Fernando of Sor
Oud Addict
Posts: 29
Registered: 10-23-2011
Location: London, UK
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Mood: Out of Tune
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Pegs - Interchangable?
I have an Ali Khalifeh and Sons Oud, which I just bought secondhand. It had quite a few issues, varnish had found it's way onto the end of the
fingerboard, the nut wasn't cut properly, the spacing and relative level of the string holes in the bridge was uneven etc etc Nothing too major, and I
adjusted what needed adjusting.
The thing that has me stumped is the pegbox. The pegs are exiting the far side of the pegbox at a variety of levels, one barely enters the hole,
making that string extremely difficult to tune. As far as I'm aware the guy I bought it off had it from new, but I don't know if he changed the pegs,
so I'm not blaming Ali khalifeh & Sons, but what I need is a solution.
Are the peg reaming/shaving tools easy to use? Or is this a job for a professional? If yes, would it be better to take it to a violin/cello repairer
than a guitar Luthier?
Also are violin/viola pegs appropriate as a replacement ?
Regarding the Ali Khalifeh and Sons Oud itself, despite a few odd 'quality control' issues, I really love the sound of it, and am very happy with it.
Any advice on this would be very welcome
Thanks - Mark
By the way, sorry for so many posts on similar issues, I have been checking the forum using search, but often find conflicting advice/ many different
answers for same question. I'm very keen to get my Oud to a point where it actually becomes properly playable. Cheers - Mark
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Brian Prunka
Oud Junkie
Posts: 2957
Registered: 1-30-2004
Location: Brooklyn, NY
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Mood: Stringish
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Violin pegs are likely too small to be used as replacements. Viola pegs would be a better choice.
Generally speaking, the pegs are not interchangeable and may not fit well in different holes in the pegbox. Perhaps yours were moved by the previous
owner, which could contribute to tuning problems.
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Fernando of Sor
Oud Addict
Posts: 29
Registered: 10-23-2011
Location: London, UK
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Mood: Out of Tune
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Yes, I'm thinking about getting Ebony Viola pegs and seeing if that helps, I've got a terrible feeling that this isn't going to be resolved without
the intervention of a luthier/violin repair workshop. The pegs are really all over the place. One in particular (5th string) barely enters the hole, I
did try swapping some around when restringing, but none of them seemed to fit. Am going to try sanding the peg down to at least get it into the hole
properly. The current pegs do seem a little rough in terms of finish. The word cheap springs to mind. But, it's a budget Oud, so that's fair enougth.
Thanks - Mark
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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1865
Registered: 7-25-2009
Location: San Francisco, California
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Mood: m'Oudy
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Sanding is just a waste of time. You likely won't like the cost of the professional "intervention". I'd suggest doing it clean, replace all 12. I
found both a good adjustable shaver and 30:1 spiral reamer for under $80 on ebay. The Chinese sell sets with fixed shavers for even less. In truth the
adjustability is mostly a nuisance if you're decided on taper. Violin pegs are too small. Viola pegs a bit fat and short. Dov Schmidt sells oud pegs
now in rosewood and ebony for about $1 each as I recall, with or without teat. They look longer than viola pegs. You will end up cutting them after
fitting them. You want the pegs to decrease in length as you move away from the nut.
Talk to him about taper, see how much he knows. Original oud pegs are often 15:1, and truly sloppy, I think you're better off going standard
violin/viola 30:1. It's not that hard. Just practice on some scrap first, then work on one at a time, they are not interchangeable. Work slowly, don't
over-ream, the pegbox is often a soft wood, next thing you know you'll be looking for double-bass pegs
... or making inserts ;-)
Shaving is a chore, both rosewood and ebony are very hard. See if the pegs aren't tapered pretty close to begin with, again start by corresponding
with Dov. I have not used his oud pegs yet, I suggested he get them. I looked over his figures and it looked like they were indeed 30:1 but whatever
they are, that's what you should probably conform to, and get the shaver and reamer to match so you don't wear out your hand shaving the buggers. They
always seem to be just a little off, so you don't get complacent. Rosewood is generally considered better, as ebony wears the pegbox down faster, but
a slightly softer wood yet is said to be ideal, good luck finding ready made oud pegs in the dream peg wood. Given a small forest and a basement full
of tools you could always make your own from scratch, John can explain how. Anyway, let us know what develops with Dov. I was going to get a set or
two from him, you get to be the guinea pig.
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Fernando of Sor
Oud Addict
Posts: 29
Registered: 10-23-2011
Location: London, UK
Member Is Offline
Mood: Out of Tune
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Dov Schmidt
Hi Fernandraynaud, yes I'm guessing that for the price of having it done, I could buy the tools, and pegs, and do it myself. It would be a good thing
to learn, as I think I'm going to be playing Oud from here on in. Had a look at the Dov-Music website, and can't believe how cheap it is. They do
Ebony, Rosewood and Walnut peg sets (12) for $15. Regarding Taper, I'm going to do a bit or research about this as I'm sure it's important, but have
noted your advice. I need to check my Oud and do some measurements regarding peg length etc. Am suffering a little from info overload at the moment,
so need to process all the advice from various places. I'll e-mail Dov once I am a bit more knowledgeable, and able to understand his advice. I'm sure
I'll get them from him though, even with international postage it would still be cheap, and more importantly he comes recommended.
Many Thanks - Mark
By the way, do you have a link/name for the reamer/shaver you got from ebay?
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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1865
Registered: 7-25-2009
Location: San Francisco, California
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Mood: m'Oudy
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Shaping oud pegs
Sorry, I missed your question back then, Mark. I'm no expert on the subject, but I got a reamer with spiral blades and a 30:1 standard viola taper.
A good quality reamer is here for $38
http://www.metmusic.com/tools/reamers/5063/violin-viola-peg-reamer-...
And for $10 more they offer a spiral bladed one, though straight is usable.
The best price on the Juzek adjustable shaver I got is here, $55
http://www.metmusic.com/tools/peg-shavers/5066/violin-viola-peg-sha...
These are not as easy to use as one might think. The best advice is not to change the factory (taper) adjustment unless you have to. The Chinese sell
pencil sharpener type shavers for less, but I doubt it's worth saving money on a tool where the quality of the steel matters.
I talked to Dov Schmidt yesterday, and he doesn't know much about different peg tapers, but he says his oud pegs work with standard violin/viola
reamers and shavers, so that says they should be 30:1. He says the 8-10mm option (as opposed to the 7-9) is by far most popular. It's good there are
12 pegs in a set, one to practice on ;-) . Even if you lose your temper you can glue it back together and for decoration attach it to the oud in the
last hole with chewing gum  )
All joking aside, I had one old peg on an Egyptian MOP that shattered, and I glued it back together with superglue, expecting to replace it within
days, and instead it has lasted years under stress, I don't even remember which one it was now.
There are useful discussions on shaping pegs if you google Juzek Peg Shaver, like here:
http://www.fiddlehangout.com/archive/17586
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