fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1865
Registered: 7-25-2009
Location: San Francisco, California
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Mood: m'Oudy
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Would like to reshape neck on Sukar. Advice?
I love my Model 1 Sukar, but there is one (very personal) thing I would change if I can. Ideally, I would prefer the neck profile to be a little
flatter, more "D" shaped, less "semi-circular". My Adani has a 22.5 mm thick neck at Rast, My Egyptian 21 mm, and both are "faster necks", to use
electric guitar parlance, than my Sukar at 24.5 mm. Even these small differences affect fingering.
BTW, what are some other typical neck thicknesses?
The Sukar neck appears to be solid walnut, with a 3 mm fingerboard atop. I can imagine shaving the back of the neck down a few millimeters, maybe 3,
starting at the pegbox, and up to the thin metal post (at 2.5 cm from the body-neck junction) that is part of the neck adjustment mechanism.
Refinishing is not a problem, as the wood is simply stained and polished.
But am not sure what is inside. Does anyone have experience with the Sukar necks, how exactly they are built? I would hate to run into a stringer or
something. Any other concerns? Is this altogether a Bad Idea?
And out of curiosity, does anyone know how exactly that adjustment mechanism is built?
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alfaraby
Oud Junkie
Posts: 796
Registered: 9-18-2009
Location: Holy Land
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Mood: Cool
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I totally agree with Fernand that Sukkar's neck is a little thick. I tried my best to explain this to the luthier, but he didn't seem to be eager to
replace the line in his oud factory !!
I had an antique Syrian oud, that has been repaired &/or restored by Mr. Ibrahim Sukkar of Aleppo/Syria. The strings were 59.5
cm long while the neck was 19.5. Something bothered me with these dimensions that made the oud unplayable to me.
I suspected it was Sukkar's, so I decided to replace the neck . I took it to the best luthier around, Kamille Mowais of
Nazareth & asked him to change the neck to a 20 cm one so that the string would become 60 cm long, just as it should actually
be.
Kamille sew the neck & the iron butterfly fell down into the bawl. He asked what's the hell was that & I immediately knew my suspicion was
right: "It's Sukkar's patent", I said.
Kamille faced great difficulty sawing the neck, because of the three 10 cm metal nails connecting the neck to the bawl ! He just couldn't believe what
he was seeing/sawing: solid steel inside a 1 kgm antique oud !! I guess this was the first time Ibrahim's neck was replaced, and not the other way
round. I took the old with my newly born neck oud, just in case I had to prove my suspicion was right.
So here it is: the slaughtered neck of Sukkar with the nails .
I hope this helps to understand the patent & help you to decide whether to sharpen the neck or not .
p.s. There's absolutely no 3 mm fingerboard atop. It's all full walnut piece of wood . Zoom & see
Yours indeed
Alfaraby
Attachment: Sukkar's neck 2 (99kB)
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Attachment: Sukkar's neck 1 (125kB)
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Attachment: Sukkar's neck 3 (194kB)
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alfaraby
Oud Junkie
Posts: 796
Registered: 9-18-2009
Location: Holy Land
Member Is Offline
Mood: Cool
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The new neck is ideal for my left hand . It's 18 mm up to 22 mm as shown in the attached first two photos, while Sukkar's is 22 mm up to 26 mm (third
photo)!! The width is also ideal for a 6 course oud : 37 mm - 55 mm .
Therefor, Sukkar's is not the ideal neck for the typical Syrian oud he sells, but I do understand him . Inserting a 100 mm steel nail or screw in a
20-22 mm neck is a real hazard !
I don't know what about Iraqi ouds' necks . I think they're a bit wider .
Yours indeed
Alfaraby
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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1865
Registered: 7-25-2009
Location: San Francisco, California
Member Is Offline
Mood: m'Oudy
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Alfaraby, that's a GREAT set of photos. Veritable intel!
The thickness of the neck is of course a personal preference, and a completely separate issue from the neck adjustment mechanism.
Personally I prefer a thinner neck, but if this neck is the same as on the model 1 (and it looks identical), it doesn't seem like shaving through the
veneer that covers it is a good idea. Or would you just shave away and deal with refinishing it? I don't have a problem playing it the way it is,
we're talking about a couple millimeters, but I'm not afraid of a little woodwork, either. Hmmm.
As to the metal rods, the fact that your luthier was surprised says it all: it's not visible or the least bit noticeable. I can just see the
look on his face as the butterfly nut drops into the bowl!  It could also
make for an interesting dialogue at a metal detector security checkpoint, like the guy who doesn't know he has a plate in his head. 
What it adds in value is considerable. I have adjusted that neck several times and I wouldn't want to be stuck with ONE MORE immobile one, there are
a couple of oud necks I curse every day as it is, and that's enough. Whatever people feel about "Steel" in the "Ud", it's up to the player to decide
what he prefers: all wood and periodic "neck jobs", or some hidden metal, and "no worries mate". I don't believe in things that change the character
of the oud, but on this one, you know my preference.
One more detail. Don't forget that in my part of the world, luthiers are blessed with a rate of pay that makes the periodic neck job very much of a
dreaded affair! Needing a neck job is a little like having the transmission in your car drop out. Or your wife AND daughter needing a nose job.
Blessed be Sukar's steel rods!
As to the fingerboard, look at the neck on a Model 212. That sure looks like a separate fingerboard, doesn't it? I assumed the Model 1 also had a
separate fingerboard piece within the alternating color edging. Apparently not.
Too bad you don't have any pictures of the rest of the mechanism. There's still the mystery of the little rod embedded into the neck at a right angle
to the length, about 2.5 cm from the joint, all Sukars have it. See it on the 212 neck? No idea what it's for.
The butterfly nut probably screws onto the central lengthwise rod. The two lateral rods probably fit into holes in the end-plate, and the neck is
probably free to rock a little bit. But what does it rest against? The way he does the joint is masterful, as there isn't the slightest sense of a gap
on the figerboard. I wonder if you can unscrew the butterfy nut and remove the neck altogether! Maybe the next time I work on it and remove the
strings, I'll give it a try. Maybe we'll get to take a look [sound of trumpets!] inside Sukar's Patent.
Thanks again, dear Alfaraby!
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