edisoned
Oud Lover
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Registered: 10-4-2007
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Oud soundboard dip/warp
I could use some input.
I bought a used Oud about 2 months ago that was built by Viken in 2000. It was listed on this forum. It's a beautiful instrument and I'm enjoying
learning to playi it. I put on some new Aquila strings which are great. Someone recently pointed out to me that there is a bit of a dip in the sound
board between the bridge and rosette. I hadn't noticed it before and am not sure if it came to me this way or if it has developed in the past 2
months. It dosen't seem to affect the tone.
Any thoughts or suggestions? Am I looking at getting the top repaired in the future or is this common on Ouds?
Thanks for any help.
Ed
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eliot
Oud Junkie
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Well, a bit of a dip is not a bad thing, and some makers have deliberately constructed their ouds so that they dip (rather than go concave up, which
is a much bigger problem). If the dip becomes substantially deeper, well you will probably be looking at a re-bracing job, but I doubt it with a Viken
oud.
My Yücel dips a bit, and I remember that Scott Marcus' Najaryan oud (made in the mid 90s) also dipped, and AFAIK that hasn't affected anything at
all.
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Brian Prunka
Oud Junkie
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Hey Ed, eliot's right, a slight dip isn't a bad thing. Dips usually take a long time to develop, so if yours was built in 2000 and has just a slight
dip, it's probably going to be okay. I doubt it could have developed in the past two months. Viken's faces are quite thin, though, and the Aquilas
have pretty high tension . . . I know some of Viken's older ouds (the ones I saw were from the early 90s) have had problems with this, but my 1998
Najarian has been fine, as have all the more recent Najarians I've seen, so I think he figured out the problem and addressed it.
I actually think a bit of a dip is kind of helpful in that you can have very low action, but still have some clearance where your risha is so you
don't hit the face. As Eliot said, concave is a much bigger problem.
The only thing I'd suggest is maybe trying some different strings with lower tension until you're sure the dip isn't getting deeper.
Are you tuning Arabic or Turkish?
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edisoned
Oud Lover
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Registered: 10-4-2007
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Oud soundboard dip/warp
Thanks for the feedback that makes me feel better.
The tuning I'm using is from low to high, C,F,A,D,G,C
I bought the Oud from Roger who is a member of this form and he was using a custom set of D'adario strings that were a bit heavier than the strings
that I switched to.
What strings are you using Brian? I'm dealing with some string buzz on a couple of courses that I can't seem to get rid of. What would be a good low
tension string to try?
On another note, do you think you'll have a chance to post any of those Brahem transcriptions over the holidays?
Thanks, this forum is a great resource.
Ed
Hey Ed, eliot's right, a slight dip isn't a bad thing. Dips usually take a long time to develop, so if yours was built in 2000 and has just a slight
dip, it's probably going to be okay. I doubt it could have developed in the past two months. Viken's faces are quite thin, though, and the Aquilas
have pretty high tension . . . I know some of Viken's older ouds (the ones I saw were from the early 90s) have had problems with this, but my 1998
Najarian has been fine, as have all the more recent Najarians I've seen, so I think he figured out the problem and addressed it.
I actually think a bit of a dip is kind of helpful in that you can have very low action, but still have some clearance where your risha is so you
don't hit the face. As Eliot said, concave is a much bigger problem.
The only thing I'd suggest is maybe trying some different strings with lower tension until you're sure the dip isn't getting deeper.
Are you tuning Arabic or Turkish?
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jdowning
Oud Junkie
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The attached image of gulcin yahya and oud - taken from the thread "Woman Oud Section" illustrates the typical soundboard distortion quite well. Note
the shadows of the strings projected onto the bass side of the soundboard are not straight indicating that the soundboard is not flat but is distorted
in longitudinal profile.
A tied string bridge tries to rotate under string tension causing the soundboard dip in front of the bridge. Furthermore a good oud or lute should be
constructed so that it is close to structural failure under string tension - hence the distortion.
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jdowning
Oud Junkie
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Thomas Mace "Musick's Monument" , London, 1676 wrote 'concerning the mechanical order of the lute' in Chapter 4, part 2 of his book - which may also
be relevant to the oud today. To summarise Mace says:
"And you must know, that once in a year or two, if you have not very good luck, you will be constrained to have it (the belly) taken off.
Because the belly being so very thin, and only supported with six or seven small weak bars, and by the constant stretch of the strings (which is a
great strength) the belly will commonly sink upon the first bar next above the bridge, but sometimes upon any other, and so cause it (the bar) to let
go its hold at the ends of the bar, and then your lute will jar and grow unpleasant (in sound).
And if not timely amended, worse inconveniences will follow, which may endanger the spoiling of the belly. Therefore, whenever a bar is loose, let it
be quickly amended or presently let your lute down to a lower pitch or untwist your strings and lay it (the lute) by, till you can get it mended".
Mace also talks about selecting a lute, identifying faults etc and says:
"..... try whether the bars (which are within, to strengthen and keep it (the belly) straight and tight) be all fast, which you may do by gently
knocking the belly all along, round about, and then in the midst, with one of your knuckles; and if anything be either loose in it, or about it, you
may easily perceive it, by a little fuzzing or hissing (buzzing): but if all be sound, you shall hear nothing but a tight- plump and twanking
knock".
I have left the quotes essentially "untranslated" in the original 17th C English text - except for my additions in brackets and spelling updates - but
I think the meaning is clear enough as it stands.
Bear in mind that 17th C dwellings in England of Mace's day would have been fairly damp and humid places - unlike most modern houses - so the problem
of bars "letting go" would have been more common then than it may be today.
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