Jonathan
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Makam help
I need some help understanding the whole ascending/descending thing with certain makams--one set of notes on the way up, and a changed note on the way
down. Sounds simple enough, I guess, but just what is "on the way up", and "on the way down"? How strictly are you supposed to adhere to this?
Every time the preceeding note is higher, am I supposed to stick with the descending makam notes? If I am playing a taksim, is this followed in all
of the three sections?
I know that this concept is pretty basic for a lot of you, but I would really appreciate the help. I have been listening to taksims a lot, and I
still haven't figured out this concept.Thanks!
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oudmaker
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Jonathan,
There are some makams that you have to strictly adhere to this rule in order to identify the differences between sister makams such as (Evic-Ferahnak)
some others you do not.
Again you are making mistake to try to understand a makam by listening a TAKSIM !!!
Please don't.
Try to understand a makam and its seyir (ascending/desending) by listening a recorded classical Peshrev or Sazsemai of it.
The artist who is making a taksim may always claims that "he feels that way" and do whatever he feels. He is allowed to do so if he knows what he is
doing. And if YOU KNOW THAT MAKAM then you understand what is happening. But you just can not learn a makam from a taksim regardless who is doing it.
The only exception I can think of is if the taksim is made to you by an instructor and for the pupose of to teach a makam.
Regards
Dincer
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Jonathan
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Dincer, that makes a lot of sense. Because the rules just didn't seem that strict with taksim. I always learn something (usually, a lot of
something) when I read your posts. So I now I will dig out some Peshrevs. Thanks!
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oudplayer
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jon
in the beggining this was my major problom whikle learning oud. but know i learned ecacly why u know now> plus taqim you can basicly start witha
makum and do some crazy stuff out of the makam and then go abck or not its up to u
thx sammy
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al-Halabi
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Jonathan,
The meaning of "ascending" and "descending" in reference to makams is often confusing, but the distinction is really fairly straigthforward. Briefly,
each makam has a set of rules that define how melody and improvisation are to be constructed using the mode in question. These include the particular
pitches of the scale of the makam, the finalis (the final, resting note), the leading note (the lower note that precedes the finalis and leads to it),
the dominant note (usually the fourth or fifth above the finalis, which serves as another tonal center and a point of transition between tetrachords.
One additional ingredient is the melodic progression (seyir) of the makam, which is the key to your question. Some makams are defined as ascending
makams, which means that the melody or improvisation will begin on or around the finalis and progress upward to the higher notes of the makam before
terminating on the finalis. Rast, for example, is a descending makam, so a taksim in the mode would always begin around the note Rast, progress
through the first tetrachord up to the dominant note Neva (open second string), from there progress through the next tetrachord to the octave on
Gerdaniye (open first string), etc. before returning to Rast. Other makams are defined as descending makams, in which the melody begins on or around
the octave and after exploring the higher portions of the mode descends to the finalis. Hicazkar is an example of such a makam. When you listen to
taksims in Hicazkar you will notice that they begin around the note Gerdaniye rather than the finalis Rast, and that they include an eventual descent
toward Rast, on which the taksim would typically end. There is also a category of makams whose progression is ascending-descending. In these makams
(for example Huseyni) the taksim or melody would originate on or around the dominant note (the note Huseyni, or fifth above the finalis, in the case
of makam Huseyni) and concentrate much of the playing in that general middle area of the scale while making both ascending and descending runs from
there.
As for your question about when to lower a changeable note, as a general rule it depends on the direction of your melody. For instance, in makam Rast,
when your melody or cadence is at a point of taking you to the finalis Rast, you would often lower the note evic to acem (in Arab notation that would
be from b half-flat to b-flat). That kind of lowering of the note takes place typically when you are headed in a general descending direction toward
the note Rast, not when you are just playing in the area of that changeable note. In other words, the flattening of the note is determined not by the
immediate note before it or after it, but rather by the overall direction of the melody. It is difficult to explain all the technical nuances in a
message, but when you know whether the makam is one with an ascending or descending melodic progression, and whenf you know where you are headed in
your improvisation, that makes the indicated alteration of notes much clearer.
I tried to keep this short, but I hope it is of some help.
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al-Halabi
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In my previous message I mentioned Rast as an example of an ascending makam, but by mistake called it descending.
Dincer makes a good point about taksims not adhering to the rules of melodic progression as rigorously as precomposed pieces. This is particularly
true of more recent Arab music, which approaches the finalis or tonic as the starting point of makams that previously were considered ascending modes.
This has made the old distinctions between ascending and descending makams less relevant. Turkish music theory has been more careful to maintain the
distinction and adhere to the melodic progression associated with each makam.
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eliot
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Another thing about ascending and descending bits and which note to use:
For some makams, which use higher 6th or 7th notes when ascending, the passage has to be demonstrably moving to the octave in order for it to qualify
as ascending. For example, in Rast on C, you would often find the passage:
GFGAB-flat AGFG
or
GAB-flat cdcdcB-flat AGFG
but if you were moving to the octave, you'd be using the higher B half-flat:
GFGAGAB-halfflat ABccccccc
Some makams seem to use more of the higher option, some use more of the lower option.
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Jonathan
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al-Halabi, eliot, oudplayer--thank you all for your help. You have made it all a million times clearer for me.
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