Lysander
Oud Junkie
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Location: London, UK
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60%-70% humidity
I bought a hygrometer to see how the humidity levels are in my flat. Now, I've had this thing for a couple of weeks and the humidity always seems to
stay within the 60-70% range. Even sometimes with the window open for long periods it rarely goes into the 50-60% range.
Now as far as I understand it, humidity isn't quite as damaging as dryness to an oud [may be wrong] and, living in London I'm hardly ever likely to
see a dry climate. However, does humidity in this range mean that I should invest in a dehumidifier or will it be OK?
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Brian Prunka
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60% is okay, 70% is probably not too bad but I would consider running a dehumidifier from time to time. The main dangers to the oud are (1) low
humidity, which will dry out the wood and cause cracks (2) high temperatures, which will soften the glue holding it together.
I don't think you are likely to see negative effects from high humidity until you get to about 80%.
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Lysander
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OK great, thank you. I know 50% is optimum and I haven't hit this yet, more like 55%. I think 60-70 will be all right, so thank you. My main concern
is the humidity going below 30% but this never seems to happen in this city.
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majnuunNavid
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Hey Brian,
What are the possible effects of high humidity? you know I live in Vancouver.... it's frequently above 80% here.
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DoggerelPundit
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One thing you can do is to drop by a violin shop—one that is focused on high-end instruments—and discuss the problem with them. Not only will they
likely know the instrument-vs-humidity problems in your area, but will likely have accurate information on the in-case devices used to help with
humidity and dryness.
Here are two approaches I use, based on such conversations...
Humidifiers, for excess dryness (usually in the winter months)
http://oasishumidifiers.com/index.html
Drying packets, for excess humidity (usually in the summer months)
http://www.theruststore.com/Desi-Pak-C31.aspx
Of course, those little drying packets are everywhere, especially packed with retail electronic gear. All you have to do is "zero" them by baking for
a half hour or so at 150 degrees (no, the microwave will not work for this).
Also recommended are in-the-case hygrometers such as these...
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0... It wouldn't do to use too many packets (more than one, actually) and wind up drying your instrument to the cracking point.
As I think Brian P. has said before in other posts, be sensitive to how hard or easy it is to turn your tuning pegs. Excessive humidity will bind
them; excessive dryness will cause them to begin slipping. The scariest humidity scenario is when it causes your pegbox wood to swell to the point of
cracking against the immovable hardwood of the pegs. Then, it's off to the luthier for expensive repairs!
-Stephen
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Brian Prunka
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Excellent advice by Stephen, nothing more to add!
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Lysander
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Yep, I'm looking to get myself some of those packets over the next few days. Especially over the Autumn and Winter months I'm expecting humidity to
rise... quite a few buying options so I'll work out what's best.
I'll keep some larger packets in the room, and most likely keep the oud in its soft case over Winter with a small packet inside. Would keep it on
display but I'm worried about the low temperature in my flat when I'm not there.
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DoggerelPundit
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Lysander,
I'm not sure packets are the way to go for a full room. The clay and/or silica gel used to make them has its limits. Plus, you will have to bake them
occasionally, when they get "full." Perhaps a room dehumidifier would be a better choice.
If you just have to use silica gel for a large scale operation, you can get it in bulk—in one or two pound packages—at craft stores that supply
the folks who make dried flower arrangements. Far cheaper than packets, but you'll still have to bake it now and again.
Are you sure your room humidity is higher in winter? If you must heat your rooms in the winter months, actually it is likely to be lower, regardless
of the state of the air outside.
Also of concern should be the range of temperature if your place grows cold when you are not there. The wood in ouds is always "moving" in response to
temp and humidity. The trick is to keep steady on as near 70 degrees and 50% as you can manage.
And finally m'lud, temp-wise there's almost no separation between the oud in a soft case and the oud on display. Even a good hard case will give you
only about 2 hours before the temps are equal. That window shrinks as temps rise or fall.
-Stephen
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Brian Prunka
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Quote: Originally posted by DoggerelPundit  | Lysander,
Are you sure your room humidity is higher in winter? If you must heat your rooms in the winter months, actually it is likely to be lower, regardless
of the state of the air outside.
Also of concern should be the range of temperature if your place grows cold when you are not there. The wood in ouds is always "moving" in response to
temp and humidity. The trick is to keep steady on as near 70 degrees and 50% as you can manage.
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This is what I was about to say. Usually the relative humidity in winter is low, sometimes low enough to crack the wood.
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And finally m'lud, temp-wise there's almost no separation between the oud in a soft case and the oud on display. Even a good hard case will give you
only about 2 hours before the temps are equal. That window shrinks as temps rise or fall.
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This is true, but two points:
1- two hours actually is a helpful buffer, rather than equalizing temperatures in 2 seconds. Depends on the case, but a well-padded soft case does
help buffer against rapid temperature changes.
2- even a soft case helps keep moisture inside the case and instrument. In my experience, an oud in a soft case is less likely to have problems in
low humidity when kept in its case.
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spyros mesogeia
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I keep my instruments ALL year at 45% humidity and 20-24 degrees of Celsius
ALways tunned,always vibrating ,always pleased....
Winter Hudidifier,Rest of the year Dehumidifier IF is needed...
Peace
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Lysander
Oud Junkie
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| Quote: Originally posted by DoggerelPundit | Are you sure your room humidity is higher in winter? If you must heat your rooms in the winter months, actually it is likely to be lower, regardless
of the state of the air outside.
Also of concern should be the range of temperature if your place grows cold when you are not there. The wood in ouds is always "moving" in response to
temp and humidity. The trick is to keep steady on as near 70 degrees and 50% as you can manage.
And finally m'lud, temp-wise there's almost no separation between the oud in a soft case and the oud on display. Even a good hard case will give you
only about 2 hours before the temps are equal. That window shrinks as temps rise or fall.
-Stephen |
Well, London is a humid city, and the humidity goes up in Winter. We get a lot more condensation on the windows at night. So much so that in the very
cold months it runs down the windows and collects on the window sill in a small puddle.
Now, if we turn the radiator on the humidity will go down. But it will go up overnight when it is off. So I think that I will have to do some kind of
remedial action with some silica or something if the humidity starts creeping above 80%.
If I keep the oud in the soft case it make guard it a little from the rapid temp changes, but then it may be more humid in the case. Maybe I should
put a small packet of silica gel in there then? Is this a good compromise?
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Antoine
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After few years playing the Oud i can say that 60 - 70% of humidity is a lot. I notice that it change completely the sound even.
I recommend you to buy dehumidifier, so you enjoy the Oud without any fears.
45% is perfect.
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Lysander
Oud Junkie
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Due to the advice in this thread I ended up buying a humidifier. A good one too, it reduced the humidity by 10-15% in one hour.
I was going to make a new thread but I will keep to this one. What is the best temperature for oud? Maximum and min? Since it will get cold round here
soon....
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Fritz
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One thing about a very negative effect of what´s bad with high humidity. If the Oud (ore any other instrument) is coming with a finish made of
shellaque, the finish will become foggy, misty, and perhaps the hardness will be less... if leaved in an area with too high humidity. It might be
about 75 % - 85 %, when the shellaque begins to absorbe the humidity in the air...
Warm air is absorbing more wetness, cool air isn´t. So have a look on the place where to display the Oud. Keeping in a cooler area keeps the Oud away
from higher humidity... and keep in mind, that once the shellaque-finish has become misty, there is no way to make she finish clear again and let it
shine as it has before... you have to give the instrument a new finish... what never could be good for an old instrument.
It depends on the humidity in the workshop where the Oud has been built, if it could stand the effects of changing or higher wetness in the air.
Regards...
Fritz
Music is the food for the soul
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