though if you do not continue to open new threads that basically retell your experiences with different thread headings. Thank you.

Mike

syrianoud - 8-2-2006 at 09:02 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by David Parfitt
Quote:
Originally posted by syrianoud
GREG I THINK THAT YOU SHOULD STOP ALL THIS NON SENCE......THANK YOU SAMIR,CALIFORNIA.


Samir, I'm quite surprised that you are not being more supportive of Jake in this matter. After all, it's not that long ago that you yourself were raging against Mr Ghadban on this forum after finding a dead bee in one of his ouds.


Message Edited by Webmaster

I WILL NEVER LOG IN TO THIS STUPID SITE SO I WONT HAVE TO READ ANY STUPID ENGLISH COMENTS. BYE BYE EDIOTS:):):):)

Greg - 8-2-2006 at 10:07 PM

This thread is now locked, pending Mike's further action.

Greg

Mike - 8-2-2006 at 10:15 PM

No problem Greg. I guess I won't have to ban anybody since nobody is logging on to the site anymore. Problem solved.