From there you can download the semai. I also have another question which I think has more possibilities to be answered here, on the Advice, Tips,
& Questions section. Here it is:
What really puzzled me is the tonic of "F" on which they play the semai. The first time I listened to that recording I tried to play it on my ud and I
got stucked. It is rather impossible to play it on an ud from F (lack of open strings).
I am using an "arabic" tuning, meaning a low, all fourths tuning : (from high pitch to low) CGDAEB. I often tune my ud up to a whole tone, DAEBF#C#.
These tunings cant get that job done. As I posted before, the piece is being played at the tonic of Fa Ussak. Sounds wierd. I had a thought to tune my
oud such a way that the F# comes to F and to retain the 4ths relation of the strings. But doing that, it is a tuning that offers you nothing. If you
want to play pieces from some more standard tonics...thats almost impossible. Except that, playing from F using the last tuning with the F string
being the fifth open string, it would sound as a way-too-low pitched Ussak saz semai... Awfull! The lavta plays it an octave higher than that.
What I want to say is that playing that semai from that tonic, with a reasonable finger position, leads to a MUCH higher tuning, stretching the 3rd
string from D->F( and so on the rest of the strings!). I am afraid it is a dangerous tuning for an oud (and quite useless also).
Does this make sence to you?
To sum it up, what I cant figure out is the tuning system that fits the occasion. Certainly, F ussak isnt a Bolahenk tuning neither Supurde. (What is
going on?)
So what is the reason of playing Ussak from F?
Any ideas?
George.Reda Aouad - 4-11-2009 at 06:15 AM
If that is the case it is really puzzling. I am not an expert in Turkish music but I will try my best.
First, I don't have my oud right now so I cant try the fingering. But Ussak on F should be F, G-1/4, Ab, Bb, C, Db, Eb, F, which I imagine should be
playable just by stretching your pinky finger to get to the G-1/4 in your Arabic tuning, of course harder than a usual maqam. You may also try
different finger positions, like half second position on the D string (index finger on F) and half first position on the other strings. I dont know..
Ill try it tonight and maybe tell you how playable I could find it.
As for the tuning, i think it is Davud, where ussak is played on Jiharka (Cargah). I just read it in the PhD thesis of Ozan Yarman published in June
2008. As for why, I have no clue. Maybe the Turkish tuning (EABead) is suitable.
Again, Im not an expert at all. I may be totally wrong. Just giving out some thoughts.teslim - 4-11-2009 at 07:56 AM
this is from an old recording of Ross Daly..I believe the violin sound you hear is actually a lyra...you could email Ross for the details of who is
playing what...adamgood - 4-11-2009 at 12:38 PM
The recording you posted came from an LP, maybe the source turntable was playing the recording out of tune by 1 semi-tone? Which would mean they are
playing from Bolahenk.
Just an idea
adamcharlie oud - 4-11-2009 at 12:42 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by adamgood
The recording you posted came from an LP, maybe the source turntable was playing the recording out of tune by 1 semi-tone?
Way to go Ad, CrazyAstrophysicist - 4-12-2009 at 06:29 AM
Thank you guys for your quick responce.
Reda, thank you on letting me know about the Davud tuning, I just found where you traced it at Ozan Yarman's phd. It seems to me quite impossible to
play on a turkish tuned ud from that pitch.. certainly a master could do that with ease but it is an awkward tuning, anyhow.
I find Adam's explanation convincing. Indeed, if someone does a quick search on youtube, it would easily be seen that all ud players play that semai
from Bolahenk. What puzzled me is the wierd timbre of the plucked instrument, clearly not an ud but I thought of it as a lavta. Knowing that a
standard lavta tuning is ADAD confused me even more. What the heck is going on again? Is it a tanbur (it has some sympathetics) or something else more
'exotic'?
What comes next I think is to find the cd version-free of hiss, pitch uncertainty, clicks and pops-of that piece (if there is such).
Hey, Telsim, do you know the exact name of the album featuring that track? I should be sure about it before I send an e-mail to Ross..
Please tell us more,
George.Astrophysicist - 4-20-2009 at 07:12 PM
Since I couldn't find any information about the name of the album and consequently a cd version of that piece, I wondered, in the past, if the total
awkwardness (pitch issue, wierd instumental timbres) of that recording is due to a physical repitch process (adams turntable speculation). That kind
of process must have an impact -apart from an impact on the pitch- on the tempo of the recording. I wasn't sure about the extent of the deviation of
the pitch, but it should be around one tone, maximum, since some instruments are recognisable and the recording has a reasonable length- and tempo of
course. A one tone deviation is a limit of the pitch which causes timbres to begin sounding unnatural because of the one to one shift of the physical
harmonics of the sound. That doesn't happens in real world when playing the instrument, because it is a complex physical system and a slight change in
frequency activates different parts and resonances of the instrument in a transitional manner. That means the sound of the instrument changes with
frequency-i.e. the length of the string-uniformly and pleasantly. Thats why digital samplers cannot replicate fully any instrument and, in case you
want the best possible result, you have to sample every note (every semitone) in order to eliminate the awkwardness of pitch changing. You cannot, for
instance, replicate digitally a piano using only a sample of one note of it.
I tried to repitch the recording down to one semitone and hear the difference. That led to a length of 5m14sec instead of 4m56sec - not much
difference. Anyway, listening to it, I observed that there is a more than noticeable tempo retardation and I find it rather unlikely to be the
original tempo, despite the fact that other renditions are usually in such a slow tempo. Dealing with Analog systems (a turntable) it is impossible to
have a pitch change without an influence on tempo. I conclude therefore that it must have been originally played from F.
That is only my estimation of course. I think we need some other opinions on the subject. Since we can't figure out what is the identity of the
plucked instrument playing along with the violin, is there any violin player to enlighten us about the possibility of playing Ussak from F - (taking
all the ornamentation and overall style into account)? That way, I think we would unravel the situation...
Way to go Ad, Crazy