Sam
Oud Junkie
Posts: 375
Registered: 3-23-2009
Location: Cairo - Egypt
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dirt and oil spots on un-polished Oud soundboard
Hello Fillas,
I'm wondering if anybody "somehow" knows how to eliminate this ugly lookin dirt on un-polished soundboards . I've used the spirto but didn't bring
good results. Now I'm using Patrol and it's much better than spirto but still have small oil spots . I've asked some Oud makers but for some odd
reason they were avoiding my question.
Here is the question . How to eliminate dirt and oil spots on un-polish soundboards??
Regards .
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Tarbool59
Oud Maniac
Posts: 50
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Location: France - Lille
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Mood: No brain, no gain !
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Hello Sam,
you can try with a soft rubber, it worked for me. And you should protect the soundboard with egg white or danish oil..
No brain = no gain
"Toute musique qui ne peint rien n'est que du bruit." (d'Alembert)
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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1865
Registered: 7-25-2009
Location: San Francisco, California
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Have you tried Coca Cola?
http://members.tripod.com/barefoot_lass/cola.html
But, seriously. A drafting eraser might help with some, but if a stain has penetrated it's going to be very hard to get it out completely. I can
understand your concern, but it's important to put things in perspective. If your oud is primarily a decoration, it's different, but as a musical
instrument the resonance of the soundboard is most important, and this is an optimized and very delicate structure. A few spots aren't a tragedy. It
is easy to ruin it with the wrong treatment. Most of the professional ouds use minimal coating or none at all. There's an element of trade secret
here, it's delicate, and if you are talking about heroic chemicals, it's not surprising oud makers don't want to discuss it with you.
Excess moisture can hurt the glue and cause shifts and distortion. Oiling can profoundly kill the resonance and cause glue to release. It is the
time-tested, best known, most widely practiced and most effective way to destroy, for instance, a centuries old harpsichord, in just a few minutes.
Coating with a finish that has elasticity, like wipe-ons of the "Danish oil" variety, can likewise seriously dampen the vibration. The thick varnishes
applied on cheap ouds are an expedient way to give crude soundboards a shine that attracts simple folks, and vary in impact. If your oud has a natural
soundboard and is old enough to be stained, it would be a shame to turn it into a shiny lacquered object with all the life and resonance of a shoe.
There are very few coatings that are known to be safe. Freshly prepared shellac is ok, as it dries brittle, applied either using French polish
technique, or as a thin layer with a brush (and taken down with very fine steel-wool). Canned shellac often dries gummy, so should be avoided. Egg
white "distillate" has been discussed at length, and sounds like a good choice too. I have used whole egg white with no harm, though it's not
impervious to all stains. It makes a good primer in helping to sand down the topmost "hairy" wood fiber on a new oud, and shellac can be applied on
top.
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Sam
Oud Junkie
Posts: 375
Registered: 3-23-2009
Location: Cairo - Egypt
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Thanks Tarbool and special thank to fernandraynaud .
Well, Fernand . The climate where I live may not be suitable for polished soundboard due to the exterm drought that causes cracks on soundboards .
lately, I've purchased two ouds with non-polished soundboards and I'v realized that drought has no affect on un-polished soundboards while it has on
the polished ones. So, polishing my Oud's soundboard will be an exception .
I'm lookin forward to find a way to clean the spots on Ouds soundboards and I hope lutheirs on this forum will do us a favour and uncover some of
their trade-secrets 
I'll try the coca cola , Fernand.
You can try patrol . it works good but not the best.
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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1865
Registered: 7-25-2009
Location: San Francisco, California
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Oh, please, don't try the coca cola - was marked . as a joke!
What is "patrol"?
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Sam
Oud Junkie
Posts: 375
Registered: 3-23-2009
Location: Cairo - Egypt
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OMG I USED COCA-COLA AND IT SMASHED THE SOUNDBOARD!!!
haha joking . Well, patrol is the Gas that you use for motors, vehicles ..ect.
" petroleum " to be more scientific . I used petroleum several times and it removed dirt properly but had no good results on yellow spots/ oil spots .
Do not use it for polished soundboards . You can use it for the fingerboard and u won't believe the amazing results. 
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Rafi
Oud Admirer
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Registered: 1-19-2011
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someone said, just rub uncoated soundboard down with extra fine sandpaper...
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Sam
Oud Junkie
Posts: 375
Registered: 3-23-2009
Location: Cairo - Egypt
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Mood: Selling Ouds
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sandpaper may harm the soundboard, anybody had an experience???
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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1865
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Location: San Francisco, California
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I've certainly had some experience with sandpaper. As long as you use a sanding block, you can even thin the soundboard without damage. Some will
sound better thinner. Because it takes time, many luthiers don't bother with a final thinning. And there are areas that should be thinner than others,
though it needs to be done from the underside. If you don't use a sanding block, you can create an uneven surface that will be more suitable for
miniature golf. Those sanding sponges are usable if you handle them carefully. I love the wide variety of grits and materials, sanding sponges have a
Pop Art quality, a way for the manufacturer to turn a few pennies' worth of material into something they can sell for several dollars, so it's like a
candy store of abrasion.
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Sam
Oud Junkie
Posts: 375
Registered: 3-23-2009
Location: Cairo - Egypt
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Hello Fernand ,
Very interesting, You'd make a great Oud maker my friend. I didn't know there were specific areas on soundboard that should be thinner than other
places on the soundboard. My Oud's soundboard is about 2 mm and It's aged German spruce I wouldn't risk using sandpapers I don't know I simply have no
idea on how to use sandpapers. I'd prefer using something quite simple like a liquid or any magical formula that luthiers use to clean the dirt on
soundboards 
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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1865
Registered: 7-25-2009
Location: San Francisco, California
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What I meant is that if you know what you're doing, you can even thin the board a bit. But a very fine sandpaper could be used to clean it. The
uncoated soundboards I've seen are just sandpaper-finished. A board used as a sanding block prevents the golf-course effect I would be more scared to use petrol than some fine sandpaper.
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Sam
Oud Junkie
Posts: 375
Registered: 3-23-2009
Location: Cairo - Egypt
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Mood: Selling Ouds
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Ohh sorry my friend I must have misunderstood . Do you know exactly which areas on the soundboard that should be thinner????
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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1865
Registered: 7-25-2009
Location: San Francisco, California
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I'm not one of those who "knows what he's doing" enough to do anything more than lightly sand the soundboard while coating it. To fully answer your
question, from what I've seen, the area between the bridge and the center sound hole seems thinner on some good ouds. I don't know about under the
bridge, it makes sense that it would be thinner for more resonance, but there's the issue of bracing and structural strength. Before machines were
used for slicing, the thickness probably varied more. On harpsichords, it's a common dilemma: how much time and effort to put into the delicate
thinning under the central area, away from the edges. The best 17th century Italian harpsichords show it's an important way to optimize a soundboard.
These instruments aren't all that different from an oud, they aren't like a 150 kg piano, they are built so resonant and light you can carry one under
your arm. I'd leave it to the luthier preparing the soundboard to do any thinning before it's glued to the bowl. I shouldn't say anything more, all I
was saying is that one need not be afraid of sanding the top and thinning it a little. As an extreme, the soundboard on some Turkish ouds is as thin
as the proverbial "shirt cardboard", and has been known to crack from impact if the oud is shipped under tension!
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Tarbool59
Oud Maniac
Posts: 50
Registered: 6-3-2008
Location: France - Lille
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Mood: No brain, no gain !
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Hi Fernand,
what type of sandpaper is better ? I would like to try on a mid price guitar to reduce the thickness, causing a lack in high frequencies...
regards,
No brain = no gain
"Toute musique qui ne peint rien n'est que du bruit." (d'Alembert)
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Dr. Oud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1370
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Location: Sacramento, CA, USA
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DO NOT SAND THE FACE!!!
Even fine sandpaper will remove some wood, and continued use will eventually make the face too thin to support the string tension and then you've
ruined a good oud. Then there's the problem of uneven sanding. No matter if you use a block or a sponge, the face on the oud is not perfectly flat,
and between the braces it will flex more than above the brace, so it cannot be sanded it evenly. In cases of a cheap oud with a very thick face,
perhaps, but if you don't have experience doing this, DO NOT SAND THE FACE! If your oud has a good sound, sanding may ruin it.
Dusty or dirty areas can be cleaned by rubbing lightly with a soft cloth dampened with denatured alcohol.
Acetone can be used to remove oily spots, also applied sparingly with soft cloth.
DO NOT SAND THE FACE!
OK?
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Sam
Oud Junkie
Posts: 375
Registered: 3-23-2009
Location: Cairo - Egypt
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Mood: Selling Ouds
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Hello Dr,
It has a good sound and I love it . I was concerned that sanding may harm the
soundboard. So I didn't take that decision. I'm currently using petroleum to eliminate the dirty areas. I'll try the Acetone for the oily spots.
Thanks for your advice. I really appreciate your help Doc.
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