Luttgutt
Oud Junkie
Posts: 578
Registered: 1-10-2009
Location: Norway
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Higher fixed-bride!?
Hi every one!
I am in the "experimenting" corner these days. And want to have a higher distance between the strings and the sound board of the oud. (NOT the
action)
Per today, the distance from the sound board to the string holes on the bridge is 10mm (on the particular oud in hand).
But I want to raise it to 13 or 14mm maybe.
P.S. this will NOT change the action, since I can readjust the hight thanks to the Sukar system.
p.s. not possible to drill new higher holes. No place for that!
My question is this:
Is there a way of doing that WITHOUT changing the bridge?
Is it possible to build it up by glueing an over part? would that take the pressur?
Thanks
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Hatem_Afandi
Oud Junkie
Posts: 414
Registered: 2-26-2005
Location: TX
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How about trying to "re-string" the instrument "over the bridge". In other words, you can extend the strings such that they will enter the bridge
holes from the pegbox side, exit towards the RHS of the oud, then turn them around the top of the bridge to hook up in the pegs?
In other words, do the stringing on the reverse direction!
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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
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Location: San Francisco, California
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The stress on the bridge is going to be different with the "over the top" stringing. No idea if it's enough to risk pulling the bridge off. It might
cause a change in the normal "spooning" of the soundboard that occurs over time.
One should be able to pick up several millimeters with stringing over the bridge. If you REALLY need more, I can imagine adding a "saddle" on top of
the bridge. You can buy a bone saddle at a guitar-shop, cut it to size with a file and/or small saw or a Dremel, make a groove in the top of the
bridge with a file or Dremel, and then string over the back as per Hatem's suggestion. There are also pickups that are shaped so you could place one
on top instead of a simple saddle, or under a bone saddle, and kill many birds with one stone. There's a coaxial cable that acts as a piezo transducer
that people mount under a saddle.
http://liutaiomottola.com/PrevPubs/Piezo/CoaxTransducer.htm
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Luttgutt
Oud Junkie
Posts: 578
Registered: 1-10-2009
Location: Norway
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Quote: Originally posted by fernandraynaud  | The stress on the bridge is going to be different with the "over the top" stringing.
One should be able to pick up several millimeters with stringing over the bridge.
and then string over the back as per Hatem's suggestion.
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fernandraynaud, I have to admit I donn't understand what you mean  
First you say: "over the top" stringing is bad idea.
Then you say: One should be able to pick up several millimeters with stringing over the bridge.
ANY DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO!?
Then you say: and then string over the back as per Hatem's suggestion.
But you know that I already did what Hatem is suggesting, and the result was that the bridge started to go off!!
Can you please explain to me?
Thanks a lot in advance : )
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Hatem_Afandi
Oud Junkie
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Luttgutt,
Please accept my profound apologies for a suggestion that caused trouble!!!!!!!!
Best regards,
Hatem
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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1865
Registered: 7-25-2009
Location: San Francisco, California
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Luttgutt,
What I was saying was that "The stress on the bridge is going to be different with the "over the top" stringing. No idea if
it's enough to risk pulling the bridge off. "
In other words yes it's a way to get more clearance, but with a risk. Assuming the risk is manageable, I was moving forward with the idea of adding a
saddle.
You say: "But you know that I already did what Hatem is suggesting, and the result was that the bridge started to go
off!!"
Sorry but where am I supposed to know that from?
Was THIS the oud that you were having a slight separation on the bridge with? Have you had in fact already determined that it WAS enough to start to
pull the bridge off on one of your sukars? If I did remember, could I know what oud it was on?
I think it's unreasonable for anyone here to assume that the other members can keep track of how many ouds we have and what is happening on each one
of them. Sorry, but I think each question must be as much as possible self-contained to avoid such misunderstandings. Was the answer to my implied
question that "yes, it CAN pull the bridge off"? Did the bridge actually come off? Or was it just where you could slip paper in? That could be the
"spooning" I mentioned, the soundboard changing shape, maybe not a real separation?
Of course knowing that, you would probably neither "overstring" nor add a saddle AND "overstring". Same forces on the bridge, with or without a
saddle.
In this case no harm done. Hatem also had no way of knowing/remembering at all!
Then the next issue is whether raising the bridge by any means is going to twist the soundboard or unglue the base. You could imagine driving
small dowels into holes drilled in the bridge top, and add a second "floor" to your bridge. You could then make new holes for strings in the second
"floor" bridge.
I don't have the mechanical engineering skills to tell you exactly, but gut instinct says that as you raise that bridge you are adding some of the
same kind of forces as you got when stringing over the top. When the bridge is low and you string normally, all the pull is "shear" on the glue joint.
Most glues are reasonably resistant to shear (except that modern "titebond" type resin glues "creep" on shear, then fail). As you raise the bridge
height, you create a lever that will amplify the forces, curve the soundboard, and can more easily break the glue joint. You can easily imagine this.
If the bridge is 2 cm tall, it's hard to imagine pulling on it causing damage. But if it's 30 cm tall, just for imagination's sake, we can visualize
that it becomes much easier to break it away from the soundboard. Yes?
I would say there's a limit to how much height you want to try adding. Do you really need so much height? One of the professional oud builders can
better advise you. All in all it sounds like you are going to have to reinforce that bridge glue joint, so you may as well start by ordering a higher
bridge from the maker, he can best advise what is reasonable. Besides, on the other end, the neck adjustment on a Sukar is not infinite anyway.
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Luttgutt
Oud Junkie
Posts: 578
Registered: 1-10-2009
Location: Norway
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Dear Hatem!
It is NOT your fault at all! I had already tried the stringing over the top to add hight before. So don't feel bad! http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=10378
Thanks for your answer anyway, Hatem : )
My best regards 
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Luttgutt
Oud Junkie
Posts: 578
Registered: 1-10-2009
Location: Norway
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Mood: Curious
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Dear fernandraynaud!
Thanks again and again for your answers and support!
Sorrrry! Of course it was stupied of me to assume that you knew/remember it is the same oud I am talking about. It was not premaditated
So, yes it is the same one.
http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=10378
Now: The stringing over the top in itself might not be so dangerous (I was stringen not only over the top of the bridge, but over the top of the mic
in addition!! So that gave me 9 additional mm!!!! Too much, I know. I just wanted to TRY.
But now I am determend to add hight (I LOOOVED the result).
But I want to add 3mm ONLY. And that should be less risky.
Also, the problem was two sided:
1-overstringing adds the pressor.
2- higher bridge adds pressor.
And I did both at the SAME time!!
Now I ONLY want higher bridge, and not SOO high. So I am håping that would work.
And I am of course hoping that some Luthier her can help me.
Too bad no Luthier has answered 
But needless to say, I am VERY glad for the answers I got from you and Hatem.
Yours
Geko
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