Alexi_OUD
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Question about template for ribs and curveature
Question, I am starting to embark in the building my 1st oud. After 32 yrs of playing, I have feeld the need to build my own. I have created the
template for the fitting of the ribs. My question is, "Will all the ribs be the same length, and curveature? Also, how can I find out how to cut the
ribs from tp to bottom? Thanks for any advice.
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Fritz
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Quote: Originally posted by Alexi_OUD  | | Question, I am starting to embark in the building my 1st oud. After 32 yrs of playing, I have feeld the need to build my own. I have created the
template for the fitting of the ribs. My question is, "Will all the ribs be the same length, and curveature? Also, how can I find out how to cut the
ribs from tp to bottom? Thanks for any advice. |
Hi AlexiOud
In order to give a useful answer I´ll do my very best allthough I´m not english-speaking native...
The fact is, that the ribs for an Oud are almost differet from one to the next, there is a possibility to make them all in the same pattern, but this
could only be done when you use no mould !
In the most cases an Oudmaker is using a mould to to prevent the Oud-body from leaving the ideal form. Using a mould is better than using no one...
and if you use one, you have to decide what depth the body is going tio have. Therefore the point on the end-block, where the ribs meet, will be
higher as it would be if making the square-cut nearly like a half of a circle. Almost every Oud has more depth as the half wide of the face, so you
have to keep in mind, that the first ribs (the following after the middle-rib is fixed) are different in curvature and direction. You have to adept
the "more" in height to the ribs... until the last ones will be more near the oroginal face-pattern to match the pattern exactly. The square of the
mould will be more like an "U" than a circle-half. This more at the endblock as at the neckblock. So you have to build the mould by giving the most
height at the widest point of the top.
If you want to make the last ribs wider (like the most turkish Ouds are like) you have to make the endblock higher at the beginning. The point where
the ribs meet is then perhaps one inch higher than the upper End of the block, so you can assemble wider ribs when the last ribs are the next step.
It´s a thing of construction : I realized it as follows :
To give the wanted more height to the body AND leaving the neck-end relatively flat (to make the neck as flat as wanted), I searched for a point on
the main axis, where I shift the endblock and at the same time downing the neckblock. This point on the main axis has to be nearer to the neck block
to get the most shifting at the endblock while turning the whole drawing a bit round this special point. So you will have a "more" in height where it
is wanted, and a flat neck joint in one construction-step !
May be the lenghts of the ribs will be the same, but the curvature of the ribs is always different ... matching the different wideness (diameter) of
the mould. Means, the outer curve is always more curved than the inner curve. This effect will be the more the wider you are away from the middle
rib...
I hope, this answers your question...
Don´t hesitate to ask, if not understanding what I mean...
Best wishes for creating and making your own Oud !!!
Fritz
Music is the food for the soul
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jdowning
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You should also check out the various oud making projects on the 'Projects Forum' for detailed information on how to make the molds, precisely join
and fit the ribs etc.
As Fritz mentions the ribs are individually fitted so none will be exactly identical although it is possible to get pretty close for a bowl of
semicircular section. When using a bulkhead style or solid mold it is important to fit the ribs so that they are not only a precise fit to each other
but also conform as closely as possible to the mold profile without any forcing (to minimise any stresses in the completed bowl and avoid 'ballooning'
of the bowl). All this takes practice so make sure you cut some extra rib blanks in case of any mishaps.
Take your time (fitting one rib a day might be a good target for a start)
For more complex shaped bowls where precise rib fitting is more difficult a luthier trick is to fit thin lines or purfling of contrasting woods
between each rib so that any slight irregularities in the joints will be difficult to notice - more work but it also looks good.
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Alexi_OUD
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Thank you so much for the help and advice.. Im actualy not using a mold but just the cut pattern as the book from Mr. Hankey explains.. Thanks again
for your time and response.
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jdowning
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So if you are working from Richard's book and using his free form method to build the bowl you should find his illustrated, detailed, step by step,
description on how to proceed clear enough.
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Alexi_OUD
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Yes, I just wanted to get some more insight and advice on tips and pitfalls to avoid. I will take the advice given.
Thank you
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Fritz
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Location: Northest Germany
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| Quote: Originally posted by Alexi_OUD | Yes, I just wanted to get some more insight and advice on tips and pitfalls to avoid. I will take the advice given.
Thank you |
Hi again Alex
Just one and a half sentence about building without a mould :-)
If you want to build the bowl before having a special pattern of the face and using the result after building the mould to make the outline of the
face, you surely can make the bowl without a mould, using symmetrical ribs with all the same curvature and length.
Using this method you will always have a "flat" oud-bowl... having just a half circle as the square-cut. To make a bowl with more depth you have to
make two more ribs, one for every side, wich are broader than the ribs before, but with the same curve as the others on the side wich will be glued to
the last ribs. Keep in mind not to make the square-cut like an "O"... make a "D" or an "U". Means, the both assembled broader ribs have to be in a
rectangle to the top, not going narrower in an angle.
Planning such an Oud-bowl incluses the special construction of the two blocks... the two more ribs will need a little more place to glue at the
blocks, that makes the blocks bigger... there is the prob ! So you have to make all the other ribs a bit narrower at the neck block for leaving the
place to glue all the ribs in the same wideness to the block.
Always control the pattern after tracing the outline... the bowl will "try" to have another curvature leaving all the humidity after bending the ribs
and glueing them to make the bowl complete... it needs days to make sure the bowl will hold the wanted pattern. Use wooden sticks between the last
ribs in length and wideness to hold the ribs in curvature and measurement until you want to glue the top.
The bracing of the top will do the rest to keep the pattern when making them exactly ending, touching the last ribs. To keep the constructed length I
use a small piece of wood (glued to the top) that goes a bit in a small cutted "pocket" in the endblock to match the middle-line of the face to the
main-middle of the bowl while glueing !
At the point having all the ribs completed (the more you use the more round the bowl will be) you have to take the outline of the face by laying the
completed bowl on the wood the top will be of and trace an outline round the bowl. Ofcourse you must flatten the edges of the last ribs to make an
even surface for the later glueing of the top.
I suggest not to fix your method to the method of others... find your own way to work by searching many infos and come to a result in your own
brain... to use it with your own hands and tools. Don´t hesitate to make your own experience what´s good or not while making an Oud.
Again many luck and progress !
Fritz
Music is the food for the soul
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Alexi_OUD
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Location: San Diego, Ca.
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Excellent Fritz, thank you so very much for the advice. I do have a pattern cut out from a different Oud and I have created the neck and tail block
pieces and afixed them to the stick that holds them together as suggested by the ook by Hankey. Now I need to start on the ribs and I truly
appreciate all the advice and time you have provided.
Have a great NEw Year
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Fritz
Oud Junkie
Posts: 246
Registered: 6-14-2012
Location: Northest Germany
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| Quote: Originally posted by Alexi_OUD | Excellent Fritz, thank you so very much for the advice. I do have a pattern cut out from a different Oud and I have created the neck and tail block
pieces and afixed them to the stick that holds them together as suggested by the ook by Hankey. Now I need to start on the ribs and I truly
appreciate all the advice and time you have provided.
Have a great NEw Year |
Hi again, Alex
Yes... start your Oud-ribs ! When you have a special pattern for the face, make sure not to loose the curvature by holding a template on every rib
when it´s assembled... Make this template of plywood and let it touch the point on the end-block where the ribs meet and on the neckblock... touching
the imaginated middle of all ribs there. Means... let the ribs as long as possible to let them create a sharp point at their end. This point will be
the front end of the template for every rib near the 1st rib... may be the 2nd and 3rd and the 4th... For the next ribs hold the template at every
last rib to match the curvature until you come to the last ribs. Assembling the last ribs has to be done with care... not to leave the pattern the top
is wanted to have. I suggest to make an extra bended piece of wood (about perhaps 3 x 5mm) on the upper end of the last (wider) ribs to give more
surface for glueing the top. It´s like a loudspeaker... having the moveable part assembled very rigid at the edges but leaving the rest of the face
able to move very easily... with the bridge on the top like the coil in the speaker... again a very rigid point... able to give the given impulse
directly to the top... This might be the 1st thing in creating / constructing the moveability of the top with the bracing.
Oh... it´s late... (here)... tomorrow I´ll be on tour with my girl :-)
Have a nice new year, too... ofcourse :-)
Fritz
Music is the food for the soul
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Alexi_OUD
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Location: San Diego, Ca.
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Perfect, thank you Fritz.
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