fhydan
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High action? Solutions?
Hi folks.
My oud has a slight problem. The action is a little bit too high. I think it is because of that white piece at the end of the neck, I'm not sure what
it is called. I would like to take it out and file it down a little, but I'm wondering what sort of things should I watch for? Can I get one of those
things online so I can file it down to whatever size I want to be? Are there any specific tools I need to be able to file it down??
Any tips are appreciated!
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Marina
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Are you talking about the "nut"? If yes, you can take it out - (it is not glued, if yes just knock if a bit an it will fall out), and with "brush" it
with glass paper until it gets lower. Usualy, you buy a piece of white bone - just like guitar for guitar nut but without "canals", an you etch the
canals (11) simetricly and logicly by yourself. Each oud hase different neck size, so there is no standard for those nuts.
Good luck.
If it is not a question of the nut, you need luthier.
Guitar nut:
Glass paper:
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Reda Aouad
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| Quote: | Originally posted by fhydan
Hi folks.
My oud has a slight problem. The action is a little bit too high. I think it is because of that white piece at the end of the neck, I'm not sure what
it is called. I would like to take it out and file it down a little, but I'm wondering what sort of things should I watch for? Can I get one of those
things online so I can file it down to whatever size I want to be? Are there any specific tools I need to be able to file it down??
Any tips are appreciated! |
Hi.
Are you sure it is the nut causing the problem? the nut should be a little bit higher than the fingerboard and not flush. What if it was a neck
warping problem? Did you check the neck? Put a ruler on the neck-body joint and check if the neck is bent for example. It may also be because of a
high bridge. You'd better make sure what the problem is before filing down the nut.
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Marina
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Look at this beutifu oud from one of the posts (Kalaf) how the oud nut should look like.
;-)
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fhydan
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Marina, thank you so much for the explanation! This is really helpful! How would I dig those canals? I'm worried that if the canals aren't smooth
enough they may rip the strings, right?
What kind of tool should I use to do that?
Reda, thank you for replying! Now I'm a bit more cautious about filing down the nut because of what you told me. I -think- it isn't a warped neck
because the neck on my oud is one of those necks that extend onto the sound-board(sadafa). So I guess it isn't bent because the neck-part that is on
the sound board is still attached to it, and the neck is straight when compared with itself. However, the strings are supposed to become higher and
higher the closer I get to the sound-board, right?
I am assuming it is the nut because I used to own an older oud and I could stick the risha between the strings and the neck near the nut(snug fit
under the strings), and the risha would hold there in a tight fit. With this oud, the risha simply falls out. Am I correct in assuming that the risha
should get stuck there?
I am not sure how I could check if it's the nut or the bridge though.
I think I will try filing down a new nut and keep my old one just in case. I'm worried that if I get a smaller nut the strings might be too close to
the neck and make ugly noises. A friend once who used my oud told me that there probably was a problem with the oud and that's why the shop owner put
a higher nut on it, to make it sound less raspy.
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Reda Aouad
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Even if the neck extends inside the soundboard it may bent. I would insist on putting a long ruler on the neck-body joint to check it - if you haven't
done so yet. And if your risha dotter heesn't hold under the strings at the nut then it may be because of a high nut. Could you post some close-up
pictures so we can belp you?
And you are right.. the grooves on the nut should be perfectly shaped or else the strings will probably rip and tear (especially the wound ones) and
you will get tuning problems and buzzing and you will wish to stay with a high action rather than a bad nut. I am no expert on how to do this but in
this thread I attached a file "Taking care of your lute" and it explains a bit how to dig the canals. You may experiment but the best would be to ask
a professional. Not only they should be smooth, but also have the correct diameter and depth etc..
And of course.. as u get farther from the nut towards the bridge, the distance between the strings and the fingerboard increases. The ideal distance
between the string and the fingerboard at the neck-body joint should be 2-3mm, unless the fingerboard is not 100% flat with small bumps for example
which would create buzzing and bad sounds - thus the need to raise the action.
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Reda Aouad
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Im sorry I forgot to put the link to the thread.
Anyways here is the file attached instead.
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fhydan
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That will be very useful. Thanks.
I checked the neck with a straight object for now as I dont have a long ruler. The object touches the neck at the beginning and at the end of it, but
in the middle there's just enough space to see light through. I can't even fit the thinnest risha I have in between it and the neck. I can however,
slide a piece of paper in and out.
I put all the pictures up at
here
A couple of things: The nut is not even, which makes the action on the bass strings higher than on the treble strings. I didn't notice this before, I
must have gotten used to it. Also, the way I tied the strings tugs the action up a little bit I think, I'm not sure how much. You can see in one of
the pictures the knot tugs the string up a little.
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Reda Aouad
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The nut is a little bit higher than what it should be. And the action on the neck-body joint is pretty high. The best is to make a new nut and keep
the old one just in case. The neck bent is not much significant as you described it. Try also to tie the strings in a way to lower them more as you
suggested. I hope it works with you. Good Luck 
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rojaros
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Hello, I just looked at the pics you posted. The nut seems to be only a small part of the problem. The action is quite high, indeed.
Either the neck is wrongly angled to the body or it is maybe to curved, or the soundboard has raised ... difficult to tell from the pics.
Have you tried to lower the string position at the bridge? You need to loosen the strings and than pull them down as much as possible at the wholes
where they come out.
If the sound is OK you could also try a lighter set of strings (this would especialy help if the soundboard or the neck raises because of a too high
tension.
A very nice set on the lower tension side is the Daniel Marin set, that happens to be a very decent set and quite affordable on top of it.
Or you could even try to use another tuning with less tension (I sometimes go down form arab tuning in c to Arab tuning in B or even B flat, which
makes a semittone or even a tone lower then usual). You might loos volume but gain richness of sound.
Anyway best wishes
Robert
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Reda Aouad
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Robert,
Does the string tension affect the action that much? I mean the action needs lowering by few millimeters.. maybe 2mm or 3mm.. does it help to that
extent?
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Marina
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Well,
I agree (when we saw the photo) with Rojaros & Reda ...the nut here is not the biggest problem...
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fhydan
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Thanks to everyone of the suggestions. I'll definately try lowering the nut. It may not lower the action all the way but every little bit can be nice.
I'll also definately try strings with easier tension as Robert suggested. I don't know if that will make the action lower, but it should make it
easier to play despite having the same tension, I imagine.
I'll try to tie the strings so that they are not tugged up by the knot anymore. I really really like the sound on this oud. I hope I don't resort to
the horror of finding a new oud in the USA.
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fhydan
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What if I had the holes on the bridge drilled a little lower? Or replaced the bridge all together?
Any things I need to worry about if I try that? I probably won't be doing this myself.
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rojaros
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Hi Reda, in my experience string tension c a n affect the action, if the sound board is too thin (soft) and raises through too high tension (some
string sets have a higher tension than others).
Sometimes, when there is a damage in the upper part of the neck (e.g. a split between the fingerboard an the neck, this makes the neck rise and
produces also a high action.
And last not least, lower tension is easier to play and sometimes sounds better (less guitarlike).
| Quote: | Originally posted by Reda Aouad
Robert,
Does the string tension affect the action that much? I mean the action needs lowering by few millimeters.. maybe 2mm or 3mm.. does it help to that
extent? |
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fhydan
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I tried lowering the tension like you suggest, Robert. It really helped. The action is still the same, but ithe oud is much easier to play again and
it still sounds rather nice! 
I still think I need to file down that nut, but at least now I won't hate my oud in the meantime.
Thanks to you all.
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Reda Aouad
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Great.. that's one good progress.
Your pictures show also holes in the bridge lower than those were the strings are in. If you lower the holes too much you will have hard time playing
your oud as the risha will touch the soundboard (or pickguard) every time you pluck a string.
Btw who is the maker of the oud?
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fhydan
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Maker of the oud is Tareq Azooz from egypt. I picked the oud up from saudi arabia. It was a nice oud. But I think the weather in Michigan must have
distorted the wood a little.
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rojaros
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Hello, so if lowering tension helps, consider playing a low tension set. That could be for instance Daniel Mari strings, which are very good ans ahve
a very sensible priceing. With time, when the tension is lower, some deformations of the sound board (if they happend) might work their way back and
the oud could improve again...
see http://mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=8157#pid54147
Of course there are also other low tension pud sets, eg. Aquila (but they cost at least twice and a half as much).
best wishes
Robert
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fhydan
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Hey Robert. I tried the Daniel Mari set and I love them.
The oud is much easier to play now and doesn't sound lazy like it did when I had tuned down my pyramid strings.
Thanks!
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rojaros
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Great to hear, Fhydan ...
I always feel that working with problem spots on an instrument makes it more interesting than trying to have the perfect thing. If you have to work
around a problem zone, it inspires new ideas and techniques...
best wishes
R.
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