Mike's Oud Forums

Maqam to taqassim

Al Yahudi - 10-1-2009 at 05:02 PM

Guys this might be a basic question but I couldnt find it in the archives here.

I cannot identify maqams in taqassims that I listen to. I understand that there is a development of the maqam into the piece but I cant hear it at all!

Can anyone explain how this works or refer to a resourceful place to read ?

Thanks

fernandraynaud - 10-2-2009 at 04:42 AM

I don't know if everybody can easily spell out the whole "chart", many of the Taqasim that people learn (by heart) are well-documented, so they come with a "roadmap", when in fact a Taqsim is supposed to be original and improvised. There are analyses here and there of famous Taqasim, there was one here last week.

But there are modulations on the same tonic, and modulations away from the tonic, usually using the dominant. You can pick out modulations on the same tonic by the shift in critical intervals of the low Jins, and you can follow the dominant-pivot modulations pretty easily when they change the tonic.

I'm just learning too, and the key thing to my ears is the changes in the intervals of the 2nd and third note of the Jins. There are only something like 8 basic ways to allocate the intervals, and everything is elaborated from that. As you play the basic Ajnas, you get familiar with the "sound" of each as they range from something like a Rast or Ajam with tame intervals all the way to Hijaz, where the 3 semitone stretch is obvious and emotionally charged.

I would love to know of a document on decoding the maqam flow! Maybe someone will help us!

This little youtube clip is helpful, the cantor is singing "I am in maqam saba, now I am going to ajam", and so on:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDZx22gPRyU

David.B - 10-3-2009 at 12:36 AM

I'm happy someone rises the point to the fore !

This is my purpose, I working on Shadd `Araban and I made this analysis :

http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=9746#pid647...

When you get the "chart" you can hear the modulation, you can read Marcus Scott Lloyd thesis to understand the way modulation works :

http://rapidshare.com/files/258837087/Arab_Music_Theory_in_the_Mode...

To me the big deal is not about modulation, but accidentals, it's easy to hear them (but you should learn the taksim on your instrument first), but it's hard to identify...

It seems my analysis makes no emulation, I wonder if I'm completely out of the subject or if George Abyad is not appreciate ?
So, it would be interesting to know what musicians and what pieces of music you work ? We could make a great job if we analyze together !

PS
Try this for maqam Bayati from "Taqaseem Oud" by Riad Al Sunbati :

http://www.maqamworld.com/modulation.html

Reda Aouad - 10-3-2009 at 12:55 AM

This may help a little bit to understand the ajnas and maqams..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPHJN607oZo

For those who don't understand Arabic, the maqamat in order are:
Rast - Ajam - Sigah - Saba - Nahawand - Kurd - Hijaz - Bayati

Al Yahudi - 10-3-2009 at 10:34 AM

Quote: Originally posted by David.B  
I'm happy someone rises the point to the fore !

This is my purpose, I working on Shadd `Araban and I made this analysis :

http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=9746#pid647...

When you get the "chart" you can hear the modulation, you can read Marcus Scott Lloyd thesis to understand the way modulation works :

http://rapidshare.com/files/258837087/Arab_Music_Theory_in_the_Mode...

To me the big deal is not about modulation, but accidentals, it's easy to hear them (but you should learn the taksim on your instrument first), but it's hard to identify...

It seems my analysis makes no emulation, I wonder if I'm completely out of the subject or if George Abyad is not appreciate ?
So, it would be interesting to know what musicians and what pieces of music you work ? We could make a great job if we analyze together !

PS
Try this for maqam Bayati from "Taqaseem Oud" by Riad Al Sunbati :

[url]http://www.maqamworld.com/modulation.html
[/url]

Ya salam David, nice interpretation. It really made me understand better what was going on there.

David.B - 10-4-2009 at 09:37 PM

It cooked in my mind during the night and I found a way to express how to hear a modulation (when the maqam changes) with a few words...

1- The tonic changes. You can hear this because of the drone (Qarar) or the rest for example. Next the new maqam shares the same notes and just the tonic has changed (Sultani Yakah / Nakriz for ex.), or a few notes changes.

2- One or two notes changes. You wait for the tonic and you determinate the new maqam with the tonic and the new "scale".

3- One note changes and you cannot make it correspond to a new maqam, it means this is not a modulation but an accidental !

For further explanations read Marcus' thesis, the "Modulation" and "Accidentals" chapters give you all the keys :)

Al Yahudi - 10-5-2009 at 12:31 PM

Thanks. Your description is simple and makes sense.On another note.. I started reading the dissertation which was so interesting I forgot why I opened it in the first place but overall I now feel like I have the right approach towards understanding what was going on there, so with I time I am sure it will fall into place.

Thanks a lot.

fernandraynaud - 10-5-2009 at 07:52 PM

I started reading Al Farabi's original 9th century Arabic treatise in the 1st Tome of D'Erlanger's, and got TOTALLY sucked in. There are specific discussions of the oud, tuned in 5 courses ascending as (pg 46)

G, C, F, B flat, e flat

Which vindicates my personal tuning of the 5 main courses all in 4ths, And there are hints that harmony may not have been as neglected as it became later.