Mike's Oud Forums

oudmaker Yildirim Palabiyik

Andy - 12-5-2005 at 08:11 PM

There is a new oud web site from oud maker Yildirim Palabiyik from Izmir. I'll try to find out where he learned to make ouds etc. The site is located at: http://ouds.atspace.com

Monty88 - 12-5-2005 at 08:22 PM

his instruments look fantastic. I would like more info on this builder. Anyone had any experience?

SamirCanada - 12-5-2005 at 10:33 PM

The site looks really inspired by Spyros and Dimitris's site. none the less his ouds are stuning.

spyros mesogeia - 12-7-2005 at 05:14 AM

I can see now that people start to copy our site.....interesting....:rolleyes:,well,what can I say,maybe they want to take a look to Dimitris's instruments too....anyhow,each flower has his own parfume,each oudmaker has his own style,I don't think that a site makes the diference,even if it is the same,I am sure that the oudmaker that has this site has his own ''parfume'' on his sound.I am sure that people knows what they want,and if they want an instrument from an specific oudmaker they will choose by the sound and the quality of the instrument.I wish to our new friend to be a concourent that will respect the instrument as all of us,and wish him luck with his site and his worshop.Dimitris has allready his reputation,and people is that will judge him by accepting or not Dimitris's instruments.The only thing that matters for Dimitris is the instrument,the oud.As for me,believe me,is the most wonderfull thing that I have in my life.I only wish to God,when I will die one day,if there is Paradise,for me will be If I will have the possibility to continue to studdy this wonderfull instrument....The ''uti''-oud-ud.
Best Regards to all from Greece
Spyros Koliavasilis

mavrothis - 12-7-2005 at 08:23 AM

I have contacted one of the listed sales people on this site and asked them to change their layout/design so it is not a flagrant copy of dimitrisouds.com. I hope they take the time and make the changes. It is very easy to create a web site these days, there is no need to copy other people's work so closely.

mavrothis

al-Halabi - 12-7-2005 at 09:52 AM

Mavrothis,

You are perfectly right to bring this plagiarism to their attention. The copying of others' work without acknowledgement extends, unfortunately, beyond web layout. Just a month or so after Viken Najarian introduced his electric oud I saw replicas of it in a store in Istanbul, produced by a local maker. I was surprised by the rapid imitation of his model and mentioned it to Viken. He was taken aback but realized that there wasn't much he could do about it.

Andy - 12-7-2005 at 07:14 PM

Unfortunately this maker seems to have started off with a less than good begining. On ebay, Pyramidshop copied some my words from my site "The OUD is played and enjoyed throughout the Near and Middle East, North Africa and is gaining a following in other parts of the world, also it is fretless and has a deep beautiful mellow sound like no other instrument." This is my creation and at first I was botherd by it, then I emailed him and thanked him for copying my words, I was honored. :):)
To follow up on the price, Gokce said the price is $1000 and I'm sure transportation charges are extra. From what I understand the oud maker learned his craft at a University.

mavrothis - 12-8-2005 at 06:27 AM

Yeah, this is all unfortunate and not very impressive. One of the sales people I contacted from this site wrote back and apologized. Apparently, a web "designer" was hired to make the site, but really just ripped off different sources, mostly dimitrisouds.com, to do it. Not very imaginative.

Anyway, the sales person promised to try and fix this problem, so we'll see. I'm going to keep an eye on the site and see if any changes come about. I'm definitely not honored by this at all.

mav

David Parfitt - 12-8-2005 at 06:45 AM

Just noticed that they have stolen parts from my site too. :mad:

David

rourourou - 12-8-2005 at 03:37 PM

Hello

I find this oud wenderful...
any body have edea abaout sound?

Andy - 12-11-2005 at 04:06 PM

I was going to mention that you could email the people listed in the contact info but I see that the site is under construction.

A modest contribution dealing with ethics

farukturunz - 12-12-2005 at 01:23 AM

No need to explain that every individual who attempts to participate at a group, first assumes some ethical rules will warranty his or her rights. Visa versa all groups stipulate members to obey general ethical rules. This is a sort of mutual expectation. All kind of human groups demand respect from every member towards all the other's rights and stay loyal to the general ethical merits. I have a serious concern about the controlling mechanism of this group. If only autocontrol is expected to be in use, I must state that it is not satisfactorily valid. Being ultimatelly regretfull I will scrutinize my membership to this group, if messages violating other's rights are not criticised like this case. Plagiarize of a web site can not be approved, of course. I agree with all the blames. I also would like to remind to all attenders of this group: I had contradicted an untrue announcement dealing with socalled "price winner" oud but no one (including the maker of that oud) made any comment except one asking me to give more information. Only an un-innocent silence concealed that shame afterwards. I would like to bring to all's attention that unjust rivalry is taking place in some maker's benefit very often on this forum. If deceiving the forum members is seen "principally normal" then the only thing I can say is "all yours and be blessed!":cool:

SamirCanada - 12-12-2005 at 10:13 AM

I dont think the maker you are refering to is able to respond mr. Turunz.
Wether he even visits these forrums is another question? Then I think its normal not to expect him to awnser something he has no Idea about. This Claim of winning a price wasnt made by the maker himself...? Did you read a member's posts saying it won the said price? Could it have been just some kind of rumor or misunderstanding? Is there the possibility that you were not involved with some kind of contest they had for arabic ouds?
I understand what could make you think that some makers are benefiting from good relations with the members here. Is there ANything wrong with that? Your integrity remains untouched mr. Turunz BUT...

This website on the other hand is Theft.. not only from one site but many other members's sites here. They probably would have said it was fine to take there material if they had asked them.
I dont think you can compare the 2 issues Sir.
Maybe you are friends with this person wich in this case you are entiteled to take there defence. But you should know that they have responded to members here by saying they would hire a different web developer. So in the end nobody has said that the maker was involved and to speak for myself I think he makes beutifull ouds. Lets just say that they perhaps didnt make a good choice with there website developers but in no way did anyone say it was the makers responsability. It shure is the maker's responsability now that the website changes tho. Ethicaly...I hope you can agree with that.

And in the end its not even up to me to raise this issue I just wanted to say that there is a way that things can get misunderstood over the forrums. Your welcome to have your own opinion on whatever topic... but its not right if you expect everyone to agree with you on everything. So about the controling mechanism as you put it. Its more then likely that if your about to express your opinion on something and you are aware that it is somewhat marginal where most people arent going to agree with you... Then you can expect people to let you know about there own opinion. Thats the ethical thing to do.

Mike - 12-12-2005 at 11:26 AM

You know I've visited a number of websites that contain almost all (if not all) the video and audio files that I encode and share with everybody here...and not one of them asked my permission. To that I say...who cares.

Let me just add my two cents here. A number of years ago I got into the oud. Being Arabic, I wanted an Arabic oud. At the time there was virtually no information about the Arabic oud on the net. As a matter of fact, there was the myth that Turkish ouds were far superior to Arabic ouds on almost every site or discussion board that I looked for information on. After getting my first Shehata oud and a very good Mourad el-Turkey oud I decided to make this website to give the Arabic oud a presence on the web. Nowhere on this site will you see an opinion by me that says Arabic ouds are superior to Turkish ouds. Also, as much as many would not like to believe this . . . I make no money whatsoever from those who have profited (and there are many...Arabic as well as Turkish) from promoting their websites, ouds, CDs, gigs, etc. on these forums. It makes me happy to see hardworking people benefit from this website.

So Faruk, if you choose to not visit this site...I could honestly care less. Is it supposed to make me feel bad that you will or will not visit the site? Well I am sorry to inform you that it doesn't.

Again, I don't really need to justify myself. But for those of you who I know have accused me of profiting from this website...I MAKE NO MONEY from any oudmaker, musician, promoter, or other websites from my website. This website costs me money to maintain, and I do it happily (most of the time). Some have incinuated that I am in business with Maurice Shehata. I encourage any of you to contact him and ask him if I get a percentage from any of his sales. If any of you think it is wrong for me to say how impressive I think his ouds are, it is my opinion, and I am free to have it. If you don't like it, start your own website.

revaldo29 - 12-12-2005 at 12:28 PM

I really don't see what the complaint is here. This is a public forum and anyone can express his or her opinion, so long as that opinion is expressed professionally and with a certain level of class. In my two years here, I have seen all types of oud makers and ouds being promoted here that I would not have access to any other way. Its true that Shehata ouds are greately promoted on this website but this is not becuase of mike's promotions, its because most people that purchase a oud made by Maurice Sheata are rather happy with it. I am extremely happy with my shehata and I would recommed it to anyone else looking for a professional quality arabic oud at a deascent price. Not everyone can afford to pay $2000 for a good instrument.

Deceiving people is not ethical

farukturunz - 12-12-2005 at 03:00 PM

Why do you try to convince me Mike? You do not care my attendance here any more. You are trying to convince some one else. I want to hear the reason of your silence whilst the false information and my rejection took place here. You could stay silent again. I did not mention any one's name. My criticism is on general attitude and general silence against a lie. I was in Amman. Do not try people to understand it as if a contest has been done covering only Arab makers. I was invited there to lead the workshop. Could it be possible that I had not been informed about such a contest? If you are insistent on this sort of "explanation" I can get an official letter from the commitee organized the "Oud Days" to proof that no contest has ever been made.. You did not interfere and make this sort of an "explanation" in time and now seem irritated, why? You are also giving me advise to create my own forum. You are so generous Mike.

Mike - 12-12-2005 at 03:09 PM

I'm not an idiot. I can read between the lines. Do you want me to explain to you what you were trying to say? If you think I'm deceiving people, so be it. I don't need to explain anything to you. I don't even know how your issue is related to this thread to begin with.

oudman - 12-12-2005 at 04:37 PM

Mr Turunz
Rather than make accusations against Mike, you should be thanking him. Youre name has been mentioned numerous times on this site, and im sure many people still wouldnt know who you were if it werent for this site
Mike makes it easy for us to sell instruments, helps artists promote their cds, helps luthiers promote their work and he doesnt get a penny for it. He pays for this site out of his pocket and doesnt charge us membership fees
I have told Mike numerous times that he should make some sort of profit for all the ouds that get sold here, Shehata, Haluk etc, but he is such a gentleman, he wont here of it.

Brian Prunka - 12-12-2005 at 04:54 PM

Hmm . . . this discussion is so heated it almost makes me wish I knew what the heck they're talking about.

For what it's worth I think what Mike has done here is great, and I know of at least one person who is buying a Turunz oud because of a post (by me) on this board saying how impressive it was. For the record, I think Shehata's ouds are decent for the money, but I'm not crazy about their sound. They're solid and well-made, which is more than one can say for most new Arabic ouds (with exceptions; Ghadban's ouds are nice). Shehata seems to spend a lot of time on fancy visuals and not have a very deep understanding of sound production. This is just my opinion, which I'm free to state here; if anyone else has a different opinion, they're free to say whatever they like--I won't be offended (unless you call me names). If Mike was trying to promote Shehata, he would censor this post. see if he does.
I remember the pre-mikeouds days . . . and we're definitely better off because of his vision and hard work.

Mike - 12-12-2005 at 05:56 PM

You know...I don't have very many rules here. Actually, Greg recently asked me to write up a code of conduct of sorts and have everybody agree to it, but I refused to do it. People are free to say what they want to say here as long as they are polite to each other. Inevitably, disagreements will arise, and luckily, for the most part, people have been able to treat each other with respect and the debates resolve themselves. I trust this will continue to happen in the future, and if issues arise, we'll deal with them accordingly. Having faith in the civility of the people who visit and participate here is a good thing in my opinion, and that's why there's no code of conduct. The only real rules (unwritten btw) I have here are be nice to each other by respecting each other and don't diss Farido.

Brian, I disagree with your comment that Mo's ouds are "decent", but like I said, you are entitled to your opinion. If you think somebody who was taught oudmaking by his dad, who in turn was an apprentice to Gamil George, has a lack of understanding of sound production, then you are free to do so. I personally think that is absurd, but that is my opinion.

Anyway, the only reason I am even posting in this thread is because somebody chose to attack my ethics. I'm sorry, but I'm not going to sit back and take that quietly. I hate to toot my own horn here, but a number of oudmakers (turkish as well as arabic) have benefitted from this site, and yes, including you Faruk. And like I said, that makes me happy, and I don't expect anything whatsoever in return. For Faruk to make comments like, "Being ultimatelly regretfull I will scrutinize my membership to this group" and "If deceiving the forum members is seen "principally normal" then the only thing I can say is "all yours and be blessed!"" shows me a total lack of gratitude. I'm not expecting his gratitude, but I also was not expecting personal attacks either. As a matter of fact, I have a lot of respect for Faruk as an oudmaker, as does Maurice. Maurice told me that himself by the way. I get a number of emails from people looking to purchase ouds. Whenever they tell me that they are looking for a Turkish oud, Faruk has been one of the names I mention as a top Turkish oudmaker with a very good reputation. That is why this is pretty disappointing to me. As far as I'm concerned, I'm done with this topic.

Mike - 12-12-2005 at 06:23 PM

Okay, I lied. I'm not completely done with this thread.

Faruk,
I just re-read my initial response in this thread. I noticed that I was terse and somewhat rude. I take back the comment about not caring if you visit this site or not. I should not have said that, and for that I apologize.
Mike

Now, I am officially done with this thread.

Andy - 12-12-2005 at 08:48 PM

Well, after reading all this I sincerely hope that everyone will just refrain from posting negative remarks. All I was trying to do is inform the group that we now have another oud maker. I felt that I was being attacked for posting the site. If I offended anyone, sorry.

SamirCanada - 12-12-2005 at 11:19 PM

Not at all Andy.
This website is about a good maker. There isnt anything wrong with sharing it.
Nobody will blame you if its so turns out that it the web developpers copied another site...That would be non-sence. Like you said earlier they could have stolen parts of your website even. But you dont have to be sorry at all. Well thats just how I feel. Iam shure everyone else could assure you of this tho.

Apology

farukturunz - 12-13-2005 at 01:20 AM

To all gentlemen who involved in this boring thread: Thanks to the enlightening comments of all, I became fully convinced eventually that I showed ingratitude to your efforts in behalf of me. I must thank to all of you for your exertion, if I had not done so far.
I have been involved in a vast searching to understand the possibilities for creating harmony between the parts of an oud and making some 800 ouds so far, but I must admit that I have neglected to be prudent enough to understand the harmony between the moderators, members and the founding persons of the net groups. As far as I have been backed by these gentlemen, how come I dare to show ingratitude towards their good treatment! Please give it to my inexperience. I should not insist on the issue up to the point that Mr. Mike's confession would have been inevitable. I am so sorry Mike! You don't know how a tenderhearted man I am. I am fully regretful for pushing you to that point. I beg you: please forgive me and please do not dismiss me from the group. You are great.
Possibly every one witnessing this debate will admit that I have never written any rude words (I am always so polite) so I am not apologizing for. Anyhow please forgive me if I caused any discomfort. I am positive.

Brian Prunka - 12-13-2005 at 07:22 AM

Sorry to keep this thread going . . . I just wanted to clarify that when I said that Shehata's ouds are "decent for the money", I meant that they are worth about what he charges. They're not some great deal, but they're not overpriced either. I regard the Shehata as a professional instrument, though not at the high end of that class. I wasn't implying that they are bad instruments, but they don't sound like Nahats or Georges. If they did, they'd be worth a lot more. Maybe they will in 30 years, who knows?
I'm open to changing my opinion if/when I hear an outstanding Shehata oud. I really really wish that Shehata's ouds were great, because I would desperately love to find an excellent instrument in the $1000 price range--I know of none.

SamirCanada - 12-13-2005 at 09:31 AM

What do you think of Abadi's ouds?
Personaly I find that the sound on the oud he is using in the video page section Taqassim in Dubai 2003 is absolutely amazing. I might sound like Iam telling you what you should like or dislike...but Iam shure many agree it has a beutifull sound. Your also right that we dont know what will hapen to there sound 30 years or more from now..?

http://www.mikeouds.com/video/Abadi%20Taqsim.ram

And this is a live recording...

They do have different sound then Nahat. Its rather normal when they are typicaly egyptian ouds and the Nahat's have the syrian tonality. No doubt there is a big difference in both and It just comes down to personal choice its about the type of sound you like. Like Dincer put it, people that want my sound come to buy my ouds. I guess it would be the same for most makers.

revaldo29 - 12-13-2005 at 09:35 AM

I'm with you 100% samir. I think that once the sound meets a certain standard of quality, good sound from that point is in the ear of the beholder.

oudman - 12-13-2005 at 03:15 PM

Id like to quickly respond to Brians post - especially this part " I wasn't implying that they are bad instruments, but they don't sound like Nahats or Georges"
First of all, Shehata is an Egyptian, I dont think his goal is to have his ouds sound like Nahats - he wants them to sound Egyptian - like the sound you hear when Sunbati plays. And thats what you get when you purchase a Shehata oud - you like, dont like, all a matter of opinion. That he doesnt know much about sound production is nonsense.
Also, how are you comparing 70 year old instruments to a brand new instrument?
Furthermore, I have heard Ghadban ouds that do sound like Nahats. Keep in mind, he does not want every oud he makes sounding like a Nahat - he has his own style and sound.
Finally, i dont think the solution is to have a Turkish luthier attempt to make an Arabic oud , pay double the price of an Arabic oud- (and from what Ive heard from Simon and Najib, not do a great job)
I think a fair comparison would be between luthiers that are alive....

Brian Prunka - 12-13-2005 at 05:01 PM

I never said he doesn't know much, I said that he seemed not to have a very deep understanding. There's a huge gap between the two statements; mine implies that he has some understanding, and possibly even a somewhat deep understanding, just not a very deep understanding.
It's a good point, though, that he's Egyptian and he could be designing the ouds perfectly to sound exactly the way they do. He perhaps has great understanding and just wants a different sound; obviously there are excellent turkish makers who understand sound production but go for a Turkish sound. So I'll recant that opinion.
I've heard many posts here where the Shehata ouds sound very good, but I didn't love the ones I've heard in person (one of which was a Nahat 'copy', and sounded nothing like a Nahat). I liked them okay, but didn't love them. Sound on a recording is very different that real sound, the projection is irrelevant and the microphone etc. all color the sound.
Why can't I compare old instruments to new instruments? I specifically said that the Shehatas are professional level instruments and are worth what he charges, and that no one knows what they will sound like in time. If you could get a Nahat or Georges for the price of a Shehata, would you say no? They cost a lot more, and I took that into account in my response. I don't care what a Shehata will sound like in 60 years, because I'll most likely be dead.
I don't recall saying anything negative about Mr. Ghadban's ouds. And I didn't suggest having a Turkish maker make an Arabic oud.
You're right that a fairer comparision would be between living luthiers, but I wasn't trying to be fair--it does seem that Shehata is very highly regarded in the forums and I knew that I would get flamed for saying I wasn't thrilled with his ouds. I think his reputation will be fine. As far as living Arab luthiers go, Ghadban and Shehata are among the best that are relatively accessible in the US, and I think Ibrahim Sukkar deserves mention as well. There are obviously others who are more obscure, and the Bashir-style makers are an entire category themselves.

A long post, sorry!

Greg - 12-13-2005 at 08:54 PM

My dear fellow oud lovers, there is a recurring theme in many/most of the disagreements in these forums and that is how passionately we each feel about our own instruments and the artists who make them. We are not ordinary folk, we choose to try to master one of the most difficult of instruments. And for those of us raised with western music, the level of difficulty is even higher. So we are a bunch of passionate individuals. Passion creates energy. That energy can create heat or light. Sometimes we see more of the former than the latter.
There are also members of these forums who are not only passionate about their own instruments, but they also resell instruments on behalf of one or more makers. In some cases it would be reasonable to assume that the profit incentive may serve to heighten their already high level of passion.

If we cast our minds back over the past year or so, we could each remember several serious disagreements that have arisen as a result of these passions. If we are to be perfectly honest with ourselves, we could probably also remember such incidents that have caused each of us to be become annoyed and resentful. In most cases we, as individuals, have not entered the fray, but have harboured some ongoing ill-will that may bubble to the surface at a later time.

So, a new member joins the forums and asks a perfectly reasonable question, such as, “I am enthralled by the sound of the Arabic (or Turkish) oud and I want to begin learning. Where can I buy a good instrument at a reasonable price?”
The process begins –
Member, Fred Smurf, has been learning oud for a total of six months, but has a nice oud that he loves, so he jumps right in and writes, “The best maker of Arabic ouds in the world is John Murray of Kalathumpia. His agent in the USA is Ye Old Oud Shoppe. Go for it, I can guarantee you that you wont be disappointed.”
Perhaps a number of other members will make similar “recommendations.” Of course, in some cases, there will be members who, unlike Fred Smurf, will be much more knowledgeable (and even-handed) and will provide details on a number of possible suppliers, together with an idea of price and quality.

If we get too many Fred Smurf incidents on these forums, four things happen:
1/ The people making the initial inquiries come to a specialist forum to get expert opinion and do not get it.
2/ Several of the luthiers who could have provided a suitable instrument at a suitable price will not have had the opportunity to be considered (and may even get angry at what they consider to be an unjust process).
3/ Several members who are passionate about the makers of their instruments, also get angry at the person or persons who have provided such tunnel-visioned recommendations.
4/ Some of these members will try to redress the imbalance by promoting their own choice at every possible opportunity.

These forums are not the only source of information on our chosen instrument. An untold number of instruments were made and sold long before these forums came into existence. And if the forums were to end tomorrow, ouds would continue to be made and sold. But as the forums do attract folks looking for advice, I believe we should accept that we have a responsibility to provide the best possible information and to provide it in an unbiased way.
I believe that we also have a responsibility to be even-handed and fair to all the wonderful artists who toil over these under-priced wonders.

I have a possible solution, but perhaps other will have a better one. Here’s mine;
A web page that lists all known makers. In my view, such a list should include information on the types of instruments made, the general price range, the method of construction (luthier working alone, or with apprentices, or factory etc.), an approximation of how many ouds have been made and sold, and so on. Each maker’s name could link to a separate page that, in turn, provides links back to maker-specific posts on these forums.

This would not avoid ALL the passionate disputes over quality, but I believe it could help.

What do you think?

Regards,

Greg

SamirCanada - 12-13-2005 at 10:53 PM

Well said and good Idea. I see a lot of truth in what you wrote and I do agree that some of it might concern me (maybe I just feel guilty or maybe I can identify with it). Iam shure others see what concerns them in there.
Thank you Greg.
I do think that such a page with accurate information would make it much less of a battle of who gets to dirrect the new members first so that they get the sale or just to promote an instrument they own. And then we can have good hearted discutions about different ouds without getting into arguments.

David Parfitt - 12-14-2005 at 12:30 AM

Greg,

This sounds like an excellent idea. I have lost count of the number of emails I have received via my website from people looking for advice on which oud to buy. I always point them to these forums for further information, but it would be nice to have a comprehensive list of oud makers with the kind of information you indicated to save time searching through the forums.

Let's see what Mike thinks about the idea, and whether he thinks his site is the best place for such a list. If not, I am happy to make a dedicated page on my site or expand the list of oud makers I already have there. This may be a good solution as my site covers both Arabic and Turkish ouds. I am also not involved in buying or selling ouds, so this would preclude any accusations of favouring a particular oud maker.

All the best

David

congratulations Greg

sydney - 12-14-2005 at 01:03 AM

This a great idea and must have taken a lot of thinking.

Very wise mate. :applause:


David,

I do admir your offer of dedicating a page on your web site.

Good on you mate. :applause:

My last post

farukturunz - 12-14-2005 at 04:12 AM

I am sorry for posting to this thread and causing it to last so long irrelevantly. I am also well aware that lack of direct relevance with the thread in appearance caused confusion and pushed people in to amazement.
I am ultimatelly sorry for not staying still and silent whilst people attack to a new web site's owner and designer for thier appropriation from the other sites even using the word "theft!". Where were these gentlemen I asked to myself when I corrected a false information given in the same place. I just wanted to test their feeling of justice. Their capacity for discriminating true and false is not my real concern, but their ability to weigh and estimate the real positions of the involving parts have failed. I pondered over for not writing any more, but this would be unfair and not explanatory for those who have witnessed the thread. Besides, it is not acceptable such nonsense claims like "...im sure many people still wouldnt know who you were if it werent for this site." for me as a maker who devoted his life to oud making art and made at least 800 oud so far. What an insulting claim this is! If the forum (like all the individuals) has been aware of my presence this must not be due to forum itself, logically. If the forum claims to be acting as an informative media, there isn't any possibility for it to turn a blind eye on an oud maker whose reputation is out of any discussion. This recognition is now putforward as a favour by some gentlemen. OK they may see it up to an extend they can see. But for some one who assumes all the others to be just, is it the other scale of balance to pretend not to see the lies while the other scale is said to be full of predestination and benefit! My endeavour for understanding how an oud works and teaching it on every ground is a humble service in behalf of this instrument and people who strive for making good ouds. I share my knowledge on my site and have shared it on every ground so far. What does this mean to those people who try to insult me by some nonsense comments.
Any way I will not post any remarks or comments to this forum any more.

Thank you for your sensitiveness again.

With my warmest regards,

David Parfitt - 12-14-2005 at 04:32 AM

Dear Faruk

It clearly states on my website that I own the copyright to the material on there, and hence it remains my intellectual property. The taking of my property without my permission constitutes theft, so I am perfectly justified in describing it as such. It took me many hours to create my website, so it makes me extremely angry when someone steals large chunks of it. Imagine if someone tried to pass off one of your meticulously crafted ouds as their own work - how would you feel?

The owners of the Turkish oud website have informed me that the web designer they employed is responsible for stealing this material from my site. They have also assured me that it will be removed, so we shall wait and see if they are as good as their word.

With my very best wishes.

David

sydney - 12-14-2005 at 05:19 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by farukturunz
Where were these gentlemen I asked to myself when I corrected a false information given in the same place. I just wanted to test their feeling of justice.


Master Faruk,

I would like to show my respect and admiration for your person as well as your art.

[SNIP]

Thanks to you and to anybody who isgiving their whole life to oud making.

(A SECTION OF THIS POST HAS BEEN REMOVED BECAUSE I CONSIDERED IT TO BE PROVOCATIVE AND COULD HAVE LEAD TO FURTHER DISPUTATION BETWEEN FORUM MEMBERS - Greg, Moderator)

Mike - 12-14-2005 at 08:29 AM

This thread is officially closed. As Emad loves to always have the last word, we will give it to him.