Jason
Oud Junkie
Posts: 734
Registered: 9-17-2005
Location: Louisville, KY
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Mood: Loving my oud
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Need a little advice about Sukar oud
My Sukar oud seems to be developing a few issues. While this isn't my main oud I'd still like to get it taken care of. This oud has had problems
before... I forget the particulars but I believe it was damaged in shipping to the original owner. Jameel did a wonderful job fixing it a number of
years ago.
Problem 1) The action has become unplayable. As a large Arabic oud the action has always been what I would call medium-high but something has gone
wrong over the last year or two. I do have the wingnut hand-tightened all the way but it doesn't seem to help. The strings are actually extremely
far off of the face even before they meet the neck joint. What's the usual course of action in fixing this? It would seem as though a new set of
holes could be drilled lower on the bridge.
Problem 2) One of the things Jameel did was reinforce the top. It's a three piece top and the pieces seem to be separating at the seams as well as at
the extended fingerboard. Jameel installed butterfly joints to hold them together and I assume that's what is keeping it from getting any worse. I
just worry that the splitting will continue.
I have considered looking for someone to build a new face for the oud with a new bridge. Any idea on what something like this would cost? I really
like the sound of this oud when it's in good health but it's not doing me much good right now.
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Jason
Oud Junkie
Posts: 734
Registered: 9-17-2005
Location: Louisville, KY
Member Is Offline
Mood: Loving my oud
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Any idea on this one?
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Alfaraby
Oud Junkie
Posts: 796
Registered: 9-18-2009
Location: Holy Land
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Ship it back to Sukkar's factory in Aleppo/Syria, for an over-whole maintenance, including replacing the soundboard. This would cost more shipping
than work, so if you have someone going to Syria, that would be fine & the work won't exceed a hundred or so $ . This would be cheaper than
replacing the soundboard in the US, isn't it so ?
Good Luck
Yours indeed
Alfaraby
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Jason
Oud Junkie
Posts: 734
Registered: 9-17-2005
Location: Louisville, KY
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Mood: Loving my oud
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Unless things have changed with the trade embargo I don't think I could ship directly to Syria and receive a package from there. Unfortunately, I
don't have any contacts there to transport the oud.
Obviously, there aren't many people in the USA who would be qualified to replace the oud top. Jameel, Dr. Oud, and Najarian come to mind, is there
anyone else? I really have no idea how much it would cost because it would need to be custom made and fitted. Maybe one of the builders can chime
in
Also, a neck reset may help the problem. I was leaning towards replacing the top just because it's had issues in the past and seems to be getting
worse as time goes by.
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SamirCanada
Moderator
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Registered: 6-4-2004
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Hey Jason,
good to hear from you again.
sorry I didnt respond to you earlier.
Dont send it back to the factory. it will cost you more in shipping and brokerage fees then it will for a new top in the u.s. which I think would be
300-400$ maybe... but I am not an expert on pricing you know.
Check out my oud blog at http://samirnassifoudluthiery.blogspot.com/2010/08/when-sukar-oud-n...
i documented how I repaired a sukar neck retention mechanism. It could be that your neck retention mechanism is failing like the oud I repaired.
Also, that little separation in the top near the fingerboard is quite normal. It can easily be filled with some ebony. There doesnt seem to be a
structural problem from that. It happens as a result of the drastic changes in humidity (winter vs summer) spruce absorbs more humidity and thus moves
more then the adjacent ebony.
@samiroud Instagram
samiroudmaker@gmail.com
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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1865
Registered: 7-25-2009
Location: San Francisco, California
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Jason, I have to run now, but look up the posts dealing with the neck adjustment mechanism, including photos. Fixing an action that has drifted beyond
the available adjustment range should be pretty simple. It involves removing the wingnut and pulling out the neck on its pins, then re-leveling the
faces where the adjustment is made to extend the range of adjustment, and putting it back together. I plan to do it on one of mine that is still fine
but at the limit of adjustment. Maybe we can do it together". Once you get that solved, the oud will be playable and you might decide the face doesn't
actually need to be rebuilt, except for aesthetic/perfectionist reasons, and if it's playing well, maybe just leave it alone. It does seem like
there's a humidity issue, maybe you can make a bucket humidifier (folded newspapers as a wick in a bucket) to keep a room at steady himidity.
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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1865
Registered: 7-25-2009
Location: San Francisco, California
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As I look at the the photos it seems the neck is a bit warped-concave, so when you pull out the neck you might want to level the fingerboard too, you
can take it a couple of millimeters down I think. It doesn't seem to me like the soundboard needs replacing. Is there anything loose or rattling? You
could insert a sliver of spruce in the two "cracks", it's not all that difficult, but if it's not at all audible i'm not sure it's necessary, and
maybe with humidity changes it needs to have that "slack". You need to see if the "cracks" close up at times, because if you wedge in some wood it
might stress it if it closes up e.g. at higher humidity. And BTW it looks like a beautiful & cherishable older Sukar; I wouldn't butcher it. What
model does it say it is, and what date? Hopefully the neck will just pull out without a lot of ungluing horse-play. You can probably do all of the
work on the neck in a couple of evenings.
Take a look at this and related:
http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=10966#pid75...
http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=10966#pid75...
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Jason
Oud Junkie
Posts: 734
Registered: 9-17-2005
Location: Louisville, KY
Member Is Offline
Mood: Loving my oud
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Well this is a very old thread but I finally got around to looking at this oud again. With the strings slack when I apply light pressure to the
pegbox pulling backwards I can see the neck separating from the neck block. Obviously with the neck pulled back the action lowers quite a bit.
At this point I'm not sure if the nail is broken but that is a very good possibility. Is the neck actually glued in or is it only held to the body by
the bolt and flexing rods? Should I try tightening the bolt now that all of the strings are loose?
Thanks
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SamirCanada
Moderator
Posts: 3405
Registered: 6-4-2004
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Hey Jason,
nice to see you around again.
So yeah, now that the strings are loose, try to push down on the top of fingerboard lightly to make the action go down and tighten the bolt while
holding the pressure down on the neck.
not very much glue is used and I have seen the glue they use fail very often. If you want to see if the nail is broken, try to loosen the wing nut
completely and then grap the rod itself and see if you can rotate it by hand or pull it out. the nail breaks when the bolt is overly tightened with
too much pressure. In the repair I did, the guy had snuck in a wrench to tighten it as hard as possible and felt it pop.
@samiroud Instagram
samiroudmaker@gmail.com
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Jason
Oud Junkie
Posts: 734
Registered: 9-17-2005
Location: Louisville, KY
Member Is Offline
Mood: Loving my oud
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Hey Samir hope you're doing well! I check in your blog pretty regularly.
I've never heard anything like a pop and have only hand tightened the nut so I imagine the nail is okay. I'll try to tighten it while applying
pressure when I get home. In the past I believe I've only tried to tighten with the middle strings loose so hopefully having all of the strings loose
will give me a little more wiggle room.
Thanks, I'll report back with how it goes
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