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mechanical oud tuners: anybody selling some?

Edward Powell - 11-8-2009 at 02:11 AM

I am looking to buy some... but they are pretty expensive - - - so I am just wondering if anyone out there has some sitting around they feel like parting with??

Aymara - 11-8-2009 at 04:46 AM

Hi Edward,

in my order oud in winter thread we discussed these pegs at the end of page 1 and the beginning of page 2 ... there are also URLs to order them.

As it seems, there are acceptable prices too.

Hope this helps a bit.

Edward Powell - 11-8-2009 at 04:51 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Aymara

Hi Edward,

in my order oud in winter thread we discussed these pegs at the end of page 1 and the beginning of page 2 ... there are also URLs to order them.

As it seems, there are acceptable prices too.

Hope this helps a bit.

oh really, I will have a look.
Another thing which frightens me is having something send from outside of the EU to Czech.... in fact, I would much rather have them sent from inside of Czech because sometimes the Czech customs adds 30% tax!!!

I will search on the Czech search engine......

Aymara - 11-8-2009 at 05:08 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Edward Powell

... sometimes the Czech customs adds 30% tax!!!

Shocking

Sorry, I don't know anything about Czech taxes. I only checked German taxes ... other EU countries should be similar, but who knows ... for importing instruments the limit seems to be 22.5%, but the shipping costs are taken into account to

Edward Powell - 11-8-2009 at 10:53 AM

well, I was charged 30% before CZ entered the EU.... probably now it is much less.

Aymara - 11-8-2009 at 11:10 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Edward Powell

... before CZ entered the EU...

For the import of musical instruments to Germany I would have to pay 19% Import VAT and 3.2% duty (the duty falls away, when bought in another EU country). But calculation basis is what you paid for the instrument plus the shipping costs ... grrr :mad:

I ask myself, why we have double tax agreements! Import VAT sucks

I would expect it to be similar in other EU countries, but who knows.

Good luck!

Edward Powell - 11-8-2009 at 11:15 AM

so you pay about 19% on the original sale.... then another 19% in Germany, plus perhaps another 3% duty --- totally a maximum of 41%!!!!?

i think this is what happened to me a few years ago --- shocking!

Aymara - 11-8-2009 at 11:28 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Edward Powell

... totally a maximum of 41%!!!!?

Even more, because you pay Import VAT + duty for the sales price + shipping costs .. taxes on shipping costs ... unbelievable in times of globalisation.

And yes, that's really shocking ... I remember the "virtual scream" in the forums of a french oudplayer, when his oud arrived from ... was it Egypt? He was totaly upset because of the taxes ... it was an expensive oud.

Edward Powell - 11-8-2009 at 11:40 AM

how can they charge taxes on the shipping costs :mad:

---just greed i guess?

but i guess it depends on other things.... I ordered strings from the UK, total 27EURO, and was not charged any tax (lord of strings gives free shipping on orders over 25EUROS)

...anyhow, my normal tuners are actually working just fine (!).... little bit of pencil graphite and they are much much more managable.

Aymara - 11-8-2009 at 12:09 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Edward Powell

just greed i guess?

Our country's run by pure incompetence ... as I always say

Quote:

but i guess it depends on other things...

On one hand it depends on the kind of product ... strings are not a musical instrument, only belong to it ... and they cost peanuts compared to a guitar or oud and peanuts are not controlled as it seems.

Edward Powell - 11-8-2009 at 12:15 PM

Germany is run by pure incompetence???! Really? It has the reputation of being the most 'together' country on earth more or less!

Aymara - 11-8-2009 at 12:49 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Edward Powell

Germany is run by pure incompetence???! Really?

The problem is, ministers are laymen, for example health ministers being no doctors, etc., but are former teachers or lawyers instead. I think you know what I mean.

This incompetence often leads to political decisions, where experts shake their heads.

I remember an interview in TV ... politicians where asked if they read a special financial experts report about how to best compensate the reduction of tax revenues by an income tax reduction. Most said, they had no time yet and the report had to much pages. Only one acknowledged that she read it and understood nothing. Bingo ... that's it.

But I don't think, it's much different in other countries, but most people don't realize this problem exists.

Luttgutt - 11-9-2009 at 06:43 AM

In Norway I pay aroung 52% (it depends on the original price). And yes, we pay for shipping too (I can't undersand why we have to pay for shipping! I think it is pure greed!!).

Edward Powell - 11-9-2009 at 07:00 AM

You mean if you buy an oud for 500euro and it costs 100 shipping, then you have to pay 52% on 600? ...which means in total you will pay over 900?

Wow, how is someone supposed to do business with rules like this?

Aymara - 11-9-2009 at 07:21 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Edward Powell

Wow, how is someone supposed to do business with rules like this?

You got it!

I was already thinking, if it wouldn't be a nice business to import "world music" instruments like ouds or tablas to Europe, but these taxes are business killers, because the prices here will be too high.

Luttgutt - 11-9-2009 at 07:37 AM

Yes Sir!

p.s. if the item costs less than 200 kroner (around 33 dollars), then you pay NO taxe..

Edward Powell - 11-9-2009 at 07:38 AM

no only killing an import business, but it would kill an instrument makers business as well. For example, if I want to sell an oud that I have made to someone in another EU country, I need to actually count that if I sell it for 500, they will be paying an extra 100 shipping and 300 taxes---- then on top of that I should claim the 500 as income and pay what (?), 30% (175) on top of that? So from making and selling an oud for 500, various gov'ts will get about 500 also for themselves????!

On top of that I am a duel citizen (CAN/USA) living in the EU... so if I would truly do everything by the books I ought to be paying tax on this 500 in 3 different countries??? :shrug:

Edward Powell - 11-9-2009 at 07:40 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Luttgutt

Yes Sir!

p.s. if the item costs less than 200 kroner (around 33 dollars), then you pay NO taxe..

so much for encouraging fine craftsmanship - - - let's just sell chinese ouds for $32 and make a killing! :airguitar:

Edward Powell - 11-9-2009 at 07:42 AM

it would be better to send the oud as a gift.... or take a cheap ryan air flight and deliver the oud personally!

Luttgutt - 11-9-2009 at 07:48 AM

Well, some dealers are nice and understanding, and they do sens as gift if you ask!

But in that case, I am not sure what happens if the pack gets damaged or lost!

Edward Powell - 11-9-2009 at 09:23 AM

ah ha!!!!!! Now I understand why last Xmas my Mom sent us a huge package full of special and expensive Japanese traditional foods and medicines - the package NEVER ARRIVED!

Aymara - 11-9-2009 at 10:14 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Edward Powell

let's just sell chinese ouds for $32 and make a killing! :airguitar:

Luthiers should sell oud assembly kits, that can be send as several cheap packages

Quote: Originally posted by Edward Powell

it would be better to send the oud as a gift...

But then the sender should be a private person, not a company ... the duty personnel at the airports knows that trick

Edward Powell - 11-9-2009 at 11:31 AM

often luthiers are private persons....

fernandraynaud - 11-9-2009 at 03:07 PM

The art of the double ("silly") invoice is well-understood by most exporters. Also clever designs like a single "hexa-synthesizer" I remember that consisted of 6 brand new boxed identical synthesizers and a few cables that had a declared value that plausibly matched its single nature

You guys in Europe should not complain. The system of customs/duties e.g. does a good job of protecting Norway's oudmaker from competition (there must be one somewhere). Of course restricting the VEHICLE of outside competition is also important, hence the duty on shipping.

I could never understand why the US has duty in the 5-7% (of silly invoice) range.

Luttgutt - 11-10-2009 at 05:41 AM

Quote: Originally posted by fernandraynaud

You guys in Europe should not complain. The system of customs/duties e.g. does a good job of protecting Norway's oudmaker from competition (there must be one somewhere).

You really think we have a oud maker here!?! Think again

Edward Powell - 11-10-2009 at 06:14 AM

i think he was being a bit sarcastic :wavey: