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tsugumi
Oud Junkie
Posts: 224
Registered: 7-29-2004
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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Oud that doesn't arrive from epalmyra.
Hello,
I bought oud from epalmyra in eBay.
The oud has not arrived though passes two months or more.
I finished paying with PayPal on August 20.
I E-mailed epalmyra this situation.
He has replied as waiting a little more.
I exchanged E-mail several times with him until now.
He said in September that he would send oud of second.
He has replied on September 27 that oud of second was sent by air.
Oud has not arrived yet.
Is there a similar experienced person?
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Greg
Administrator
Posts: 929
Registered: 7-22-2004
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Member Is Offline
Mood: Serene
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Dear Mitsugu San,
You have been very unlucky with your oud purchases in recent times and I am very sad to hear of this latest problem.
I suggest that you put in an immediate claim with Paypal. You have been very patient, but I do not think you should delay any longer.
Sincerely,
Greg
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tsugumi
Oud Junkie
Posts: 224
Registered: 7-29-2004
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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Hi Greg San,
Thank you for advice and the opinion.
Of course, I reported on this matter to PayPal.
However, the complaint did not arrive at the dispute by the thing within 45 days.
It might have been his aim.
If possible, I want him to repay it.
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MatthewW
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1031
Registered: 11-5-2006
Location: right here
Member Is Offline
Mood: Al Salam
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Palmyrami/Epalmyra
Hello Tsugumi-
Quite a few members have had less than satisfactory experiences with this dealer. They were also known by the name of Palmyrami/Palmrami but same
people and apparently same problems. I once bought one of those Sukkar fiber cases from them, on ebay. it took over two months for the case to finally
arrive, and only after I took the issue up with Paypal and made a claim against them ( I didn't like the quality of the case anyway once it did arrive
and sold it).
I would not buy from them again. Some members may have had good luck with these sellers, but too many have not. here are two threads on them, there
were more threads I think but I can't seem to locate them.
Hope you get things sorted out with them, keep us informed.
http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=7560#pid474...
http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=8161#pid519...
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Samer
Oud Maniac
Posts: 58
Registered: 7-14-2008
Location: MI
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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Dear all,
First of all, the buyer above is located in Japan, I shipped his item twice by international post office, I have also scanned and sent him the receipt
and I will post it here shortly.
He had bought from me in the past and got his item on time but this time it seems like there is a delay in shipping.
Give me the names of the too many unhappy buyers Matteww ? if you were not happy with the case why did not you return it ? I offer full refund for
anyone who likes to return, Many buyers from this forum bought from me and had a very good experience. Also many buyers chose to return their item
and I did give them full refund, some buyers got ouds with a very minor scratch and I did exchange it for them.
Anyways my feedbacks on ebay speaks out for my busniess and my performance as a seller.
Buyers always blame shipping delay or damage on the sellers while sellers have no control over it. Buyers choose cheap shipping option then blame the
delay on buyers, Christopher Walters bought two ouds from me and PAID FOR OVERNIGHT SHIPPING so he got his oud in 24 hours.
the day I got the payment from tsugumi We packed his oud and shipped it to Japan. after one month he claimed that he did not get it, so I shipped him
another ONE at my own cost and sent him the receipt what did I do wrong ? I think %99 of the sellers would do what I did yet he is not happy.
I could have shipped it with DHL or Aramex but cost is over $250 to ship the oud and the buyer was not willing to pay that much.
Anyways, lets allow a week or so if you don’t get your oud I will give you a refund and close this case.
Regards,
Epalmyra
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Christian1095
Oud Junkie
Posts: 454
Registered: 4-29-2008
Location: North Carolina, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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It seems like there are bound to be more problems when you attempt to buy an oud from out of country.
In terms of the seller's responsibility... I expect them to buy insurance and pass that cost along to the buyer OR they need to be willing to eat the
cost of the item... In the case above, is it even possible to insure items sent from the US to Japan via international post? If so, was the package
insured? IF Mitsugu-san chose to have it shipped for the cheapest option and without insurance, I would imagine that he assumes at least part of the
risk.
In terms of Epalmyra's reputation - Here is a post by Cooper where he had a problem with a Qanun that he bought and it was resolved to his
satisfaction... Ie, the damaged qanun was replaced and he was refunded the shipping costs.... HERE
The ability to get a decent Oud in the US without spending a lot of money is pretty limited. I am glad Palmyrami is around since they sell good ouds
at good prices. I think that before we all jump to conclusions and assume that Samer is out to scam people out of their $$$, we need to look at all
the facts.
I would recommend to ANYONE buying an oud through the post to make sure that you have the ability to TRACK THE PACKAGE from start to finish.... I'm
not saying that you should be like me and pay for the overnight shipping, but I got both my ouds in good shape... and if there HAD been a problem, I
would have been able to deal with it quickly.
Chris Walters
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Christian1095
Oud Junkie
Posts: 454
Registered: 4-29-2008
Location: North Carolina, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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Also, if you have a tracking number, it's really hard for the company to lose the package... not so with the post. And if they do, I imagine it's far
easier for the shipper to be paid for the damages.
Chris Walters
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Samer
Oud Maniac
Posts: 58
Registered: 7-14-2008
Location: MI
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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Thanks Chris, the problem with the post office that they don’t offer on line track able number. In other words there is a tracking number but it
can’t be tracked on line, I shipped two ouds so far and the Japanese post office confirmed the numbers but they said it has not got to Japan yet,
that’s what I understood from the buyer.
other method to ship overseas is by DHL or Fedex but cost will be around $300, I don’t think buyers are willing to pay that much, but from now on
I’m thinking not to accept to ship anything but with DHL or Fedex, I have had enough headache.
If you anyone here has tried another shipping method I’m willing to try it.
Many members have bought from me recently and had a pleasant experience, few had problems and I was able to fix their problems in a timely manner.
Regards,
Epalmyra
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tsugumi
Oud Junkie
Posts: 224
Registered: 7-29-2004
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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Oud that breaks and arrived
Hello,
oud arrived but・・・
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tsugumi
Oud Junkie
Posts: 224
Registered: 7-29-2004
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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Oud that breaks and arrived
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tsugumi
Oud Junkie
Posts: 224
Registered: 7-29-2004
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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Oud that breaks and arrived
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tsugumi
Oud Junkie
Posts: 224
Registered: 7-29-2004
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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Oud that breaks and arrived
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tsugumi
Oud Junkie
Posts: 224
Registered: 7-29-2004
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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I contacted the seller.
My email to seller
"Bud news,
It was broken though oud had arrived around 9:00PM last night.
The mail clerk came by as many as three people though the delivery was not done at such time usually.
In one, the delivery member and the other two people were special official in charge.
My oud was judged a suspicious thing in the customhouse and investigated thoroughly according to their explanations.
Because musical instruments were broken, the official in charge said me though it was judged by the customhouse member that it was not a suspicious
thing in that case coming directly to report.
And, they said to me, "You are not good at any compensation for damages of a Japanese post office because it was an accident before it entered Japan
in case of this time".
What should I do?
How could you think about this situation?
Regards,
Mitsugu
P.S. Oud was shipped not by air but by ship."
Regards,
Mitsugu
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tsugumi
Oud Junkie
Posts: 224
Registered: 7-29-2004
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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Reply from seller
The following replies
"Hi,
at least u got the oud and u see I was not lying as you said.
Regarding the damage, I don't think the customs were right.
the oud was very well packed as you saw and I'm sure the customs caused the damage.
You should file a claim to them, I would never ship a damaged oud !!
I think you should file a claim to the post office cause you were the one who caused the damage.
How would you like me to help you to fix this.
Regards,
Epalmyra"
Regards,
Mitsugu
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francis
Oud Junkie
Posts: 428
Registered: 4-8-2008
Location: Saintes , France
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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The same old story.....
It 's a very complex affair to get an oud by shipping, from a country to another one.
Different shipping company , customs.....
I had the same sad story from Swiss to France last summer....
I know how disappointed we are in such a moment, sorry for you, Tsugumi, and good luck for the ending of this story....
Many threads in the forum recently pointed this fact : What must be done to avoid these failures?
At first, the sellers must be informed ( must self inform ) of laws concerning shipping in each country, so they can prevent rather than searching who
failt after time. Selling and shipping musical instruments ( fragile like ouds ) is not a simple job. The only guaranty the seller can offer is his
serious and thorough.
Most of problems and damages wouldn't appear in these lines if everything is well considered before shipping....from a country to neighbour one, from
a side of the the world to the other side....
Sellers , by doing or not this first job, get the reputation they worth....
Samer often seems to not understand why I don't consider him as a sure seller....but his business is frequently present in the forum and not always
for the best....
But he wants to help......may be this will help him first, I want to believe this...
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MatthewW
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1031
Registered: 11-5-2006
Location: right here
Member Is Offline
Mood: Al Salam
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dear Mitsugu San,
it is very sad to hear that your oud arrived damaged, I'm sure we all know how you feel. I hope you are able to have a happy ending to this by
receiving another oud, or a full refund so you can buy one somewhere else if you wish.
I have had 3 ouds shipped to me, from Turkey, from Lebanon, and from Egypt. Each one arrived by air, with no problems. Each oud was packed well and
with the hazards of travel in mind. Though ouds arrive damaged to members from time to time, they actually arrive safely much more often. In many
cases, but not all, if the oud arrives damaged it might be due to bad packing by the shipper.
May I ask some questions please:
it would be interesting if you could tell us how your oud was packed. was it in a good case, well padded box, etc?
When you bought your oud, were you under the impression that it was going to ship by air, or did Epalmyra tell you it was going by sea/ship?
Did you have it insured with them? let us know how things turn out.
regards, MW
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tsugumi
Oud Junkie
Posts: 224
Registered: 7-29-2004
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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Dear MatthewW San
I answer your question.
The cardboard material of thinning was used for packing.
And, a hard case was firmly covered with the packing material (Refer to the photograph).
The side of a hard case had been suppressed with a small cardboard material in
the packed box.
I was not being told by the seller whether the shipment was by air or
by ship.
Because the seller had not said anything about insurance, I had forgotten it.
Regards,
Mitsugu
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Jason
Oud Junkie
Posts: 734
Registered: 9-17-2005
Location: Louisville, KY
Member Is Offline
Mood: Loving my oud
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Just so you know
Insurance is there to protect the SELLER. It is up to the SELLER to ensure that the oud arrives safely.
Also in America the SELLER must file a claim when something is damaged in the mail not the person who receives it.
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MatthewW
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1031
Registered: 11-5-2006
Location: right here
Member Is Offline
Mood: Al Salam
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dear Mitsugu San,
Jason has a good point about the insurance, it will protect the seller as well as help the buyer if a problem arises. The seller should ask the buyer
if he/she would like insurance, especially with a fragile item like the oud, and when it is travelling so far, from USA to Japan. In my opinion the
seller should have made it clear to you that it was coming by sea/ship as well, and not by air, and all without insurance and ask if this is OK with
you.
I am under the impression from what you said this was not done?
From the photos you posted it seems that though the oud was in a case, extra packing material might have helped protect your oud while in transit. I
think many will agree that packing an oud in a case alone sometimes is not enough for shipping, and as an example the ouds I bought came with plenty
of good packing material around the hard case.
I know this hard fiber case you bought, and an oud fits really snugly in the neck/pegbox area exactly where the damage is strongest in your photos.
Extra packing material around this case would have softened any jolt to it in while in transit, assuming this is where the damage occured. It may be a
hard case, but I think long distance shipping requires that extra care and attention.
No one likes to place blame here or there, with this seller or with that person, with customs or the shipping company, for many times we can't be sure
about some facts.
However in your case ( no pun intended) the seller should have asked you if you wanted insurance, that the oud was going by ship, and maybe put extra
packing material around the fiber case.
I notice the seller also said that as soon as you sent your payment, he shipped an oud straight off to you, and then another one after a month:
" ...the day I got the payment from tsugumi We packed his oud and shipped it to Japan. after one month he claimed that he did not get it, so I shipped
him another ONE at my own cost and sent him the receipt..."
This is interesting, for when I was waiting for my hard case which I bought from them via ebay, I was told one was shipped, to please wait for it. It
never came and only after I took the issue up with Paypal they shipped me another one. I have had many things shipped to me from different countries
over many years , and this was the very first time something went missing in the post, and it was a large object as well. So if he shipped you two
ouds, then someone out there has your missing oud and my missing case to put it into.
Perhaps Chris has had good experiences with Epalmyra, and this is great, every member in this forum ought to be able to say the same, that they have
had a postive experience with whomever they dealt with. maybe one day.
Mitsugu San, if you paid with Paypal, can they help you with any claims?
regards, MW
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Greg
Administrator
Posts: 929
Registered: 7-22-2004
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Member Is Offline
Mood: Serene
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Jason
Just so you know
Insurance is there to protect the SELLER. It is up to the SELLER to ensure that the oud arrives safely.
Also in America the SELLER must file a claim when something is damaged in the mail not the person who receives it. |
My experience of international shipping is the opposite of what you are suggesting Jason. In my business, over many years, I have imported millions of
dollars worth of products from Germany, China and the USA. I regularly export products to countries such as New Zealand, Singapore, China, India and
Indonesia.
In the commercial world of import/export, the shipper normally takes no responsibility once the product has left the warehouse. In all my dealings,
the insurance has always been the responsibility of the receiver. Of course, such insurance is regularly organised by the shipper, but usually at the
expense of the receiver.
One should never purchase goods that are to be transported unless the matter of insurance is discussed and agreed upon (in writing), between the
seller and the buyer.
I should add that I have never received a product that was seriously damaged in transit. That is not only due to good luck. It has to do with how
professionally the products are packed.
I have imported several ouds and, in every case, the instrument was shipped in a robust plywood case with internal bracing. It is wise to expect that
goods will be thrown, dropped and possibly stacked under tonnes of other goods. If the packaging can not withstand that sort of treatment, your
precious instrument will be at serious risk.
Note: It would appear that Sukar oud cases have a design flaw that may well have been the cause of this particular breakage. The flaw is discussed
here:
http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=8261#pid532...
Greg
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Josh
Oud Addict
Posts: 32
Registered: 10-7-2008
Location: UK
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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I think commercial import/export insurance may be different. In my experience in the UK its as Jason says, the SELLER has to buy the insurance and
make the claim if it goes wrong NOT the BUYER. It really is down to the seller to pack the goods properly, just a hard case with a bit of soft foam
around it is asking for trouble! I briefly worked at a DHL sorting depot so I know how parcels are 'handled'
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tsugumi
Oud Junkie
Posts: 224
Registered: 7-29-2004
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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The matter of PayPal did not arrive at application because the date for the dispute had passed.
I said that I did the dispute to epalmyra several times in PayPal.
However, epalmyra replied to me several times , saying that "Please wait a little more".
I went to the post office to discuss this matter again the other day.
Mail clerk's answer was not yes but no.
So that he may say"As for this package, insurance was not put by the one that
was called sal mail. "
The mail clerk : at the end. ｢Because it will cost money very much even if it repairs in damage that only that is awful, the re-discussion is
requested. However, it is about 15000 yen($154.54) that the post office pays to you even if becoming a great result because of the discussion.
｣
Regards,
Mitsugu
PS: Stickers etc. of musical instruments or FRAGILE were not pasted to the package at all. There was not an invoice either.
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francis
Oud Junkie
Posts: 428
Registered: 4-8-2008
Location: Saintes , France
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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I ordered last year such a "hard case" from Palmyra and I receipt it broken......You can easily imagine the result if an oud stays in...!!!
I'm still waiting now for the ending of this affair.......so, after the bad experiences we talk about in this thread, we must say that this is a
current attitude from Palmyra.
I wish one day it's possible to trust him, It would be better for everyone and would avoid a lot of unpleasant "surprises"....
Regards and good luck with the ending,
Francis
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SamirCanada
Moderator
Posts: 3405
Registered: 6-4-2004
Member Is Offline
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There is a design flaw perhaps. I have a handful of those cases.
but the only thing that could have done this to the neck is a sledge hammer to the top of the case or a 20 foot drop. The case in the picture looks
fine so... maybe someone took the oud out of the case and did something to it.
Tsugumi: if the case is ok and the oud is broken... then someone from customs or from the shipping company took it out and broke it. what about the
cardboard box the case came in? was it damaged too? That will tell you that the shipping company mishandled the items.
Greg is right, insurance is almost always the responsibility of the importer. unless otherwise discussed. It is the responsibility of the importer to
request a copy of the shipping invoice and insurance proofs before allowing the goods to leave the country.
choosing the slowest and cheapest shipping method is risky especially when covering long distances.
It seems that Palmyrami informed Tsugumi that the safest method would be by air as he had recommended to another customer.
I am not picking sides here at all. I wish people would learn from stories like this and conduct their business wisely. Customers importing goods have
responsibilities and should protect themselves when importing goods.
I hope you find a good solution to this Tsugumi. Good luck.
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Christian1095
Oud Junkie
Posts: 454
Registered: 4-29-2008
Location: North Carolina, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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I have two of the cases and while there is some flex to the case, I would expect to see it cracked not snapped in half. to see a break like that I
think it should have deformed the aluminum strip along the outside of the case at least. Is the case damaged? It looks intact from the picture you
posted... but not enough to be clear....
If not, then I susupect that someone in customs broke the instrument out of cruelty.
Chris Walters
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