Jason
Oud Junkie
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Registered: 9-17-2005
Location: Louisville, KY
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Unison strings don't intonate the same
I remember reading a thread a few months ago about this problem but I'm wondering the best way to fix it and, possibly, the reasons behind it
occurring in the first place.
My C strings go out of tune with each other as I go up the fingerboard.
I think I remember reading that you should take one string off and flip the ends... is that right?
How/why does this even happen? And how does flipping the string fix it? It seems like it would be the same either way
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Jason
Oud Junkie
Posts: 734
Registered: 9-17-2005
Location: Louisville, KY
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woops I didn't mean to post this here. Mike, can you move it?
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SamirCanada
Moderator
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hey I have the same problem...
I would like to know why it does that.
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Alan
Oud Junkie
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Location: Tampa Bay Florida
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Not sure why flipping the string works but I had the same problem with my high string on my Fadel oud. Flipped the string and the problem was solved.
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jdowning
Oud Junkie
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Italian lute players of the early 16th C had this problem with strings made from sheep's gut which were non uniform, having a natural taper - a thick
end and a thin end. Intonation problems were corrected - to some extent - by turning a string around - by either fastening the thin end or the thick
end to the bridge as necessary. Apparently, some high quality lute strings of the 16th C (made in Munich) did not present this problem because they
were more elastic (had more stretch) than the common strings of the time.
Difficult to understand why there should be a similar problem with good quality, uniform, modern strings made from synthetic materials, manufactured
under precise, quality controlled conditions. Is it possible, however, that some brands of string are not made as well as they might be.? Time for
change perhaps?
In the meantime, if turning the string around works - go for it!
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carpenter
Oud Junkie
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Registered: 8-30-2005
Location: Eugene OR
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<< Difficult to understand why there should be a similar problem with good quality, uniform, modern strings >>
Agreed. Unless you changed one string of the pair and not the other ... I've noticed that (kind of) happening on my steel-strung octave mandolin. I
change pairs now, not singles - and whether they need it or not.
Otherwise, I'm drawing a blank here. Not sure why end-for-ending a string should make any perceptible difference at all. Hmm. I await further returns.
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journeyman
Oud Junkie
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Registered: 12-28-2003
Location: Toronto, Ontario
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I had this problem with a set of Aquila Nylgut strings. I have changed the strings and all is well. I have the same problem with the high E string on
my classical guitar. I use Savarez strings and often with a new set the high E is flat. I flip the string around and this corrects the intonation
problem. Find out which of the two strings is flat and flip that one.
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charlie oud
Oud Junkie
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I believe this problem is caused by an irregular diameter somewhere along the string, poor quality control during manufacture. Flipping the string
will alter the position of the part of the string which is not true. This can see off the problem for the note which is sour but can also create the
same problem for a different note on that same string. It is not a common problem and is more likely to be found on rectified nylon, Nylgut and other
strings with a processed matt finish rather than on plain nylon. If it occurs more than a couple of times then it can certainly put the player off
choosing that brand. C
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Jason
Oud Junkie
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Location: Louisville, KY
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I flipped the string today and it mostly fixed the problem. Instead of being sharp by quite a bit the string still goes flat by a few cents up around
G and gets a little worse as you go further up. It's really not noticeable for faster notes or if you apply heavy vibrato but it still pretty much
drives me crazy.
Aquila Nylguts are the culprit here by the way. I think I'm going to send them an email asking about it because it seems to be a fairly common
problem with those strings and it kind of stinks spending that kind of money on strings that don't really work properly.
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SamirCanada
Moderator
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Add me on the list for aquilla problems of that nature.
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Jason
Oud Junkie
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Registered: 9-17-2005
Location: Louisville, KY
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I sent the USA branch of Aquila an email. I'll post if they send me a reply
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Jason
Oud Junkie
Posts: 734
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I ended up contacting Aquila directly. I got an email back within a few hours saying they had never heard of the problem before but they would gladly
replace the strings. I sent them my address.
It's been over a month and I still haven't seen anything. Even if they were coming from Italy it should have been here by now. Kinda aggravating
when you spend $30 on a set of strings that won't work. I'm definitely buying a different brand from now on as this seems to be a fairly widespread
problem with Aquila.
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DanielH
Oud Addict
Posts: 38
Registered: 3-2-2008
Location: Philadelphia Area
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Mood: Satisfied
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I've had this same problem with La Bella Strings...
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Michael_al_faaris
Oud Lover
Posts: 24
Registered: 7-21-2007
Location: Flagstaff, Arizona
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I've also had this problem with my last two sets of Aquila lights (C course dissonance up the neck on my Shehata), not corrected at all by replacing
the pair, flipping the flat string, or reversing the nut (hey, don't laugh, I was desperate)
I'm ready to change brands, but is there any new advice that anybody can offer that they learned over the past year? Is there any make of string
least likely to have this problem?
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paulO
Oud Junkie
Posts: 535
Registered: 9-8-2004
Location: California
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Hi Michael,
You could contact Jameel and order some singles and pair up the ones that work. I've never used Aquila's, but I have had problems with LaBella's from
time to time. You could check out the individually guaged D'Addario strings. Pyramid's individual lute strings can be excellent, but they're kinda
pricey. I guess the least expensive route would be to contact Jameel and see what you can come up with. Don't buy whole sets of strings just to get
the high c pair -- good luck.
Cheers..Paul
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Michael_al_faaris
Oud Lover
Posts: 24
Registered: 7-21-2007
Location: Flagstaff, Arizona
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Thanks Paul. I will probably go to replacing individual courses if I ultimately find that there are disparities in string life. As it is, I have
only been playing oud for about thirty months and consider myself to be still experimenting with different strings, using Aquilas and LaBellas mostly,
up until now.
I had replaced the c'c' course with another Aquila pair and had the same problem with dissonance. Discouraged, I installed a set of Necati Celiks,
the problem was resolved immediately, and I am happy with the sound I get from the whole set so far. We'll see how I feel about them after they
settle in and age.
I had found the Nygul gg strings to be unstable in direct sunlight anyway. I will follow up with a report of how the clear nylon strings work
outdoors. Suspect that the quest for optimal equipment will be perpetual, but for now I'm okay.
Thanks again. I will see what Jameel thinks eventually, as I get my strings from him almost exclusively.
Mike Keberlein
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