whats the intention of your topic?DORADO - 9-27-2011 at 01:14 PM
Sorry em.20,
i would have some comments about this oud please everyone who reads this send to me what you think about it!!alidaood - 9-27-2011 at 04:15 PM
Lots of dead notes. Perhaps the bridge is too low? It sounds like in the 3rd position that the strings have no room to resonate.
I'm guessing though.
SamirCanada - 9-27-2011 at 05:35 PM
bridge could be too low as Ali Daood said.
But it my experience, this problem could be due to an uneven fingerboard. It most likely is not straight all the way through and bends slightly at the
neck joint.
With some work it could perhaps be a nice instruments to learn on though. DORADO - 9-28-2011 at 02:57 AM
here is some pictures to show the problem
Do you think that is a professional oud?
samircanada and alidaood thanks a lot for your answers
If there is no label I would say no.suz_i_dil - 9-28-2011 at 10:08 AM
Hi,
I don't mean to be an expert, but this remind of some problems I got with several of my ouds, both had been solved by Thomas Dauge, in Bordeaux, for a
very reasonnable price:
* first needed the fingerboard to get sanded down, it was unregular
* second was regular but needed to lower action: Thomas glued on it a new fingerboard, very thin at the nut, getting thicker toward trebles.
Maybe a combination of both may solve your problem: sanding the fingerboard, with gluing a new one on it? Microber - 9-28-2011 at 11:59 PM
I have to say that I have seen the oud of Cyril [DORADO] when I met him in a workshop in Germany.
I am neither a specialist, nor a luthier. But I can say that the problem is that the soundboard is convex. And as the fingerboard 'follows' the
soundboard, it's impossible to play high on the fingerboard. This oud is ABSOLUTLY UNPLAYABLE.
Maybe Cyril could provide us pictures which show better the convexity of the soundboard. It is not so evident on the first pictures.
Now, I'll let him say who is the maker of the oud.
Why he chose this particular oud.
And how much he paid for it.
Now, I'll let him say who is the maker of the oud.
Why he chose this particular oud.
And how much he paid for it.
Robert
I wonder!DORADO - 9-29-2011 at 02:56 AM
Thank you suz i dil a famous oud maker saw the oud and said that it is unplayable and there is lot of work !!!
Thank you too robert,i have to say that i can't try to "repair" for many reasons: i bought this oud one month and a half ago and i paid for it
.........1330 EUROS(shipping+ hard case),yes 1330 EUROS .
I discover the seller on this forum and i thought that it seems serious i was in confidence about his name.He sold the oud as a professional one, the
best one,and garanteed by a world famous oud player,he is saad BASHIR and the famous player is omar BASHIR.I trust them and the oud was certificate in
the name of late munir BASHIR by THR MUNIR BASHIR INTERNATIONAL FOUNDATION.I wait all this time to inform and post something because i'll hope there
was a mistake and they will refund me, everyone can dream in this world!!!And also i needed to have some advice about professionals before.I can
telling the story in details if someone is interest.Let me know what i can i do i lost all my money for that and it is difficult to pay for repairing
a new oud and a "professional oud that's not fair
HERE is two others pictures
em.20 - 9-29-2011 at 03:37 AM
Ouch! That sounds bad!
The seller is in this forum and he promised you it is a professional oud? So you paid 1300€ for it and everything you get was a unplayable oud?
Did you buy it directly from the luthier or from a retailer?DORADO - 9-29-2011 at 04:04 AM
YES 'you're right ...I bought it directly from saad bashir director of the munir basir international foundation i don't know the luthier his name is
samir azadzakiya_alali - 9-29-2011 at 04:53 AM
I hope you get your money back DORADO
it is a pitty you spent a big ammount of money for a poor quality oud
all the bestSamirCanada - 9-29-2011 at 04:54 AM
Its to bad about your story Dorado. I am sorry to hear that they dont stand by their product. You should get your money back.
From looking at the pictures there is an obvious dip in the top where it usually should be straight. I dont know how that happened or even if it was a
"design feature" but technically it shouldnt affect the playing if the fingerboard laying on top of it is straight.
Please Dorado tell us, is the fingerboard resting on top of the face or is it inlayed into the top?
From the pictures and videos, it looks like its inlayed into the top and follows the dip of the face which would make it unplayable.
If that is the case, the best option to fix it I think would be to make a new fingerboard and lay it on top of the old one.
Where are you Dorado? maybe there is a luthier who can help you in your area.DORADO - 9-29-2011 at 05:32 AM
I really appreciate your advice zakiya alali and SamirCanada I LIVE IN FRANCE there is some luthier near from my home but one told me that i should
change the neck and the fingerboard because the fingerboard is too thin he can't repair that and it is too expansive for me and i don't want to put
money in this oud i am really disappointed the seller don't want to recognise the facts and until now doesn't want to refund me
SamirCanada, i don't understand everything what you ask me i think it is inlayed sorry for my poor english, i have to tell that it is a floating
bridge and when the luthier change the strings we saw that the floating bridge was fixed into the varnish!!ExtreamTarab - 9-29-2011 at 06:05 AM
Floating bridge fixed into varnish !!! I think that's not floating anymore...
How did you pay ??? If you used PayPal I think there's some kind of grantee, try to look into that in case there was a 3rd party involved in the
transaction. All you have to do is prove the product was defected, the luthier should be able to give you a prove, then they'll refund you and get the
money from the seller...
Hope everything goes well, sorry to hear about this... hamed - 9-29-2011 at 06:17 AM
Sorry to hear about your problem, but i'm sure the maker will fix this for you or send you a new oud. Since they are starting this new venture there
may be some quality issues to work out at first. you should contact the foundation and work it out with them..
hope this helps.em.20 - 9-29-2011 at 06:23 AM
I agree with ExtreamTarab! Paypal for example does a quiet good job in protecting the rights of buyers. A several times I had problems with sellers
and everytime I got my money back from Paypal.
I wrote them an email. Let's wait for the response.suz_i_dil - 9-29-2011 at 07:56 AM
Sure this seller shall arrange you the work to make it playable.
Here is the picture of the oud I was talking about.
The luthier glued a new fingerboard as the old one was inlaid in the soundboard, and action occured to be too high in higher positions.
As you can see there is also a gap, but it is not buzzing at all.
By the way, a fingerboard inlaid in soudboard mean: incrustée dans la table et non collée dessus. Tu as ces 2 méthodes pour une touche sur la
table: soit la coller dessus, soit retirer l'épicéa et faire reposer la touche sur le barrage.
please watch this video,this is the oud ,playing by Omar Bashir.He had test it before shiping to the bayer.
suz_i_dil - 9-29-2011 at 08:02 AM
Correction...I didn't noticed first the whole back part of the oud was going so deep backward.
Maybe that's why a luthier told you you have to change the neck?
Dr.Saad M Bashir - 9-29-2011 at 08:15 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGvIROM8aHo
another version of Al Bashir oud (natural) sound ,playing by Omar Bashir,plz see coments below.
THIS IS THE OUD what you are talking about.
There will be a film about Al Bashir oud in our new website,plz whatch the film to learn more about the history of Al Bashir oud.
it will be useful for amaturs and guitar players and biginers also,like our previus bayer.fadel - 9-29-2011 at 09:02 AM
hi
sorry for that Dorado
Thank you wrote on the subject to learn he wanted to buy oud
salam sabbassi - 9-29-2011 at 10:41 AM
Dorado,
the oud is a living object, it change with the climate and the place.
also the way it was made et etc...plays a role. solide spruce braces should not let the top part of the face to bump.
If you are satisfied about the sound before and after, than the only issue you have is to repaire it easy.
If you can afford the shipping back and forth to me I can do my best fix it for you for free.
there is a way to lower that part if applicaple in just about 2 hours of work.
best regards,
SamirMicrober - 9-29-2011 at 12:44 PM
Sabbassi,
I find it strange to repair a brand new professionnal expensive oud.
RobertMicrober - 9-29-2011 at 12:47 PM
Mr Bashir,
We all know of course that your brother Omar is a fantastic talented player. And your father probably one of the greatest player ever. That's the
reason why Dorado bought you that oud. But that is not the question of today.
Could you give us your opinion about the pictures provided by Dorado where we can see the convexity of the sounboard.
DORADO - 9-29-2011 at 01:39 PM
First of all i want to thanks everyone to consider my problem, i was disappointed and sad about that.
I don't want to debate with Mr Bashir i sent him lots of emails he always told me he never refund me he is not a puma or nike seller.But if i have a
problem with puma shoes i don't go in china i i just go and ask to the seller. That's not to me to contact mr azad the seller is saad bashir!!!!
Nevermind as microber said saad bashir never answer about the facts and about problem of lutherie. That's really strange.
the only thing i know is that i wanted a playable oud that why i paid all that money for this and the oud i received it is not i have no interest to
not keep the oud if it is a professional oud i didn't want a piece of art i just wanted to play on an OUD
Sabassi i really appreciate your offer i will consider it
Cyril.DORADO - 9-29-2011 at 01:51 PM
I just read answers of saad bashir this is really funny!!!!
That's me the problem always i am a beginner but please trust all the persons professionnal and not beginner who try to play on it.beginners don't
mean that we know nothing about music!!!!!!!!
BEST REGARDS TO ALL
Sorry' i just finish to work and i am tired tomorrow my ideas and my english will be more clearGreg - 9-29-2011 at 06:56 PM
please watch this video,this is the oud ,playing by Omar Bashir.He had test it before shiping to the bayer.
Dear Dr Bashir,
You have provided two Youtube links. The first states this is the oud we are discussing in this thread (to test it before shipping). I note that
additional reverb has been added to this clip, but apart from that, it seems to be the same footage as in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGvIROM8aHo which was uploaded on the 27th May. One of the comments states that the oud was then three months
old.
Is this the same oud that was shipped to France and that is being discussed in this thread?
Regards,
Greg DORADO - 9-30-2011 at 03:15 AM
Hello Greg,
the oud i received was made from the 2011/05/01 as you can on the picture i post but i have no proove that it is the same in the video, mine is
supposed to be the first one and when i sent to him the money he posted on this forum that all his ouds production has been sold.If you watch
carrefully his video, omar don't play where i show there is a problem.Nevermind my only goal in this thread is that saad bashir has to realize that in
every sell it may have a problem and if he is a serious seller he should consider his customers.He is supposed to sell professionnal ouds and the only
thing i know i didn't receive a playable oud professional or not.
Best regards
Cyril
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Dr.Saad M Bashir - 9-30-2011 at 05:04 AM
Dear oud Fun,
With all my respect to all here, i think the Al Bashir oud project is much more bigger than to be advertise in forums,that's why we will make double
check about the range of the playing capability of the oud buyer before selling Al Bashir ouds s, as son of Munir Bashir and brother of world famous
oud player Omar Bashir ,we have the full knowledge of the history of this oud and no one else have that better,and this is normal.
After watching the horror playing way of one of our oud buyer (wrong tuning ,wrong playing,wrong strings...) in this forum on Al Bashir oud i feel so
bad to not respect this instrument enough .
Now,we had spent alot of money to build a new website ,where every one can watch the history of Al Bashir oud and way its deference from other
ouds,hope we can set up this site very soon.
My advise for amaturs that you can find other ouds like egyptian or turkish or syrian and maybe a bad copy of Al Bashir oud for cheap price 500-600
euros,which is nearly the price of our oud woods.
Any problems, advise,instraction regarding Al Bashir oud:PLEASE contact our oud maker Mr.Azad Omar (azad omar face book) this guy was working ander
my father direction for more then 15 years.
This is the u2u saad bashir sent to me:"Please send the oud to our oud maker in holland to retune and check the strings ,your tune is horror,the way
of puting the strings are wrong acording to our oud maker massege and plying wel i dont want to comment.
Azad Omar
Fazantenstraat 22.
1121 EV landsmeer.
Nederland
0031651917277
after cseck the oud he will send you back ASAP."
Always and always the same answer i am bad player the tune is awful the strings are bad(it is a luthier who puts new strings aquila) i wanted an
answer about the fingerboard or the soundboard but nothing.
Now he wants i send the oud to the oudmaker i don't want to pay again to send it this instrument for what kind of résults? he doesn't trust me about
anything,i asked him the first day i received the oud to send it back because i wasn't satisfy but no way.If as he said the oud is supposed to be the
best one how can explain the pictures ?why i don't want to keep it? I am not the kind of person to make big stories for nothing .I posted something in
this forum not to talk to saad bashir but to have comments and advice about members and to inform others people.
I DON'T WANT TO BE IN CONFLICT with anybody i don't like that.
Best Regards to all
CyrilDORADO - 9-30-2011 at 06:38 AM
Dear Saad BASHIR,
The whole community could listen to the wonderful playing of your brother Omar. But if we all compare your video with mine we can see, that your
brother plays mainly until the 4th position, a few times until about the 8th position and a very short and light moment in a high position. As you can
see in my video the problems are coming in higher positions beyond the body neck joint. And if you have a look at the picture 2011_08_08_2270_red.jpg
you can realize, that the lowest single bass string which is stopped at the body-neck joint is completely touching the fingerboard up from there until
the end. I assume this comes from the convex soundboard that can be seen in the pictures I posted. Can you please say something about that? about that
extremely "low" action and the curved soundboard?
And please Dr. Bashir post for the community here another video where your brother Omar plays in high position to proof that the instrument was payed
there, is playable over the soundboard and was played by your brother there.
Regards,
Cyril suz_i_dil - 10-2-2011 at 01:21 PM
Mr Saad, with all respect due to your well known family,
I think you really should consider the situation of Cyril.
It is clear those defects don't come from the strings nor from his abilty of playing.
I wish you to develop your business, and there is a large demand for iraki ouds, but this come through a real consideration for your customers em.20 - 10-3-2011 at 02:21 AM
The impression I've got from Saad Bashir isn't unfortunately that good. He seems to be a tradesman who doesn't care a lot of his customers although
his ouds are premium priced.
Like suz_i_dil said, there are problems which Mr. Bashir can't hide. The photos and the videos are proving that. That has nothing to do with tuning,
strings or playing.littleseb - 10-3-2011 at 02:56 AM
em, the bottom line is - you have paid a lot of money for an oud you were expecting it to be of professional standard. there are obviously
costructional faults with the instrument, and you shouldn't be expected to take the oud to a luthier or send it to holland (what's that all about???)
after paying 1300 euros. you've got every right to send the oud back and get a full re-fund. your ability to play has nothing to do with the fact that
they (probably knowingly) sold you something dodgy. it's none of their business whether you play oud like a pro or just hang it on your wall.
did you pay by paypal? if so - put a complaint in asap. and make sure paypal agrees in writing to have the shipping costs re-imbursed as well (i had
problems with it before).
as for the seller: how short-sighted they are! they might have made themselves a quick buck, but will probably in the long run loose a few customes
over this. i for one am in the market for a good new oud, but will stay well clear of the bashir makers after reading this.Microber - 10-3-2011 at 10:40 AM
I can't say better than Suzidil, Little Seb, Em20, Greg and the others.
Mr Bashir,
Please, could you answer the questions.
I think you would like to sell some ouds.
It seems it is your mission : transmit and preserve the identity of the Iraqi oud.
And the only argument you say about the ouds you are selling is : 'it is the best'.
I think that a customer has the right to obtain more from the seller.
Concerning the oud you sold to Cyril, maybe it was correct when your brother tried it.
But now, it is not.
It is not a question of ability of playing, I can assure you.
You have seen the pictures, like all of us.
Nobody can affirm that oud is correct when you see these pictures.
So maybe is there a problem in the making that makes the soundboard becoming convex.
One more time, I ask you to reconsider the situation.
Thank you for Cyrile... and for the many potential customers.DORADO - 10-4-2011 at 01:25 PM
Hello Mr. Saad Bashir,
your website says:
About Al Bashir Oud
(Al Bashir) oud is made according to Omars oud sizes. body size: 37,5 cm wide * 50,5cm long Neck: 19,5. the string length is 58,5
I add here a picture of the oud I got from you that shows that the instrument shows a shorter neck. That does not have the 19.5cm it has less than
18.5. That means that the instrument has a scale of only 55,5 cm and not 58,5 cm as you write. We all know that the oud's neck is 1/3rd of the scale.
This is not the case in the instrument I got from you.
Please explain that here.
Salam to everybody,
First i would like to thanks everyone for your support i was waiting for an answer from saad bashir or why not omar bashir who is supposed to guaranty
the quality of the instrument but as you can see..... nothing.
now it is easy to realize that money is lost!!!!!
the only way i have is to take a lawyer and to see when they will come to France, i will pay my ticket to a concert or each concerts of omar bashir go
on stage ,telling my story to the audience and give the oud to him for testing and playing it on stage.
I will stop to talk about that on this forum but i don't give up the "fight",i hope this thread will be a good example for people who wants to buy al
bashir oud, the professional one!!!!!!!!!!!!
Really really really THANK YOU
Sabassi je crois peut etre que tu parles français et que tu es d'origine marocaine si tu peux m'envoyer ton adresse mail ton offre t 'honnore barak
allahou fiksabbassi - 10-14-2011 at 01:16 PM
Salam,
Bien sure mon amis no problem, mon email est sur mon profile. samir.abbassi@gmail.com
oui je suis marocain d'origine.
