Mike's Oud Forums

Rookie wallhanger rehab

carpenter - 8-30-2005 at 03:21 PM

So far, so good. Got my new neck built, pegs loaded, rose whacked out; excavated the inside of the bowl (all I'm keeping of the old incarnation), about to glue the neck on. It was quite a trip - I removed enough wood to make another bowl, and enough glue/sawdust to stick it together.

I have, on the bowl, what I believe a boat guy would call "tumblehome" - where the radius keeps going beyond 180 degrees, and starts to come around again. Looks like it'll be a chore to slip the braces home nicely. I'm thinking of little blocks, like interrupted linings, at the appropriate places to stop the downward trend there. Any opinions/experience in that regard?

Jameel - 8-30-2005 at 06:50 PM

How about some pics, carpenter?

Mike - 8-30-2005 at 08:08 PM

Welcome to the boards carpenter. I just sent you an email on how to do attachments. I look forward to following your progress on the rehab project.

carpenter - 8-30-2005 at 08:20 PM

Pictures, sure; real soon now. have to have something to see first, other than scraps and big ideas.

As for the Lute book, coming from a violin/European instrument background, it was exciting new territory for me. And then finding out they build oud bowls in the air! What an eye-opener! And such a cool instrument and sound! Gee, I think Im a convert...

I'm enjoying the pictures of Jameel's work. Puts what I do in the shade.

Dr. Oud - 8-31-2005 at 08:07 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by carpenter...I have, on the bowl, what I believe a boat guy would call "tumblehome" - where the radius keeps going beyond 180 degrees, and starts to come around again. Looks like it'll be a chore to slip the braces home nicely. I'm thinking of little blocks, like interrupted linings, at the appropriate places to stop the downward trend there. Any opinions/experience in that regard?

I don't know why you would want to make a bowel that is over 180 deg, it just makes fitting the braces more difficult. While some ouds in the past have been made this way, it's usually only the tail end that actually tumbles over, while the side where braces must fit is shaped straight up. I haven't seen this shape on ouds past 1930, and those were made by some great master builders with generations of experience. You could add some blocks at each brace end to make fitting them possible, I suppose. I don't believe there's any advantage to the tumble over bowel except to showoff how skilled you are, since it is a more difficult shape to build. But this is your first oud, so why challenge yourself before you have some experience with a more conventional shape? I would shape the body down until the sides are at 180deg if I were doing it.

carpenter - 8-31-2005 at 08:44 AM

I'm agreeing on the difficulty, but I inherited the bowl, didn't build it. (This time.) This oud was a wallhanger at a local music store since 1997, a little busted up, neck off-center, way-soft pegs and tapers not matching, etc. Since I got it for zero, I figured it'd be a good making/repair introduction with no Strad anxiety. They were almost ready to stuff it with dirt and plant ivy. There's moments I don't think that would've been a bad idea, but I like a challenge - I will prevail!
The little lining blocks seem like my only option. I'll never know if I don't try. Thanks for the thoughts; your book is invaluable, as is Jameel's building site. In-progress pictures still to come.

A couple of pictures

carpenter - 8-31-2005 at 09:22 AM

Rose and neck - a few uh-ohs, I recommend not looking too hard. I'm fairly pleased with the neck/pegbox; the spline is a great idea. Ready to glue it on today, I hope. I guess that German peghead design is okay for now, maybe I'll find my boxwood and fire up the lathe this winter...

Oopsie

carpenter - 8-31-2005 at 09:24 AM

One picture at a time, evidently. Here's the neck:

Jonathan - 8-31-2005 at 09:42 AM

Was there a label inside the bowl? I am curious who built it. Also, the rose and pegbox look great. Is that your work? Where did you get the rose design?

carpenter - 8-31-2005 at 10:17 AM

Thanks. The rose is 1/8" maple, my work, based on the pretty-much-half that was in the oud, with some interpolation/fudging on the design. I think I came close enough for this one...

Most of a printed label: Ayman Kassem, Oriental Lute Factory, Damascus, Syria; phone # 710177; Mohajrin - Bash Kateb Salamyeh; Date of Fabrication: 1997. That's all the English.

The neck is the last of some nice Oregon walnut, Euro beech spline, ebony pegs. That's about it.

I found some previously invisible .5mm steel pins holding the ribs to the neck block. Found 'em with my nice chisel, too - grrr. Also appears they used those pins to hold the ribs down to a mold for assembly; left the little holes behind. My own Junior Planetarium! Oh, well...

Together at last

carpenter - 8-31-2005 at 03:15 PM

Straight and flat, just the way I like it.

On to the top...

Jay - 8-31-2005 at 03:32 PM

Hey carpenter,

Your new neck, pegbox, & rose look great! Too bad about your chisel's run-in with those pins :( Looking forward to seeing more pics!

Jay

carpenter - 8-31-2005 at 03:56 PM

Thanks! As for the chisel, live and learn, huh? Not the end of the world, just a little bump. Hones my sharpening skills, so to speak.

I have the top (3 pcs) glued up, slipmatched, so there's hope for me yet. A little purfling, a little thicknessing, a little bracing, I'll be pickin' and grinnin'.

The bowl seems to be made of a nice (!) walnut, works wonderfully, and something like willow or cottonwood, works like compressed Kleenex. Next time, I'm building it myself; at least I'll know who to holler at.

Jameel - 8-31-2005 at 05:24 PM

carpenter,

Your work looks very clean and precise, but we need some bigger pics. Can we have some close-up larger shots of the work?

Optimal attachment size

carpenter - 8-31-2005 at 06:24 PM

Sure. What's a good pixel x pixel dimension? .jpgs okay? Mike?

I didn't want to gobble up too much space...might handy to post a size standard for future submissions from anywhere. If I recall, the rose one was 300 pixel wide...opinions?

Mike - 9-1-2005 at 12:20 AM

Great job so far carpenter....yeah...the bigger the better. Just as long as the file is less than 1 MB, you can attach. That would be a huge picture, so you are probably good if you go with 650 to 750 pixels wide...and jpg is perfect. Thanks for sharing your progress with us.
Best,
Mike

Progress, such as it is...

carpenter - 9-9-2005 at 09:16 AM

Been busy scraping out the inside of the bowl - I had thicknesses 5mm - 1mm, so it's been a chore, not done yet, plenty to do otherwise. Here's a before-and-after of the tail inlay, complete with factory-supplied pinholes and chips. (I hate to use filler; I'll figure something out.) It's nice where it's nice, tho'. I'd be ahead time-wise if I'd built my own, but there we are, it's a rehab.

I was reduced to sanding on the outside, but it's coming right along, plenty of factory belt sander tracks that have to disappear. That dark wood is hard! Must be a stainless/walnut alloy. Wish I had some...the light wood remains compressed Kleenex.

Soundhole purfling

carpenter - 9-9-2005 at 09:25 AM

I wanted to do a simple dark-light-dark purfling for the sound hole. I like planing, have some nice planes, but consistent thickness and parallelism was a wee problem. I fixed up this jig - if you look beyond the clamps, it's just a couple of stout sticks holding a scraper above a flat surface. Worked fine, a little rough at first, but adjustable. Thickness adjustment is from the Little Brass Hammer school. (I may be patting myself on the back as a clever guy for something that's common knowledge - if there's a better way, I'd sure like to see it.) For the few times I'll use this, it seems to work; something more machine-shoppy and easily adjustable seems possible.

One more look

carpenter - 9-9-2005 at 09:30 AM

Looks good to me, have to leave a little room for the glue.

Again, if anybody has a better way... artcarp@efn.org for off-the-boards stuff. (I'll show you my newly-finished hurdy-gurdy, if you like.)

Jameel - 9-9-2005 at 11:43 AM

Great techniques, carpenter. Check out photos 31+ here:http://www.oudmaker.com/photoshow.asp for Dincer's tool for the job. I use my spindle sander with a fence for doing thin stuff. A drum sander would be better, but this works for small things.

One more thing...

carpenter - 9-9-2005 at 04:21 PM

Here's my purfling channel cutter, with a test piece. A nice, squeak-fit with the purfling.

I was taken with the Dremel cutter picture in Dr Oud's book - I liked the idea of referencing from the top of the top instead of, with a circle (fly-) cutter, from the top of a drill press table plus a top thickness...but I found myself with my good ol' antique Dremel, which doesn't fit any of the available router bases - no screw-top. This is the result from the Looks Goofy, Works Fine, Costs Nothing Tool Co. For two finish cuts, I saved $90 to upgrade, and it suits me.

I recommend a firm pivot point (not shown) iinto a baseboard. Other than that...1/8" cutter, 1 mm deep. Fine! And there's another pivot point for the soundhole. I'll get on the finish cut real soon now.

Got deep-throat clamps?

carpenter - 9-10-2005 at 01:24 PM

Me neither. Here's go-bars at work, putting in the purfling, with assorted scraps for cauls. (That Dremel router channel-cutter worked great, by the way.) I use 'em a lot; aligning edges for edge-gluing tops, with folding wedges for sideways pressure...pushing stuff down flat I can't reach otherwise.

(Might be old-hat technique to everybody, but it's an option.)

In the Purfling Dep't, it's good to have the grain running the same way when you glue up the strips, and to mark the direction for later planing/scraping - minimizes unsightly tearout.

Jameel - 9-10-2005 at 01:39 PM

I love your go bar deck. Doc O uses one too. I never got around to making one. Now I've got to for the next soundboard. Please keep posting your great pics. I'm loving them.....:airguitar:

carpenter - 9-10-2005 at 03:38 PM

No home is really happy without one. I figure it'd be just the ticket for braces. Seems you can fine-tune the pressure with slightly different lengths and cross-sections. I've got some 1/4" sq. ones for light work; mostly alder, for some reason. I've seen setups using 1/4" fiberglass rods with plastic end caps to stop denting without cauls. That would solve a slight problem - that grain has to be straight! It's astonishing when they blow up in your hand. And annoying.

Good luck; it's simple, and has a thousand uses. (Well, several...)

That went well...

carpenter - 9-10-2005 at 05:48 PM

The tiniest bit of chipping around the purfling; I expect it was the straight router bit. A little trimming to do on the rose edges to match, and not exactly an invisible join on the purfling... But I'm as happy as I'm going to get today.

Dr. Oud - 9-12-2005 at 12:09 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jameel
I love your go bar deck. Doc O uses one too. ...

Actually I have abandonded my go-bar deck and made shelf braces with the scraps. I just couldn't get the control I wanted, then there's a bed to be made for each size face and every various brace crown, etc, etc. I have been using a bar clamp tool and plan to make more so I can clamp more braces at one swell foop. It's very easy to apply precise clamp pressure, cheap to make, and versatile too. Brace Clamp

Say, now

carpenter - 9-12-2005 at 01:25 PM

That's a great idea! (The brace clamp, not "getting rid of the go-bars") Thanks for sharing that - you & Jameel should be National Tool-And-Technique Treasures (and I would hope it's a paying position...) As I haven't stuck my braces in yet, I'm on it. I do enough top edge-gluing that the go-bars for alignment suit me fine there - better the devil you know, and all...but thanks again!

Meanwhile, still scraping and dreaming. The bowl's getting thinner - I can see a little light through the light wood- and more flexible; got the horrible plastic (?) finish off the outside. And made a nice little walnut bridge. One thing at a time, I say.

A week or so work stoppage ahead, darn it; have to go pretend to make some money.

Jameel - 9-12-2005 at 02:34 PM

Love the sock protector covering the pegbox. Great idea. :applause:

Dr. Oud - 9-13-2005 at 03:37 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jameel
Love the sock protector covering the pegbox. Great idea. :applause:

-and the oud stand. If you beef it up you could clamp the neck down for 2-hand ops, I'm gonna make me one!

carpenter - 9-13-2005 at 05:12 PM

Yeah, "holding the work" had always been a bugaboo. I think - too soon old, too late smart - that if that block by the neck were an inch or so fat, a guy could hang a clamp on it.

I used sticky-back felt for padding, but probably leather would prevent rolling so much. (It is nice, tho', using 2 hands once in a while.)

Sock-wise, the thicker and woollier the better. The world is one big scratch-and-dent waiting to happen.

I'm slowly working my way through Dr O's website - it's a goldmine in there! Also Jameel's suggestion of oudmaker.com. Whew!

Dr. Oud - 9-18-2005 at 06:00 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by carpenter
Yeah, "holding the work" had always been a bugaboo. ...

Boy howdy! I can't count how many times I've lost my leg lock on a slippery oud and added to my cost to repair (it's our little secret, ok?). So now...born of necessity, inspired by the carpenter of Eugene, it's my new, improved, fully adjustable, and clampable, Oud Grabber Thingy! Man why didn't I think of this beefore? Oh yea, too late smart, too soon old. Ain't the web grand?

Jameel - 9-18-2005 at 06:09 PM

Nice, Doc O! I'm going to make one right away!

And about time, too!

carpenter - 1-23-2006 at 03:45 PM

A little progress after a life-intrusion work-stoppage. I now have the braces and rose glued in, bridge to come; placing of which caused a little head-scratching. I came up with the attached photo; a string (any old kite string) in one outside bridge hole, up the neck and around a peg, back down, and tied off at the other outside hole of the bridge. Sight the relationship of the strings relating to the neck, mark away, and you're home for gluing up, no iffy centerlines required.

I'd imagine that if the strings at ahe pegbox were positioned at the proper place (like the outside notches of the nut) that this would practically insure not screwing up the bridge placement (good for me, at least - I hate doing things twice). If I'm going horribly wrong here, somebody should speak up soon. Otherwise, it looks good to me.

More as it happens.

Dr. Oud - 1-23-2006 at 04:12 PM

nice! I been fumbling with straight edges, but strings the thing! Nice rose as well...

Elie Riachi - 1-23-2006 at 04:17 PM

Great idea Carpenter. I'm taking note of this idea. One constraint I would add, which you've probably already took into account, and that is making sure that the distance from nut to bridge is the same on both sides. This could be accomplished by making certain that the lengths of each string from where it is tied to bridge to where it contacts the nut are equal. Good job man.

carpenter - 1-23-2006 at 05:01 PM

Thanks to both you and Dr Oud. It seemed to make sense to me, good to know I'm not entirely alone there. I did first take the opportunity to make a pencil mark for the tail end of the bridge perpendicular to the centerline at the (I hope) appropriate place. I'm sure it's plenty good for my puny purposes, but 'measure twice, cut once' is still always good advice. Twice or more...

Also, I whacked the top outline to "close enough," glued up the braces, and then trimmed to suit; block plane and really fine bandsaw blade. No tearing out, less nervous-making than the Stanley knife I had ready...I did back up the tail end with masking tape first, just for a safety belt. Still good, didn't gum things up.

And I'm a big fan of 3M blue tape; also a freshly sharpened scraper. Back to work...

Musa - 1-24-2006 at 04:34 PM

Hi Carpenter,

I bought an oud produced by the same maker as yours. The label says:

Ayman Kassem, Oriental Lute Factory, Damascus, Syria; phone # 710177; Mohajrin - Bash Kateb Salamyeh; Date of Fabrication: 1989.

This is the same as yours, except for the date. The materials that its made of also seems to match yours closely, as does its appearance.

Mine was also a "wallhanger" - the neck was loose, it had cracks, and cheap olivewood pegs that made it impossible to tune. When I told the dealer about the problems and how much it cost me just to make it playable, he refunded the $100 price and let me keep the oud.

I took this oud to an violin luthier, who put in a new walnut neck, ebony violin pegs, fixed the nut, bridge, and cracks, and lowered the string height. He said that the bowl was so much better than the rest of the oud that he suspected that it was made by a different person. Also from the quality of the bowl, he surmised that this maker probably also makes some good quality ouds.

I restrung the oud with La Bella Arabic Oud strings, which tremendously improved the volume and resonance, particularly in the trebles. I would very much suggest that you use quality Arabic strings for this type of oud; the thinner Turkish ones won't give it enough volume and resonance.

The oud now has a suprisingly nice mellow tone, and continues to improve with age and playing. That just goes to show you that this kind of oud can definitely be rescued and rehabed with very good results.

Question: Does anybody know of any good quality ouds made by Ayman Kassem?

Wishing you much success in completing your oud rehab! Hopefully, you can post a sound clip when you're finished.

Salamat,

Musa

carpenter - 1-24-2006 at 05:55 PM

Thanks, Musa, and I'd be interested in what you track down. As an aside, I recall reading that in Germany in the '20s - '30s - when 'Stradivarius' did a whopping amount of work, for a dead guy - that there were towns that did piecework violin making - one family would carve necks, one make rib garlands, one tops, one for final assembly, and so on. Maybe the same thing is going on piecework with okay-grade ouds - I have no idea, just a thought there, makes a kind of economic sense. It sure seemed like a huge difference in attention and craftsmanship between my bowl and neck, say; almost a different person at work. One maker doing one instrument would surely bring the same outlook to the whole, seems to me.

Any other thoughts/observations, anybody? And let me know.

No real progress here - working on an edge-binding cutter...

Dr. Oud - 1-25-2006 at 08:16 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by carpenter... Maybe the same thing is going on piecework with okay-grade ouds - I have no idea, just a thought there, makes a kind of economic sense. It sure seemed like a huge difference in attention and craftsmanship between my bowl and neck, say; almost a different person at work. One maker doing one instrument would surely bring the same outlook to the whole, seems to me.

Any other thoughts/observations, anybody? And let me know...

Outsourcing has been going on for quite some time in the oud world. Karibyan in the later stages of his life had his bowels produced by a european lute factory. The cheap ouds sold as "Egyptian" are made in Pakistan in mass production mode.

Coming right along

carpenter - 1-31-2006 at 02:33 PM

I got the ledge cut for the edge binding - charming, how the most nervous-making parts come last, eh? - and I was a wee bit hesitant about gluing up the strips. One glue joint is about all I can handle confidently; top, strip, strip, rib; four seemed like a bit much to ask of me and keep 'em nice and aligned. Attached, a photo of a likely reduction in panic. I whacked out some 1/2" ply to suit the outline(L & R, no symmetry here), routered out a rabbet, gave 'em a couple good coats of wax, and voila! Tape and hope wins! Looks pretty darn good fit-wise, too, enough spring in the binding to cover any lapses of judgement or accuracy, and there's plenty of those elsewhere to laugh at.

The downside is, the forms have pretty much outlived their one-use usefulness, unless I want to do another oud with a similar outline (not likely). The little hole is for a machinist's clamp, just to firm up one initial end of the strip/glue sandwich, prevent any sliding around there. So I end up with a mere two glue joints to worry about. Hooray!

More as it happens. Again, if I'm headed horribly wrong...well, a little too late this time.

That went well...

carpenter - 2-2-2006 at 08:41 AM

Apologies for the glare. Got the beard laid in this morning, on to the fingerboard. Buying stock in blue tape...

Nut time

carpenter - 2-3-2006 at 12:14 PM

Gettin' it whipped...picture shows my two secret nut weapons. First, a nice hide glue/nut blank/paper/hunk of wood sandwich. Gives me a bigger, clampable handle; a nudge with a blade pops it off, a little glue scraping and away we go.
The files, sometimes called 'feather' files, are Japanese saw sharpening files. Extra skinny on the business end where it counts; one has one 'safe' edge (no teeth), so I can go sideways without going deeper. Works for me, experience helps. The one is perfect for an .025" string.
I was reading the 'specialized tools' discussion, and it reminded me of an Irish session I went to a while ago, fellow had a carbon-fiber fiddle. Cost a small fortune, sounded like a ham can - but he liked it. Plus, you could play underwater!
I like working wood, and I really like the quiet I get when using hand tools. Soon as I get my safety glasses and earmuffs on to use a router or thicknesser, I'm already more tense than concentrated. (Good thing I'm not needing to really produce, huh.) I'll use 'em, but I don't much like things that move faster than I do.

Jameel - 2-3-2006 at 12:20 PM

Looking good, carpenter. I like your nut file setup. When I do nuts, I start the slot first with a fine saw (xacto brand), then file with a nut file (bout the same size as yours). Then to get a larger slot, I widen then out with this tool http://www.wypo.com/prod01.htm. Works great. I also have the oud strung at this point, so I can check the fit as I go, keeping loose tension on the strings so I can lift them from their slot if it needs work. Is it the photo, or is your pick guard really that thick?

carpenter - 2-3-2006 at 01:00 PM

Around 1/32" - must be the cheap camera, or the raking light.

When I win the lottery, I'll get a full set of Stew-Mac's nut files (among other things!), and hope I live long enough to use 'em. I cut a new bone nut for my boy's 7-string electric, and it nearly beat me into an old man. .009" E? Whew! Now, a bass I can live with...

But the oud's coming along! That's what counts. I'm heading for the tru-Oil finish, with a little French polish on the neck; more out of long habit than good sense.

Mike - 2-3-2006 at 01:03 PM

loving this thread Jim....the oud is looking better and better...can't wait to see it finished.

Strings and everything!

carpenter - 2-7-2006 at 04:58 PM

I'm happy! So far it's sounding mostly like I expected; a bit thin, could use a little more bottom end, but I'll wait for the top to tension up a little. There are a few spots cosmetically where the Oud Police would have me down to the station for a chat, but generally it's looking/sounding pretty good, for a baby.

The strings are GHS, .022 & .029 plain, .025, .029, .033 & .040 wound. The tuning suggestion on the package leads me to believe they're Turkish tuning, and - nothing against the Turks, but is there a nice Arab-tuning basic benchmark for string gauge? So far the bridge hasn't flown up and hit me in the face, but I could use a little hand-holding here before I bring 'em up to pitch.

And at risk of sounding like a shill for 3M (but I do admire their blue tape!), I really like their foam-back abrasives, "Superfine" and "Microfine!" (We're more getting into 'burnishing' territory than 'sanding', but that's okay.) Machinist friend tells me the ones that say, "Made in England" are superior; they're gray, "Micro" is green type on the back, "Super" is red. They sure don't seem to load up like other items. Forget just where I got 'em; maybe Woodcraft, here, but they should generally be out there.

Think I'll go admire it some more. Aaah!

Thanks to everybody. Dr O's book and Jameel's website were invaluable. (There may be a scratch-built one in my future, who knows?) And Mike for the forum opportunity, of course.

And we're all storing our leftover Tru-Oil standing on the cap, right?

Jameel - 2-7-2006 at 05:49 PM

Congratulations. It looks great. You could spend more than a few nights researching strings here. But that is definitely a Turkish set. Depending on the scale lenght (what is it, by the way) these might work. But generally the nylons are thicker. .033" for the g and .025" for the c is what I'm using right now (61.5cm scale). Get that sucker up to pitch and let us hear it. The Tru-oil is great, is it not? Yes, I've got my bottles up-side down, but by the next time I use it, it will be shot.

carpenter - 2-7-2006 at 06:33 PM

Some hemming and hawing here converting inches, but it looks like 61.5 cm, or same as. I'll poke around the site, see what The Best Oud Minds of Today think.

Tru-Oil is great, indeed! I initially gave it the brush-and-turpentine treatment, and went back to wiping on. (Plenty of rising grain from knots and woo-hoos, they really soaked up the oil.) I used an old T-shirt (from college, just a handful of rags now), it's reasonably lint-free. There are plenty of places to get real 'lint-free' wipes, I'm thinking of printers' and machinists' supply...I believe I gave it five coats on the bowl. Nice and shiny, but it'll probably glare on the TV - heh.

Now all I have to do is learn some of the repertoire. I'd hate to say I'll just play Irish fiddle tunes on it, but you know I will. At first, anyway, just to get the lay of the land. Everything else I have is tuned in fifths, so this'll be an eye-opener. Can't wait! I listen to oud CDs every day, some of it's bound to sink in sooner or later. Right?

SamirCanada - 2-7-2006 at 10:34 PM

Great work! I have been a silent observer so far but thats really great stuff you have done. Lets hear it!

for the strings I suggest you let us know what the scale lenght is and then someone will be able to guide you get the proper set. If its a arabic scale since this was a syrian oud at first ( right? ) then a arabic set should be available. D'addario makes a commonly available (in music stores around here) set that is suposed to be suitable for turkish and arabic oud and so far there the best strings that I have used. That turkish set could be a little too thin for a arabic tuning but you never know... it could be worth a shot.
Good luck and all the best. Hopefully that music your listening to will sink in :airguitar: and then after restauring an arabic instrument you might even start playing the music! Regardles of what you play tho all of your efforts comands all my respect and appreciation.

Mike - 2-8-2006 at 09:43 AM

Congratulations on a job well done Jim. I really enjoyed following your project. Let's get some more pictures of the finished job though. ;)

Dr. Oud - 2-8-2006 at 09:48 AM

Nice job Jim, I have found that each oud reacts differently to strings both in gauges and fabrication. I found GHS to be at the bottom of my list. D'Adarrio makes individual strings available for classical guitars (same stuff) that allows you to gauge each course to balance the volume across the range. Thin Man String company sells them. If some strings are stronger or weaker (can happen) you end up compromising with your technique, which is like running a race with a slipper on one foot and a logger's boot on the other. I confess that I've used old Tru-oil even after it's skinned over - I just strain it and add a bit ot turpentine to dry it out, it seems ok to me...

carpenter - 2-8-2006 at 11:18 AM

Thanks, all, for the kind words and help over time. It means a lot to get good opinions, and problems solved. More pictures, eh? The good stuff, or the lapses in judgement? Plenty of both on hand...

In just a couple of days, having the strings up (close) to pitch, it's sounding stronger, the bottom could develop. I poked around sites looking at string brands & gauges; I'll try some different things once it's a little stabilized and played in. Also, I guess that fir top is maybe a bit stiffer than spruce at the same thickness, could stand a stouter string. Maybe. Our tireless R&D Dep't is on the case. (Doug fir is really a flavor of spruce, they tell me, so...)

Anyway, from playing by-ear fiddle for longer than I care to think about, I notice some tunes just happily fall under the fingers. No doubt written by fiddlers; some are obviously button or piano accordion-written, flute, pipes, what have you, and they feel different. (To me.) Oud tunes will probably feel natural on an oud, wouldn't you think? Just a matter of time and whacking at it. (I hope.)

Did a bit more nut fine-tuning, I'm sure that'll be 'just nice' soon. And another tip of the hat to Dr Oud for the clear, simple instructions in the book. You got to toss the kibble over where the slow dogs can get some, and a slow dog thanks you.

paulO - 2-8-2006 at 12:27 PM

Dear Carpenter,

Great job on the oud, it looks totally cool. Like Richard sez, experimenting with strings can make quite a difference, and the D'darrio nylon guitar strings are good quality, and allow for lots of experimenting. For now, the strings and oud are still adjusting, and it'll take the strings a few weeks to settle down. Just keep playing it, keep it off the wall !!

Regards...paulO

Despite popular demand

carpenter - 2-9-2006 at 11:43 AM

Got a few detail pictures. The pegbox is fairly nice; I'm monkeying around with the string alignment. My theory, and I like to think I've grown as a theorist, is that the straighter shot the string takes from the nut to the peg, the happier the string, and the tone. Next time (okay, I'm thinking there will be another oud built - don't tell the missus, she'd have my head on a pike), I think I'd flatten the pegbox/neck angle a couple of degrees; there is a course that hits the peg when it goes over, and I'd like 'em hanging out in the air. Live and learn...and maybe it's overly fussy, but I've got to press my advantages.

The top

carpenter - 2-9-2006 at 11:49 AM

Here's the top. About all I can say is that it's easy to look at. I would move the pickguard (don't know the accepted name...) closer to the bridge. Somewhere in my studies, I read that (physics-wise) the ideal place to sound a string is at 7/8 of the length, open or stopped. I dunno. I tend to pick and bow where it sounds good; haven't really looked, being busy playing at the time, but it maybe sounds right.

Outside photos, notice - it's sunny in Oregon! About time.

And

carpenter - 2-9-2006 at 12:00 PM

A litle detail of the beard (again, I'm sure there's a real name...). Hadn't done any inlay for a while, but it turned out well. Also the results of my pre-glued-edge-binding-sandwich approach - the right side, and the rest, looks good, but (oopsie!) there's a little gaposis on the left. What can I say? It hid under the tape? Too late now, and no excuses. Next time, museum quality!

The beauty of the process, observe and (hopefully) learn. And yeah, I'm getting firmer in thinking there will be "next time." Friend of mine has some Port Orford cedar that would make a nice top...I'd lose money letting it sit there.

That's all, folks.

Jameel - 2-9-2006 at 12:16 PM

Great pics. Looks very nice. We're still waiting to hear it, fiddle tunes or not. I'd love to hear a fiddle tune. For pegbox layout, check this page http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=1048&pa...

Dincer has a great design that prevents any string from touching another. Very clever.

Aha!

carpenter - 2-9-2006 at 12:39 PM

I thought it was a great theory! I'll check it out.

I have to get some kind of recording trip together; by the time that happens, I might actually be able to play something - tho' I'm starting to get the feel. I really have to pay attention to what peg I'm turning, I noticed that right off.

And I just have to include this picture; friend of mine is making Norris panel and smoother planes. Jaw-dropping attention to detail...anyhow, he made me this dandy block plane. (I requested the yew infill out of sentiment, he usually does rosewood or ebony.) Nothing like a sharp plane, I can do it all day; sharp tools and good wood! Shavings like a de-laminated piece of Kleenex! Great toy, and I'll probably never use it to capacity, but I'll try. And I'm now a convert to the sticky-back-adhesive-and-surface-plate school of sharpening - no more bellied-out waterstones to flatten! Quick and easy! (Well, I do keep an 8000 stone for that last little bit, of course.)

Jameel - 2-9-2006 at 12:53 PM

Ok, now you've got my attention. Who is your friend? That is an incredible plane. I have a few Lie-Nielsens, but this is in a class by itself. I'd love to have one of those.

Definitely nice lifetime investment

carpenter - 2-9-2006 at 01:02 PM

Um - I guess this isn't really the place for commercial efforts - I'm at artcarp@efn.org - email me, and I'll get you his address. We're slowly working on a website for his efforts, but his provider's currently on the fritz; might have to go the snail-mail route. Let me know, okay?

Here's a nice smoother, jusr for drooling over...

Jameel - 2-9-2006 at 03:09 PM

Oh my, that is gorgeous....

SamirCanada - 2-9-2006 at 04:00 PM

There so sexy I would say that these are xxx rated pictures :D

carpenter - 2-9-2006 at 04:42 PM

Please - I'm blushing...