Mike's Oud Forums

Rythem Box or Device

dubai244 - 12-10-2008 at 07:57 AM

Hi Guys,

I am planning to buy Rythem Box or device. I have seen " Roland'' rythem box and they are so many kinds of them and i dont which one to choose.

What i am looking for is a rythem box which i can Inport '' LOOP" files to it and play it on the rythem box.

Please advise if some body has used one before?

Thanks

shareen - 12-11-2008 at 09:37 PM

Do mean to say that you want to send a sampled loop into the drum box or do you want to create a pattern on the machine itself? Take a look at the Roland Handsonic...the 15 model. It has touch sensitive drum pads and has about 300 internal drum sounds from all over the world...darbuka, tabla, conga, djembe, etc. You can't send samples it, but it has a full sequencer in it. If you want to send sampled loops to a drum box then you have to have a sampling device and trigger the samples with a midi drum machine or pad. Computer and trigger-able drum pads will work too.

Was that helpful??

Greg - 12-11-2008 at 10:05 PM

Hey Dubai244,

I use a Digitech Jamman looping pedal.
http://www.digitech.com/products/Pedals/JamMan.php

I prepare the loops using Wizoo Darbuka (no longer available) and then export them from my PC to the Jamman.

With a 2 GB FlashCard, you can store up 6 hours of loops in 99 storage positions. Because of the amount of storage, I tend to make my loops around a minute long and that provides for some variation, rather than using the same pattern over and over. With an external foot pedal, you can change loops on the fly. This can be very useful when going from 10/8 to 6/8 etc.

I hope this information is helpful.

Regards,

Greg

dubai244 - 12-12-2008 at 10:28 AM

Hi guys,

Shareen, i see what do you mean but i prefer to inport files because with handsonic, you have to create the rythem first .while recording the files is much easier because the rythem is ready, you just need to inport it to rtyhem machine.

Greg, this exactly what i am looking for but what available in our market is Roland or Korg. I prefer these two brand for the warranty plus they are consider the best in the market.

David, Work station is too much for me, because i just need it to pratice the rythem plus i have space issue in my room. Beside my bed, i have got 7 ouds, 3 comupters and wires every where, so i need some thing in small size.

Roland has following devices:
http://www.rolandus.com/products/productlist.aspx?ParentId=69

But it doesn't said that you can inport files to these devices. all what you can do to create it on the device itself because the patterns and drums are available in device itself but it is western rythem and what i need is arabic rythems.

Digital recorders:
http://www.rolandus.com/products/productlist.aspx?ParentId=110

Which has build in rythem device and you can record high quality recording.

I dont know which one to choose, and at same time i dont want to buy some thing too complicated and expensive which i dont really need ?!

Thanks

Greg - 12-13-2008 at 05:32 AM

Dubai244,

There seems to be some confusion over what you are looking for. Do you want a device to create drum sounds or do you want a device that will play back drum loops that you have already created? If it is the first of these, then drum machines designed for western music will not be of much use to you. You will need to look for a drum machine with oriental drum sounds and patterns.

If you already have the ability to record or create the loops, then you need a looping pedal (looper).
As far as I know, Korg does not make a looper. Roland make three models, but they are designed more for the live looping musician.

If you already have your loops on your computer (or can create them), I think you will find the Digitech Jamman to be the most suitable device for your purposes. I did a lot of research before purchasing mine and none of the other available looping pedals has the features that make the Jamman so suitable for our requirements.

If you are using this only for practice and in your home, why not just play the loops back on your computer?

Regards,

Greg

dubai244 - 12-13-2008 at 08:30 AM

Hi Greg,

Sorry about the confusion. I already had loop files that i already created and record it from some song and music. I did it that through ''wave editors'' software. I am using ''soundforge'' software, made by sony.

Mainly, i am looking for a looper. But it seem to me that they are devices ''ALL in one", looper + digital Recorder + drum device. So i can loop, record and import files at same time. This will save time and i will have the all required devices in one unit. Jamman is sounds perfect to me. But it is just looper

The reason why i dont like to use it in the computer because, beside the software, you need other devices for mics input and you need wires and connections to get same result. While one device can do same thing with minimum wires and connections. Plus with the device you can play the rythem and record the oud playing in the other TRACKs by pressing one button, and even some of them have CD burner, so simply you have the hole packege.

Basiclly, i am little bit lazy to start to computer and start the software and looks though the files and play loops and record my playing with the rythem!!. I guess and from my reasearch, i think Digital recorder which made by Roland meet the requirements which i am looking for. Plus you can get Studio record quality from a such device.
But the problem is which one to choose?

Thanks

Tom Moran - 12-13-2008 at 09:04 AM

The Boss Loop Station might fit your needs. It has an input where you can load it from any outside sound source and store it. I have one and it suits my needs. Fairly simple and intuitive.

http://www.bossus.com/gear/productdetails.php?ProductId=165

Tom

dubai244 - 12-16-2008 at 09:56 AM

Hi Greg,

Thank you very much for your advise. After long reasearch last two days, Your recommandation is absoutly the right choice. Compare to the other Brand, JamMan has more momery option up to 6.5 hours, which is much more than i need plus it is easy to use as i saw in the youtube video demonestration.

And Gues what?! i already bought JamMan but i didnt play with yet !! so excited. I was so lucky because it was last piece in the muic shop and no other shop selling same brand.

I do have some question for you:
1. Compact Flash, is it specially made for JamMan or is it normal Compact flash which is used by digital camera's?
2. Which software do you use to get WAV files and inport it to JamMan?

Tom, Thanks for the advise, JamMan is exactly same as Boss loop station. But you gave great idea about buying the looper instead of buying other staff that no sure the result will be. You recommandation is highly appreciated.

David, thanks. But i got exatly i want although, keyboard sounds nice.

Guys, Soon you will hear the new generation of tagsim from my oud and my JamMan .....;)

Thanks

Greg - 12-16-2008 at 10:24 PM

Hi Dubai244, You have made a wise choice and you will not regret it.
I purchased a standard 2.GB CompactFlash made by SanDisk. (very cheap on eBay).
The wav files need to be 16 bit pcm mono 44 kHz. I use a data rate of 705 kbps.
If you take a look at the demo files on the CompactFlash, you will see that each loop has its own folder and in each folder there is an xml file, that looks like this:

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8" ?>
- <JamManLoopSetup>
<LoopMode>Loop</LoopMode>
<Tempo>27558</Tempo>
<TimeSignature>2</TimeSignature>
<RhythmType>1</RhythmType>
<StopMode>Stop</StopMode>
</JamManLoopSetup>

I have attached a zip file with four files that will help you understand the purpose of the xml files and also a couple of files that will help you make a footswitch (if you don't already have one)

The loops will work without the xml file, but it is worth the effort to make up the xml files so that your metronome lights will work properly - red flash for first beat of the bar and green flash for all other beats. You can also vary the tempo of any loop by punching in a new tempo.
I just make up the loop in my computer, edit an xml file to go with it and put both in a folder i.e. "LOOP14". Then when I have all my folders done, I upload the lot to the Jamman. Easy as ....

I use Sony Vegas Video for most audio work, but you could use any one of many available audio software packages. You need to be able to trim the loops precisely to ensure they loop properly. I think the freeware "Audacity" would do the job. http://audacity.sourceforge.net/

Enjoy,

Greg

dubai244 - 12-17-2008 at 12:04 PM

Hi Greg,
Thanks for the infomations. I managed to upload file as Test to my JamMan in very simple way without needs even creating XML files. Simply, I connect the device to the laptop and starting recording via AUX input and store it in the device and then Using ''Wave editor" software. So XML file will be created by the device itself. re-arrange the file and get the required rythem and then Re-save on the device momery. Then you will get perfect loop file without needs actually to create XML file. and it works perfectly.
Soon i will get mic for my oud and the fun will start ..........;)

Thanks

nasir - 12-17-2008 at 02:25 PM

wow that looks really a lot of fun, but it looks hard to me to deal with all those machines and files especially that I didn't use those electronics with the oud, never to late to try lol.
I looked on youtube to see if someone using a sampler with oud, but didn't find any, maybe if I see it on a video clip, I will catch on the idea more.
Is there some easier way to get some arabic samples online and use them as a background when playing oud?

Tom Moran - 12-17-2008 at 04:37 PM

I've been searching Garageband for useful arabic loops to practice to, but they're not very good. I'd be interested in other sources as well.

Don't get lost in the loop machine! It can get fairly psychedelic.

Tom

dubai244 - 12-17-2008 at 09:32 PM

Hi Guys,

Nasir, This device is really simple and any one can use it. Personally, i dont have experience with machines, but within an hour, i was able to use it. All what you need is: The device, 3 wires coonection (USB, MIC, Headset) and "wave Editor" software.
These "LOOPS" files, i recorded them from songs and musics. And you can ask some body who is working in Recording Studio or Player in Music band or DJ. These people have these kind of stuff.

Tom, I have some files, but they are not ready yet, i have to work on them, once i finish, i will upload them to the forum, so every body can have them.

Greg, what is the advantege of having "FOOTswitch" and what it's function?

Thanks

Greg - 12-17-2008 at 10:38 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by dubai244
Greg, what is the advantage of having "FOOTswitch" and what it's function?
Thanks


I made a footswitch with two buttons, up and down. So, at the end of playing a piece, I press the Jamman stop pedal and then I can use the footswitch to scroll up or down to the next desired loop (for the next tune).
Your looping pedal is on the floor and you do not want to be reaching down and twiddling the dial every time you want to change to a new loop.

If you wish to change to a new loop in the middle of a piece, you press the up or down switch to get to the new loop and, at the end of the current loop, it changes to the new loop and continues to play. So if your loops are (say) a four-bar sequence you can punch in the new loop at any time during those four bars and know it will change to the new loop at the end of the four-bar sequence. I have used this in live performance and it worked well.

Greg

dubai244 - 12-20-2008 at 12:02 AM

Hi Greg,

Thanks for the info. I dont think i need footswitch for now. I am still recording arabic rythem, so far i recorded, 14 rythems. Almost every morning i pratice my oud with my great JamMan device. Thanks to you. Soon i will send the files so you can have them as present to thank you for your great advise.

Anyway, My next step will be recording my oud with rythem. Is there a way, i can use the JamMan to do this? OverDub function is only for background and the software i am using is only playing one track at the time Plus the input to laptop is only one mic ?!

Thanks

Greg - 12-20-2008 at 08:15 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by dubai244
Anyway, My next step will be recording my oud with rythem. Is there a way, i can use the JamMan to do this? OverDub function is only for background and the software i am using is only playing one track at the time Plus the input to laptop is only one mic ?!
Thanks


If you make one single loop the same duration as the piece you wish to record, you can then use the Jamman to record the oud part as an overdub.
Alternately, you could use a small mic/line mixer for combining the output of your Jamman and your oud microphone and then take the output of the mixer to your computer's line input.
There are also several USB or firewire devices that will allow multiple audio inputs into your computer, where they can be mixed.
Take a look at http://www.silentway.com/tips/equip/io.php

I use an Edirol FA-101 (10 channel), but your immediate need is for only two channels and an appropriate software package for mixing and sweetening.

Regards,

Greg

dubai244 - 10-13-2009 at 04:09 AM

hi,

very nice and very easy to use. good luck

Aymara - 10-16-2009 at 05:48 AM

Hi everybody,

I'm currently trying out REAPER on my old notebook and I'm fascinated.

I think this is a very good and cheap alternative to a standard rhythm box. There are many free virtual instruments (VSTi) available for download (for example HERE) all over the WWW, which you can import in Reaper ... or just use a mikrophone to record your own playing. Currently I'm experimenting with virtual tablas ;) Some of this VSTIs have a really good and natural sound quality.

I think, this might be apowerful alternative for many oud players, be it at home or on stage ... even the band DuOud from Paris uses a notebook on stage as a rhythm source, but I think with a DAW software from Apple.

I hope you'll find this info as useful, like I did.