Nahat in Brazil

What a beautiful looking oud, love the pea thingy

Quote: Originally posted by Ronny Andersson

Richard, is that dude holding a Nahat?

Quote: Originally posted by Luttgutt

...If it is any help, I have 5 Nahat ouds 1885, 1887, 1919, 1920, 1945. To Abdo, to Hanna , and the 1945 one of the sons (can't remember who. ..

Sorry! Too big. Don't know how to resize

Hi,

for those interested in Nahat's history I found this article about Romeu Féres, an oud player who what Elias Abdo's student in Brazil. Have you heard about him?

It is also written in the paper that Elias was George Abdo's brother - so both sons of Abdo George. I guess that they both worked in their father's shop (Abdo G. Nahat & Fils) until his death (mid thirties?) and then they emmigrated to Brazil in 1935 ?

Quote: Originally posted by Danielo

Hi, for those interested in history I found this article about Romeu Féres, an oud player who was Elias student in Brazil.

Quote: Originally posted by alfaraby

...As much as I can recall from looking at rosettes, there were two Abdo Nahats : Abdo George & Sons + Abdo & his son Elias. so Abdo George has never left Damascus, while Abdo & Elias immigrated to Brazil . This may explain why there are no - or rarely found - ouds of Abdo & son Elias compared to Abdo George's big collection....Does this make any sense ?...Alfaraby

Quote: Originally posted by DaveH

The brother of Elias Abdo Nahat, George ... emigrated to Brazil , is also considered one of the greatest luthiers of all time and his instruments are especially prized among collectors.

Quote: Originally posted by Dr. Oud

I don't have a definite answer ... if there were actually two Abdo Nahats (which I doubt).

I am confused, I say we all just book a trip to Syria and figure this out

I am confused, I say we all just book a trip to Syria and figure this out

I would love to book a trip to Damascus to figure it out but they won't let me in with and Israeli stamp on my passport . Musicians should have full diplomatic immunity I think! We are more diplomats that the "real" ones.

Quote: Originally posted by Danielo

... Are there btw many ouds with "Abdo G. Nahat & Fils" label after 1935 ? ( ask because I never saw any). ..

I have only one picture of an oud attributed to Abdo George in 1959 (pictured), but I have not seen the label. Also I misstated, it was George Hana who remained in Damascus, not George Abdo (who went to Brazil according to his descendants). It is confusing because this is all based on label information and heresay outside the family. Even the family members that I have asked are not certain about the details. It's been 2 generations since the emigration, after all.

Hi. I’m the author of the cited article about Romeu Feres. My name is Livia Jacob, I´m brazilian, my grandpa was lebanese. First of all, congratulations, Mike. You have an amazing group here and your web site is also excellent!

Well... I must apologize my translator for the flourish style May be that was spring time in Rio when I wrote that? Good job, anyway. Have you lived in Brazil, by the way? That would be impossible for me to translate EVERYTHING I write... That would be great, I know, but it´s out of my way, hope you to understand me.

I´m just 27 years old, so I haven´t even heard about the brazilian Nahat until I started to research about Romeu Feres who was one of the best arab singers we had. That´s a long history - not only music promoters claim to be the introductors of arab music in Brazil... That would be… “common”, I must say. We have a very big problem here , that would be impossible for me to talk about that. You should live here to know. But anyway, history has been erasing and the new generation of musicians just don´t care about. They don´t care in a strange way… Reading all your interesting (foreigners) about Nahat… That sounds ironical for me!


Why Brazil? No… not to escape from the Nazis. Brazil became very famous in the Middle East during the 1800´s when the emperor Dom Pedro, the second, decided to travel to the world. Monarchy soon failed, but the presence of the “king” raised the interesting of the arabs… They started do arrive by that time, people used to have a romantic imagination about Brazil as a new land, with many chances. Arabs keep on coming for different reasons since that time. Brazil received lots of Palestinian refugees two or three years ago. Brazil used to have a deep importance in arab cultural scene during the 50´s, 60´s… Lebanese modern literature is surely influenced by Brazilian modernism. Romeu Féres could sing not only in Arabic, but also in Portuguese, Italian and Spanish. In general these artists were famous even in Syria and Lebanon… the same we can say about the Arab-Brazilian musical instruments. Some of these conclusions are written in the book I have cited in the end of my article about Feres - ZEGUIDOUR, Slimane. A Poesia Árabe Moderna e o Brasil. Editora Brasiliense, São Paulo: 1982.


When I finally received Romeu Feres´ records I decided to research about him and write an article. Not exactly to “save the world”, but to express the importance of that artists. A newspaper from Santos (the city where Feres lived) talked about someone called Nahat. “Nahat was Feres teacher” they said. I soon researched about Nahat and had the information that his full name was Elias Abdo Nahat. There are lots of legends about the way he made people astonished…


By that time, I contacted Vitor Hiar and he told me that Elias was George´s brother and that they were both respectable luthiers. Vitor Abud Hiar was Fuad Haidamus´ pupil; I guess he knows a lot about this subject, for sure he is a Master, as Haidamus was. Haidamus’ tablas were one of the best ever. I could play one personally last year and the instrument had still a great sound!


I don´t think Vitor knew Nahat personally, but I´m not sure. Yes, he knew Romeu Féres… but Nahat? I must ask him… But Suzana Khlat knew him! Suzana was an arab singer, his son is my friend. Suzana´s uncle, Naim Karakand, was a very famous violinist. May be you know him. I have pictures showing arab musicians together in 1928 and Naim Karakand (violin player who lived in the USA) when he came to Brazil in 1937 to visit his brother Chukri, who was also a violinist.
http://arabesc.multiply.com/photos/album/112/112

My multiply ARABESC was created to talk about EVERYTHING, not only about music. But my researches are increasing, guys! This week I created a new multiply page only as a tribute to Brazilian Arab musicians.
http://altarab.multiply.com/


Next month I´m going to Sao Paulo. I´m trying to find more information about some other oudists… This will be my second trip! One of our best oudist died last month. That was a chock… I can´t do anything for him anymore…


I´m writing about Elias Nahat… so I "failed" here. Are we walking in circles? I hope I could help you in a way… Because you helped me. I had no idea about all "NAHAT dynasty”! Well done! Mike, may I take some of NAHAT OUD pictures from your site to ilustrate my article about Elias Nahat, please? Doing credits to you, of course.


Well, folks… that´s all. I hope you like the history… not exactly a Gabo´s book … may be a “novela” (soup opera) as it´s happening in Brazil. ) I see it´s difficult to find reliable information about Brazilian arab music. I try to do my best. And I don´t earn anything, it´s just a hobby… It´s a hard work… I don´t hit the target every time. When we search, we never stop. Please, Mike, Keep in touch!
Have a nice day, Hugs from Brazil. Livia Jacob.

Dear Livia,

welcome on the forum ! We are very glad that you join us altough my portugese is non-existent
(but with french I can more or less understand) I found your website very interesting..

Thanks a lot for all you are doing for keeping the history of Arab music in Brazil alive !

Some people here (myslef included are quite obsessed by Nahat family's history... see a more recent discussion that we had:
http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=10628#pid71...

I am sure there is lot of information that you can find here in Brazil : stories, pictures,... I also read somewhere that there is a small museum in Sao Paolo about Nahat luthiery, have you hear about that?


best regards,

Dan

Hello, everybody!

Thank u for having me here! It´s an honor, indeed. I´m traveling to Sao Paolo next June or July, I don´t know exactly. Depends on my boss… Anyway, I will try to contact Jorge Aidamus, who is Fuad Haidamus’ brother. Jorge is a very good oud player from that generation. I will ask him about Nahat. I also intend to interview Said Azar… an oud virtuoso, beautiful voice also… unfortunately he´s very sick… cancer. I don´t know exactly what can I do. It will be hard for me to interview him , I hope to not bother Said. I guess he´s having bad days, suffering a lot. I will try to do my best. Some special people are helping me with the contacts (phone numbers, addresses, etc), mainly Vitor Hiar and Jorge Khlat (Suzana´s son). Just keep your fingers crossed for me! May be in one or two months I may come back here to give any news.

Danielo:

I can´t write in a perfect French, however, I can read it quite well. There are many French people here in Rio, you must know that. I made some good friends from France, unfortunately they are now living in Paris. I miss them a lot! This people were crazy. And of course: the best parties I have gone… unforgettable!) What I want to say is – it´s maybe better keeping the English as our official language. Although I´m a non-native speaker and my English is not 100%… About a Nahat museum in Sao Paolo… Are sure about it? I have never heard about that, Dan… I saw the link. Wow! You guys are really mad about Nahat history.

Daveh:

Just never mind. In fact I like your critics. They make sense. I was angry when I wrote that article. I really have to find the “right tone”. May be – get down… You are totally right about the differences between English and Portuguese pragmatics (cultural) aspects. English is commonly written with short sentences. In Portuguese we like going in a long way. To translate is always a hard work. You did a good job in my opinion. I had no idea about fake nahats ouds… Hope Nizar to get in touch.
p.s: Você morou muito tempo na Angola? Infelizmente não tive a oportunidade de passear por essas bandas... E confesso que conheço pouquíssimo da música angolana, embora goste muito de música africana por causa da percussão. A kizomba e o Kuduro são similares a ritmos que temos por aqui. Sem dúvida a influência de culturas africanas na música brasileira é marcante. Se tiver oportunidade, conheça o Brasil. É um país lindo. Sou suspeita para falar. Um beijo!

That´s all, folks. “See” you soon.

Livia Jacob

Hi Livia,

about the museum I read it in a french book about Damascus.. you can get a sample here.

I don't know why you do not receive an answer from Richard (our Dr. Oud), who is always very helpful... The fact is that he did not post on the forum for some time, I hope that he's doing well!

Please collect as much info as you can from these old musicians in Sao Paulo, all our small oud community would be really grateful

Keep us updated !

regards,

Dan

Salut, Danielo. Merci pour votre attention! And also thank u for the link, I have checked it. I have never heard about a Nahat Museum before, but I will ask for it when I go to São Paulo.

Unfortunatelly I commited a mistake. I thought Dr Oud was Mike´s nickname, I mean Mike, the forum´s owner. Sorry Mr. Hankey. I finally received an aswer from the right Dr Oud and he redirected my email adress to Elias´daughter as I requested him. I hope her to help me with my researches. Unfortunatelly I can´t force people to help me. It depends on each´s will.

Let´s see what happens. I always try to keep myself optimistic. For sure I will keep you updated. It´s my pleisure! By the way - Thank u very much indeed for support me. Sometimes even in Brazil it´s not easy to find musicians interested in our history...

Regards and see you soon,

Lívia.

Hi, guys, I'm back.

Here are the results of my researches:

http://altarab.multiply.com/journal/item/5/5

Soon I will publish the pictures of Elias Nahat's ouds. Please, Daveh (or anyone else), can you correct my English mistakes?? This is very important to me.

I hope this may be usefull for you. Longing to hear from you,

Livia.

Olá Livia,

I was about to write you to have news about your research!

thanks a lot for this unvaluable contribution to the Nahat's history ! I just read it, it is really
very interesting... we're all waiting for the pictures

Unfortunately I cannot help you with English (mine is no better than yours )

Just one thing to avoid confusion: the father of Elias is usually refered as Abdo George, not George Abdo (which should be the full name of his son George, as the second name is the father's name).
EDIT: I just noticed that this is a problem in the English version, but not in the Portugese.


There remains one big mystery: The Nahats were the most famous luthiers of the Arab world... Apparently Elias had the talent to be a great luthier as his father (as Adel Salameh testified)... so why did they emigrate to a country where they probably expected that the oud demand was low ??


regards,


Dan

Great unprecedented research. But one "fact" is still controversial, and that's the claim that Farid's oud shown in the photos is George Nahat's !

NO, IT IS NOT !

This particular Farid's oud had been built by a Lebanese luthier called Emil Khoury from Beirout.

The famous Iraqi luthier Thabet Albasry saw the oud personally at Faisal Al- Atrash, Farid's nephew's place in Cairo & wrote in "Zeryab Musical Forum" he had seen the label himself, but couldn't take a photo of the inside of the oud . The label says : "Emil Khoury, 17 Bishop Gabriel st. Ashrafeyah, Beirout, Lebanon". See the attached photos.

The Syrian junior player Ghassan Yousef had a once in a lifetime chance to play the oud as shown in this video :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SINA5Dd8Fc

It's not clear though who is this luthier Emil Khoury &/or if he was really the luthier, or had he just restored the oud while Farid lived in Beirout; but in any case, it's obvious from looking at the fixed bridge that it's not Nahat's AT ALL . All Nahat ouds I've ever seen, whether in person or in photos, had the same bridge as my George Nahat's 1942 bridge as seen in the last photo attached herewith.

Yours indeed
Alfaraby

Hi, guys. Thank u so so much. I have no words to express all my gratitute. I had a hard day. It's like finding the oasis!

Dan, merci , you were right about the name.... a problem with the translation. I have already corrected! About coming to Brazil, well, I think it's not exactly a mistery. Dear, I have a close friend here, she's french. 84 years old. She married to run way from the World war2 and came to Brazil. Yes, she look for a foreign husband. Here she had to start the university from the 1 year (in France she was gratuated)... but at least could work as a french teacher and felt safe. Yes, sometimes the only thing we can do is TO SURVIVE! Even nowaday she is scared about France, because she has very bad memories. This may sound impossible for us, cause we don't know what a war is. Lebaneses and syrians came to scape from the turks (that happened to my gradpa)... and from the war. In the Middle East this "neighbours"have their problems. Here they became friends. We have syrian-lebanese clubs, hospitals and do one. I see the Nahats could work with wood (not only making ouds, they were specialized in making furniture also). We used to have many woods here (still have, but now ... well, that would take time for me to explain). For sure coming to Brazil to work with wood was a big deal by that time. They were not ONLY luthiers. They were also luthiers. I see Elias missed building the instruments. Why did he waited so many years to build that again?? For me it's clear - we can't build an instrument without research. he may be had a long research on brazilian woods and many experiments, until find the best way to do that. I guess he studied for years! Elias keep builting the instruments much more for passion, althought we had good oud players here, but they were not so many people as they were in the East. That's what make the history so beautiful to me, he was in love with it.


Hey, Daveh, no problem. I just wish you didn't know me. That would be great to hear your comments again hehe I hope you to be true and don't fell shy to tell me what you think, ok?

Alfaraby, it's a honour to hear from you. Well, now that makes sense. I took this picture from this forum, I don't remember the exact link... I will remove the picture....

Thank u, a thousand times. You have no idea of how your comments mean to me!

See you.

http://altarab.multiply.com/photos/album/5/5
http://altarab.multiply.com/photos/album/6/6

The first albuns of the collection. Sorry, I have been so slowly... I wish I could upload everything faster, but.... no time.
There are more 10 instruments... i'm editing the whole thing.

I hope you like it!

Ola Livia,

thanks for the pictures ! really beautiful ouds

Ta traduction est tres bonne ! Juste une chose :
It is not 'meubles ou entaux' but 'meubles orientaux'


In 1930 Elias worked in his father's shop, so it may be that Elias constructed this one as well... see here for an Abdo and Elias women's model of the same period. Quite similar except the pickgard..

regards,

Dan

Quote: Originally posted by ALAMI

the serial numbers stayed consistent and consecutive over the years whether the rosettes were signed Abdu Only, Abdu & sons then Abdu & Elias.# 1964 in 1921 - #2161 in 1924 - #2333 in 1927 - #2500 in 1929

A Mystery, isn't it !!

Yours indeed
Alfaraby

Quote: Originally posted by shareen

I would love to book a trip to Damascus to figure it out but they won't let me in with and Israeli stamp on my passport . Musicians should have full diplomatic immunity I think! We are more diplomats that the "real" ones.

It is not 'meubles ou entaux' but 'meubles orientaux'

Thank u, Dan. I'm lucky to know some french and some arabic, otherwise, that would be difficult to create this catalogue of the instruments.

I think u are right, may be Elias made this one with his father... and wow, thank u for showing me the women model, so interesting! And quite similar to this one I have photographed!

Al Faraby, thank u so much for translating the whole arabic text. That would be impossible for me without your help. And you are right, this number makes no sense. Could it be a 2.608?? I am posting some other pics here. Can you read them and tell me your opinion?? I am waiting to hear from you...

p.s.: I will post some others pics showing more brazilian nahats as soon as I can.

p.s. 2: About a new passport to Shareen - Why don't you come to Brazil? You don't need any new document and of course, we have the most beautiful beaches and landscapes on Earth! Of course Syria is also beautiful, but.... I'm sure you will have no regreat.

Quote: Originally posted by liviajacob

Could it be 2.608 ??

Hi, Alfaraby!

Numbers are easy to translate hehe The most difficult is to translate the arabescus (draws). I have asked a friend of mine to help me.

I Guess Elias' production wasn't so large here in Brazil. May be because he did the job alone (or almost alone) and as a hobby. He produced 100 instruments from 1969 (or 1970) to 1985.

It's my pleisure. Thank u a lot and I hope you to keep on helping me!
Livia Jacob.

Quote: Originally posted by liviajacob

The most difficult is to translate the arabesques (draws) . Thank u a lot and I hope you to keep on helping me !

Hey, Al Faraby, that's what I told my friend, that may be Elias had written something similar to the label's text. I can understand the words Brasil, Sao Paulo, Abdo Nahat, sons hehehe That's all. The rest? I guessed hehehe Thank u for solving this mistery!

Number 35 rosette is even worst to translate. Hope u help me when I upload it!

Please, look the 2 new albuns I have uploaded today. Number 73 and number 63. There's a pea<b>rooster</b> in the n.73 rosette! And it's not written Abdo Nahat and sons, for the first time. The label inside was identical to the others brazilians Elias' instruments.

Were there some other pea<b>rooster</b>s rosettes in the Sirian ouds from the Nahats or was it a brazilian special edition?? I'm curious to hear your aswer!

I will upload more pictures....

I meant pavão, the bird. Why did the editor erased the word in English? Is it because...??? OMG, I can't believe it.......!


Rosette, not rooster. Anyway...

p.s. Pavão that's the name of the bird in portuguese (also means someone who likes to be in the spot, an exhibitionist).

Let's say peahen, so. may be that will solve the problem!)

Quote: Originally posted by liviajacob

Number 35 rosette is even worst to translate. Hope u help me when I upload it ! Were there some other "peeacoock" rosettes in the Syrian ouds from the Nahats, or was it a Brazilian special edition ?? I'm curious to hear your answer !

Thanks Livia, really great shots. I made a special folder in my ouds album & called it "Livia Nahat in Brazil" where I save your special photos of The Nahat Legacy in Sao Paulo . WOW !!

I can't recall I've ever seen a peeacoock 's (Arabic : Tawoos طاووس no connotation whatsoever ) rosette like this, neither on Nahat's ouds, nor on other Syrian or Egyptian ouds. It seems like they've liked a well done graphic design & cut it .
Though it's pretty nice, I wouldn't have chosen it, since the full uncut parts would block the sound coming out of the soundboard & obstruct the loudness .

I shall be tuned to figure out the 35 rosette. There's nothing which is "translation resistant", so worry not . I'm here !

Thanks a million again .

Yours indeed
Alfaraby

Hi, Al Faraby! Two new albuns today! I think these are very special. The first one shows furnitures, Nahat's woody pieces and some studies on wood. In my opinion it's a special legacy. The other one is also very important and interesting for those who love ouds. That are Elias' draws. I felt extremely surprised when I saw all that draws! He was indeed talented. And that are his sketchs of the Cathedral. Very nice. Hope u like it too!

Well, I will say "peahen", once the text editor is reproching me I fell like I was in a talk show and the soundman put a "BEEP" ever time I say the name of this naive bird!
But for sure it's a male, not a female hehe Just to make things easier.

It's sad to hear about the sound quality, but makes sense. There was another طاووس rosette, It's oud number 75. I will upload it soon!

Do you have an online oud album collection? Or it's a private one? Any way, I fell honored!

This is me who thank u!

Livia.

This is too great to be imagined . There's no way I can express our gratitude, as Nahat junkies, for the unprecedented work of yours, LIVIA ! No one has ever revealed this much info about Nahat's legacy in such a short time like you've done .

Great carpentry indeed !
It was written In the original oud label of Abdo Nahat that they'd make "all oriental crafts" ! It seems they did !
It's amazing though that even though Abdo got famous for his ouds, it had never been written on his label he's a luthier !!

The designs of Elias are marvellous. I didn't have enough of them yet, but I shall get back to them later on. The ornaments aren't totally new for me since we've seen some of them inlaid in some ouds like in these attached old oud built by Abdo & his son Elias, back in 1927.

My ouds album is my collection of the great ouds uploaded to this forum & others. Nothing really important to anybody but me , but you're invited to take a look, once you come over to the Holy Land as a pilgrim. You should do so sometime, shouldn't you ?

I shall be waiting for more ouds photos.

Thanks again & again

Yours indeed
Alfaraby

Hey Al faraby! Thank u. I fell blessed to see that my work wasn't in vain! You have no idea how important your comments are! REALLY!

Of course I couldn't do everything by myself. Don't forget about it - Nahat's descendents were great in opening their doors and let me photograph everything. And many other people help me - Richard Hankey, Vitor Hiar and now - you. I'm very grateful.

I have uploaded two more albuns today. Please, take a look and tell me your opinion. The other طاووس rosette I have told you. And I ask you to see oud number 94. Haven't Elias carved the number 1988 in the rosette??? But the year written in the label is 1984! May be he had to change the rosette and put this new one in 1988??
A mistery....

"all oriental crafts" YES. May be that's why they could survive in Brazil and earn money, as many other arabs who arrived by that time. For sure brazilians were able to recognize Nahat's talent with woods and furniture and of course, their wokholic way of life. And may be Nahats felt fine when they first see our woods. Fantastic woods. Many of them are threatened nowadays.

Jamel, my grandpa (the brazilian one, not the lebanese) also worked with woods (to build furniture, houses and mainly big ships) in the amazon area. That's another reason that makes me love Elias' work! They are masterpieces! Being honest, I have no idea about how they sound like.... I wish I could play them to know! If Elias built tablas, I could say something.

If Brazil win the match tomorrow, I will post more pictures during the weekend, otherwise.... hehehe Just kidding, of course I will do it anyway, but just a way to make you cheering on us hehe

"once you come over to the Holy Land as a pilgrim. You should do so sometime, shouldn't you ?"

Well, I hope so, of course. But when? I have no idea! The farthest I could reach was Turkey.

Hope hearing from you.

Hello Livia
Thank me ? Don't mention it at all, please. We have done nothing, compared to your great job, here & in altarab site.

I've seen them all for now ! It seems that Elias has invested more in making the rosettes, than in the bawl . I haven't seen any special woods from Brazil yet . Had he ever used Jacaranda, for instance, in a real unique bawl ?
Any how, they're masterpieces, each and every one of them.

From looking at the sketches made by Usta Elias Nahat for the Orthodox Cathedral in Sau Paulo, it seems that the late luthier wasn't only a luthier, but also an architect, a graphic designer & a talented Arabic calligrapher. We always thought it was only Mohammad Fadel who designed & "wrote" his own rosette. Now we know that Elias stood behind all his rosettes designs as-well .

Hurray !

In no. 94 oud rosette, the year is 1977 & not 1988, so the mystery is figured out now, I guess. He had this 1977 rose model, but it was only in 1984 when he decided to cut & use it ! A guess though !

Suggestion : why not upload a sound file for each oud ? It's the sound that matters after all, doesn't it ?

As to the match tomorrow, we'll all hope for a Brazilian knock out, like we've been used to in the old times. For now it's not happening, despite the victories. Well, I don't know . Maybe this time it shall happen. So, good luck.



Pilgrimage ? Two more steps from Turkey, and you'd be here. Welcome anytime !

Thanks more & more

Yours indeed
Alfaraby

Counting Nahat antiques the family was very very productive

Of course we are so fortunate , because this way everybody is having an original Nahat!

Quote: Originally posted by PellMellow

Counting Nahat antiques the family was very very productive Of course we are so fortunate , because this way everybody is having an original Nahat!

Hi, Al Farraby!

Very bad game, have u watched? Pour us, I must confess we were expecting this "shame". Although soccer has changed a lot (the artistic style from the 1960's / 70's Pele and Garrincha does not exist anymore, today's style is much more like a trade style only), Brazil should give the best, but they didn't during the whole World Cup. I will buy a ticket to Buenos Aires. Let's see if Maradona will really take his clothes off hehe That would be crazy to see (may be a nightmare?)... but anyway, I don't want to talk about this subject now...

I have uploaded two new albuns. Oud number 99 is almost the last. The family estimates he had built 100. Isn't it beautiful?

I can't recognize all the woods, although my grandpa worked with this (he died when I was 1 year old). I wish my mother were with me in São Paulo. She would know the name of the woods, or at least part of. I guess number 40 is a Jacarandá instrument, I mean, it looks like. You will see soon. The number 80 (I have uploaded today) was made in a dark wood, but surely it's not a jacaranda. It's probably caviúna, which is very used in musical instruments (as cavaquinhos, guitars, and so on). I would like to know if he used brazilian cedar.... this wood was easy to find here until 1980's.


BINGO! You really solved the 1977's rosette's mistery! Can you help me in translating oud number 99? I will post a large pic here.

hehe Let's see if I can visit the holy land one day. Our summer vacations are during midle east winter (december/January). But as we dream for free... I keep on dreaming hehe


Yours, Livia.

Quote: Originally posted by liviajacob

I don't want to talk about this match now... Can you help me in translating oud number 99 ?

Neither do I ! What a shame !

99 rosette in altarab site is not actually readable, but I can guess it contains names of Arab & more musical maqams. Get me a bigger & clearer shot & I'll figure it out.

I shall be back to this later. Now I'm very angry

Thanks a million more dear Livia

Yours indeed
Alfaraby

Not exactly "angry"... people here are very sad, crying a lot! I fell bad for Julio Cesar, he was crying also. Not his fault at all. Well, there are many problems in this team and with the coach... but as it's not an appropriate place to talk about soccer... Let's be concentrated on Ouds...

I'm uploading a larger picture of 99's rosette. Can you read it??

See you later...

Quote: Originally posted by liviajacob

Can you read it ??

Thanks Livia.
Yes I can ! Not because I'm a genius (God forbids) or so, but because I've seen this rosette before !
As I've guessed , this is a maqamat rose, the same as the attached Abdo's from 1905 . I may dare & make a hunch : Elias, being an Arabic calligrapher himself as aforesaid, renovated his dad's rose and made a nice replica of, like I have done myself once upon a time (attached) & gave it to Jamil Khalaf & Abu Alaa` as a present, but they hesitated a lot & didn't make a rose out of it. Well, yet !!
Still Abdo's much more beautiful & authentic than Elias's & mine.

So here we go : "Asfahan, ushaq, rahawi, rast, hoseini, bosalik, hijaz, zarkolah, iraq, nawa, bazrak, bayati, zarafakand (a rhythm maybe ?? )..." & maybe some more.

We said farewell to Brazil & Ghana tonight. It seems every time I decide to be a fan of some teams, they simply loose

Yours indeed
Alfaraby

Livia,

Thank you very much for presenting your family's legacy here. It is VERY much appreciated. I have been watching closely and enjoying see the Nahat legacy brought to light after so long. For years I wondered about where the Nahats ended up, and what happened to the artwork of the famous family. My own work has been greatly influenced by your ancestors, and I continuously find inspiration in their work. I was thrilled to see the sketches and drawings that you uploaded, in addition to the inlay sample boards prepared by Elias. Simply fantastic. I have spent many hours creating inlays and patterns based on Nahat designs, and its so nice to see how they developed the patterns. If possible, I'd love to see a hi-res image of the pattern boards if possible in order to learn more about how they are made. One pattern in particular I'm very interested in is the highlighted one in this picture. I've deconstructed this pattern (see my other attachment) and figured out the various elements, but have yet to make it. Thanks again for your efforts. The Nahat family is awe-inspiring.

Quote: Originally posted by alfaraby

We said farewell to Brazil & Ghana tonight. It seems every time I decide to be a fan of some teams, they simply loose

Quote: Originally posted by fhalaw

Al Faraby, Please dont cheer for Germany

Quote: Originally posted by Jameel

Livia, Thank you very much for presenting your family's legacy here.

Quote: Originally posted by fhalaw

Quote: Originally posted by alfaraby   We said farewell to Brazil & Ghana tonight. It seems every time I decide to be a fan of some teams, they simply loose Al Faraby, Please dont cheer for Germany

Hahaha Maybe Al Faraby is what brazilians call "cold feet", in portuguese - pé frio. This expression is generally used to someone who gives no luck to the team. Just like Mick Jagger. I guess he cheered for Argentina just to see brazilian a little bit "less sad".

Quote: Originally posted by alfaraby

Quote: Originally posted by liviajacob   Can you read it ?? Thanks Livia. Yes I can ! Not because I'm a genius (God forbids) or so, but because I've seen this rosette before ! As I've guessed , this is a maqamat rose, the same as the attached Abdo's from 1905 . I may dare & make a hunch : Elias, being an Arabic calligrapher himself as aforesaid, renovated his dad's rose and made a nice replica of, like I have done myself once upon a time (attached) & gave it to Jamil Khalaf & Abu Alaa` as a present, but they hesitated a lot & didn't make a rose out of it. Well, yet !! Still Abdo's much more beautiful & authentic than Elias's & mine. So here we go : "Asfahan, ushaq, rahawi, rast, hoseini, bosalik, hijaz, zarkolah, iraq, nawa, bazrak, bayati, zarafakand (a rhythm maybe ?? )..." & maybe some more. We said farewell to Brazil & Ghana tonight. It seems every time I decide to be a fan of some teams, they simply loose Yours indeed Alfaraby

Thank u sooooooooo much! How interesting it is! I will upload your translation and of course, this pictures you have sent me (I will not forget to put your name there, ok?) !

Dear, I uploaded everything today. Yes, Nahat's albuns are finally completed! You can see the brazilian label + ouds numbers 35, 40 and 68. And a surprise - A qanoon. Yes, this instrument was probably manufactured by Elias. I could'n see the label very well, so it was impossible for me to say the year and a number serie.... Hope u may forgive this miss.

Al faraby, I have no idea abou what zarafakand is. May be it's Zarfand 11/4 (sounds like a rythm of turkish origins)??

http://www.alsiadi.com/Iqaa_Zarfand11_4.html

I'm crazy about rhythms. This web site was the discovery of the week! Thanks to you Al Faraby (indirectly, I know, but I was looking for this rhythm to show you and I find that fabulous website)!

Please, take a look at oud number 35's rosette. Can you read it? Rosette number 40 is maybe identical to Elias's oud No. 85 rosette...

Well, guys.... I believe I'm almost saying bye bye. The Last Nahat album was uploaded today... It makes me fell blue... I hope you have enjoyed all that! The journey is ending...

Quote: Originally posted by liviajacob

Quote: Originally posted by Jameel   Livia, Thank you very much for presenting your family's legacy here. Hi, Jameel. Oh, no, dear, I'm not from Nahat's family. Please, don't say that anymore. The Nahat could be afraid of me forever hehehe I'm just a researcher and thanks to Dr Oud, I could find Elias'descendents. Elias had many diaries, but the family put it in the garbage, once they can't understand arabic anymore. I fellt broken hearted when they told me that. For sure there was a treasure in those notes.... I will post this pattern in a best resolution, as you asked me. Yours, Livia.

Hi, Alfaraby! You are very kind! Thank u. Well, I will try to do my best. If I manage to receive more stuffs, for sure I will share with you. I wish I could contact the other Nahats. Just this Elias'daughter let me see her personal collection. I have sent them a SMS (cell phone) yesterday, but no aswer yet. I will phone them tomorrow and see if they can send me a picture of Elias and his brothers. That would be great!

About your conclusion hahahha So its not theirs anymore?? OMG! :-D

I knew the qanoon would surprise you. That's my final gift hehe I wish I could hear the sound also, dear. Unfortunatelly, there aren't many anoon's players here.

Jameel: never mind! Misunderstandings happens. I saw your ouds. WOW, they are incredibly beautiful! And have a lovely sound, very great work.
Well, I am publishing the picture you asked me, ok? The pattern. In a high resolution. I wish this may be usefull to your work.

I Thank u all for beeing so nice, this was very important to me. And hope you to keep your gratitute to Elias, his work and, of course, his family generosity.

See you! Livia.

Quote: Originally posted by liviajacob

I will phone them tomorrow and see if they can send me a picture of Elias and his brothers. That would be great!

Quote: Originally posted by fhalaw

Why are you guys so obsesed with the Nahat family ? Buy a nice oud that sounds good and just play man.

OMG Fadi ! What a question ?
I think you're missing something here, so read, see, play, observe, compare, tune an all original Abdo Nahat oud & you'll get what we are talking about here. I can't just explain, you should experience yourself.

Moreover, did you think anyone here is sitting alone outside grabbing his head between his hands & morn the fact he ain't got a Nahat ?
We all have several ouds (haven't we) and Nahat's among others & that's why we're looking for another one, the ultimate oud, that does not really exist, like this one attached !

Cheers Fadi

yours indeed
Alfaraby

Hi, dear Al faraby.... well, I guess Elias kept his ancestrors religion, once he was an orthodox catholic in Brazil (nothing to do with the pope ], as they used to be in Syria. I haven't asked the descendents if they are still orthodox or if they became roman catholic (most common in Brazil)... in general I avoid to talk about religion (you know how problematic this subject can be). I don't know if people try to wipe out their past in a conscious way... maybe it's not volunteer, but a survival mechanism, and to the new generations, it's a "natural" route. One of my closest friends here is chinese, although he was born here, his parents are 100% made in China. He and his brothers can't speak mandarin or any chinese language. They are 100% brazilian. Why? Because they were born here and even their parents are much more brazilian than chinese after living here for ages... People can't forget that the imigrants suffer a lot. It's not easy to leave your own culture and try to change your habits from night to day. You just do this in a way to survive. There are prejudices, of course, and surely we are too "broad-minded" , at least that's what the arabs tell me (this may shock some easterns). But in comparision to other places, arabs have a warm reception here and can practice the religion they want to. There has never been any persecution against roman catholics, protestants, orthodoxs, muslims, jews or any one.


Good/bad? Well, dear, it's a difficult choise.Perhaps you don't need to chose! We can't be manichean. Sometimes things are good on one hand and bad on other...

I must be bothering everybody with this subject. Sorry....

So about your request:

I will phone them this wekeend. I have been so busy. And unfortunatelly, I had a problem with my mobile... I hope them to give a picture of Elias to this forum!


Ok, now let's see your questions.

Why did Nahat family staying in Damascus has stopped building ouds ?
Answer: Have they really stayed there? Haven't they moved to the USA or Canada as many syrians did?Must check.

Why didn't anyone of their descendants try to obtain their father's/g.father's profession, like almost everybody in the East had done for ages ?
Answer: Because here in Brazil that would be impossible for them to survive just manufacturing OUDS. That would be interesting in the East, not in the West, once here people have no idea about what is an oud. They could work with furnitures, that's a recognized profession, but I guess Elias (as many of his generation) after earning some money, encouraged his children to go to the university and have a carrer to ensure their lives. My grandpa did the same. But past times... things changed a lot. Elias watched the Economic Boom. This is over now.

Has the immigration of Abdo the great to Brazil in 1938 just broken them ? Did they all just lived in Abdo's shadow and gained benefit of their family name, or were they great luthiers by themselves ?
ANSWER: I don't know. I know they were all respectable furniture makers and they earned money with this profession. Some old arab members of SAO PAULO community remember ELIAS and his ouds... these people told me he was a luthier who loved to astonish people with the strings of his instruments.

Where did Rofan's, Hanna's & his sons George & Tawfiq's, Antoin's children ?Were they all by chance sterile/infertile or did they have descendants ? Is there any next of kin to anyone in Damascus today ?Have anyone ever tried to contact them ? Dr.oud
ANSWER: I asked the Brazilian Nahat by that time. They told me the genealogy must be review. They have no contact with anyone in Damascus.

Well, I hope I could help you... Thank u very much for translating me.


Yours, Livia.

Quote: Originally posted by alfaraby

Quote: Originally posted by fhalaw   Buy a nice oud that sounds good and just play man. OMG Fadi ! What a question ? I think you're missing something here, so read, see, play, observe, compare, tune an all original Abdo Nahat oud & you'll get what we are talking about here. I can't just explain, you should experience yourself. yours indeed Alfaraby

Thank u a 1000 times, guys. I'm learning a lot!

Quote: Originally posted by alfaraby

Quote: Originally posted by fhalaw   Why are you guys so obsesed with the Nahat family ? Buy a nice oud that sounds good and just play man. OMG Fadi ! What a question ? I think you're missing something here, so read, see, play, observe, compare, tune an all original Abdo Nahat oud & you'll get what we are talking about here. I can't just explain, you should experience yourself. Moreover, did you think anyone here is sitting alone outside grabbing his head between his hands & morn the fact he ain't got a Nahat ? We all have several ouds (haven't we) and Nahat's among others & that's why we're looking for another one, the ultimate oud, that does not really exist, like this one attached ! Cheers Fadi yours indeed Alfaraby

Quote: Originally posted by Dr. Oud

The sad fact is that in the Arabic (and Persian) cultures, only family members are taught the art/craft by a maker. .

Quote: Originally posted by Dr. Oud

The tragedy of the loss of the knowledge and skill of the Nahat family may be recoverable, it just may take another 200-300 years to develop.

You are right, Al Faraby. It's not just an Arab-tragedy. My mother's grandmother knew a lot about the herbal remedies of the florest and the correct way to prepare them. However, she didn't teach her daughters, cause according to her, her descendents were not "gifted" by God. Besides that, she didn't even teach anyone else! All her knowlegde died with her. The same thing happened to many "natural doctors"of her generation. I am not comparing this loss to the Nahat's case. May be my exampe may sounds silly, but shows how a cultural treasure may desappear from Earth so easily.

And, yes... none can be just a professional oud maker without having another profession... that's sad.

But I can also understand what you, Dr Oud, want to say. I really can...

Well. I hope u may reconstruct what time destroyed.... I have learned a lot with you.

Yours, Livia.

Hi, folks...

I am back. With some good news... and some bad also...

The good news for you - Mussalam Dib´s son, Walter, got in touch with me. He asked me to write a tribute to his late father who was a Brazilian-Syrian (imigrated from Homs when he was 14 years old) oudist and composer... he recorded some Arab Lps here in Brazil, during the 60´s and 70´s. Walter sent me many old pictures, showing western musicians in Sao Paulo last week, and I published everything in Al Tarab.multiply.
Today he sent me some more pics. Those photos show Mussalam´s oud. And as I have supposed, it´s a Nahat. Mussalam was very close to Elias Nahat, as Walter told me, so I was almost sure that some of his ouds came from Nahat dinasty. But one more mistery raised now, guys... The label (not the same label of the other ouds I have taken pics) show the date - december, 05, year 1934. Elia´s family told me he and his sons came in 1935. Abdo George came after, in 1938. But if Mussalm got this oud in 1934, so the family arrived before! May be Elia´s family can´t remember the exactly year of arrival (that would be really difficult, if they don´t kept any document or passport), but I guess we are now getting closer...
This label has the adress - RUA MONSENHOR ANDRADE, 8 - São Paulo, BRAZIL, handwritting, what proofs that the instrument was made here, without shadow of doubt. But for sure Elias label is a post-label, as it´s written in Portuguese.... Now, who can solve this case?

Elias´label: http://altarab.multiply.com/photos/album/17/Brazilian_Nahat_Label_E...

The 1930´s syrian label (Elias oud, kept by his family) - http://altarab.multiply.com/photos/album/7#

Mussalam´s oud - http://altarab.multiply.com/photos/album/30/30

Now, the bad news - Next year, I will close Al Tarab. It means that everything I could collected until present time will be there. But I am not going to do any other uploads... Hope you have enjoyed, specially Nahat´s instrument in Brazil.
http://altarab.multiply.com/reviews/item/3


Have a nice time. Merry Christmas, happy new year and so on...

Yours, Livia.

Hi Livia,

too bad you will put an end to your research But thanks a lot for all what you have done so far

Here is my proposal for the mystery:
the label on this oud is exactly the same printed label that was used in Syria for decades by Abdo George. As you can see in the bottom-right corner on your pictures, there is still the address in Damascus printed on this label. So for sure this label has been printed in Syria. Would Elias have bothered about carrying printed labels with him on the boat to Brazil? So I think that the oud was made in Syria, in 1934 indeed. Later on in Brazil, for some reason, Elias (or George who knows) had to open the oud for a repair (maybe due to the drastic change of climate), and add to the label this handwritten address.

Does it make sense? A way to check would be to find which woods are used on this oud... exotic ones or not?

regards,

Dan

Quote: Originally posted by Dr. Oud

Hey alfaraby, I see Abdo in the shams, but when was your Nahat made? It is spectacular!

Hi, folks....

Maybe you are going to like it. I hope so! A gift to Nahat ouds´ addicted. I must confess I did not want to open the web site again... but it would be a pity to waste those pictures... I know it can be usefull to many people. So... I am back for a while. Unfortunatelly Elia´s grandson gave me no clue about the year of those Ouds...

http://altarab.multiply.com/photos/album/31
http://altarab.multiply.com/photos/album/32/32
http://altarab.multiply.com/photos/album/33


With my best wishes, Livia.
P.s.: By the way - Happy 2011, happy carnival, Happy easter and whatever....

Quote: Originally posted by Alfaraby

OMG ! Livia keeps surprising us over & over again. What a great exposure of Elias Abdo Nahat (1902-1993), RIP. No one on the net has ever seen his face before today: Palms Sunday 2011, for he didn't use to stick his "nose" in every label, like other did. He just wrote Abdo Nahat & Sons, but never inked his photo in the label. See for yourselves the labels @ Livia's site.

Mahraba, ya aziz! Thank u for supporting me. It seems that there was a strong reason that forbade Elias to stamp his face in the labels. Another member of the family wrote me last week. Elias´ niece. She gave me some new information... Let´s see if she keeps writting or if she gives me her phone number. It´s common to be emailed by people who show some interesting in helping us.... and suddenly they just disappear (sometimes they help for a while and them show they are not interested anymore. I just don´t like to imagine myself as a distubing person and I can´t publish stuffs without people´s agreement. So you see.... it´s not very easy).

Anyway, Elias´picture was really nice!

Mavrothis and Adel, You are right, the oud is just WOW. Do you envy those peoples, Alfaraby? So do I. I also wish I was as lucky as those heirs!)

I fell happy to see how excited you folks are reading the altarab´s updates. Incredibly, Brazilian-arab musicians don´t show 1% of your enthusiasm about my research. C´est la vie... et c´est le destin. And here I am... back, despite such things. I would fell worse if I had not re-open the site to post that 4 you.

Have a nice season guys (as I don´t know when I will come back... and if I will come back). Bye bye.

Brazilian Elias Nahat oud (1976) in Nazareth

This evening I had one of the most moving experiences I had with the Nahat ouds issue . An old friend of mine, knowing I suffer from an acute Nahat fever, invited me to join him in a visit to a friend of his, who had told him he's got a Nahat oud. We dropped in at a very friendly youngman's place, who, after serving (Brazilian) coffee, brought a big cartoon box from which he pulled out a velvet bag, apparently containing an oud, & showed us his Nahat : It was a brand new oud, very shiny and a clean soundboard, so I thought to myself: OMG, another replica ?!

"The story of this oud", said the gentleman, is in short : " My parents visited Sao Paulo/ Brazil back in 1976, where my mother was supposed to meet cousins of hers. One of these cousins was Mrs. Elias Abdo Nahat" !
OMG, I held my breath ... "They had a wonderful time with the old couple, and before leaving, Elias Nahat gave my father an oud of his. My late dad apologized he doesn't play the oud, but the oldman insisted he'd take the oud and try to play it. He told my old man that this is a handmade of his, so dad thankfully took the oud and said farewell to the nice couple, hoping to see them again. My parents visited another cousins of my mother's and didn't have a chance to re meet the Nahats again. Two weeks or so later, they flew back home, leaving the oud at one cousin's home, asking him to return it to Elias.
After my folks left Brazil, Elias knew they've left the oud in Sao Paolo, so he got very angry saying this oud was a present to my wife's relatives, how do you let them leave it here ? He took the oud, went to the post office and sent the oud to my father via air mail ! A month or so after my parents came back, they got an notice from the customs to come over & pick up some item coming from Brazil. Coffee ? Wondered my father ? What could it be ? He released the item right away to find in this same cartoon the same oud Elias gave him in Sao Paolo. So here it is the present of Elias to his wife's cousin" End of story !

So here I am holding the first Brazillian Nahat oud in my life. As far as I know it's the only Brazilian Nahat oud ever seen in Palestine &/or Israel, "It's brand new", I said & our host replied : "It is ! It has been kept like this for the last 35 years in the same cartoon sent by Elias ever since and no one ever played it but me once I tried to learn how to play and shortly quit" .

The bowl is made of an unknown wood to me, pretty heavy, the soundboard is B' class spruce, the roses are handmade ivory on wood, the fingerboard is ivory inlay in ebony, the bridge is the same we see in other Nahats', the pickguard is ebony ...

Unfortunately, I couldn't play the oud. The strings were old & worn out producing dull sound, but after all it sounded just like any other new oud, or unplayed oud for 35 years.

What a pity !

Take a look !

Yours indeed
Alfaraby

Quote: Originally posted by Adel Salameh

Another point also to say that Palestinain people have the best Nahat ouds in the World and when a Palestinian hold a great Nahat in his /her Hand..... that oud will never ever go...it stays with the person.

OK then ... being half Armenian I think it's only fair that I should step up to the mark and announce that I will undertake to accept all your spare Karybians and Bedrossians from around the world into my safe keeping.

... you know it makes sense

Leon