Hosam - 6-6-2006 at 09:19 PM
Inspired by Jameel’s fine work, encouraged by Jonathan, Carpenter and the other projects made by the members of this forum, I decided to start my
first oud project. This project will be based on the1930 Abdo Nahat oud. I will be using Dr. Oud book as my primary source, but it will not be my only
source as I have deviated from the measurement used in the book.
Hosam - 6-6-2006 at 09:29 PM
After six month of preparation, the time has come to generate some saw dust. I would like to thank Jameel for his help answering my questions during
my planning for this project. Thank you Jonathan for very informative thread, Dincer, Dr. Oud, Haluk and the rest of the fine oud makers here for
teaching the rest of us a lot about the instrument that we all came to love.
More information about this remarkable instrument is found here in this thread http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=1092#pid716...
If anyone has more detailed photos for this oud or measurements for any of the Abdo Nahat ouds made around the same time period, please post it here
or email me at hosam.alsaadi (at) gmail (dot) com.
Hosam - 6-6-2006 at 09:49 PM
The Scale length for this oud will be 620 mm. Body length 520 mm, neck 206 mm and widest part of the face will be 370 mm. I started by drawing the oud
plan and marked the braces, shams and the bridge locations.
Hosam - 6-6-2006 at 10:05 PM
This is the material I used to build the oud bending machine. I used ¾ inch thick plywood and a silicone rubber heater with a thermostat. The
silicone rubber heater measures 6 inches X 30 inches and will get to 400 F in less than two minutes.
Hosam - 6-6-2006 at 10:26 PM
I got the silicone rubber heater from http://www.hiheat.com/ . I made a box from the plywood and routed the profile of the oud to the two inner sides of the bending machine. The depth
of the groove is a little over 1/3 inch and the width is 1/8 inch. I cut a thin sheet of metal and slide it into the groove. Placed the heater over
the metal sheet and covered it with another metal sheet.
Hosam - 6-6-2006 at 10:30 PM
The back.
Hosam - 6-6-2006 at 10:32 PM
Here is the completed oud bending machine.
Hosam - 6-6-2006 at 11:02 PM
I am not sure if this will work. This oud will have 15 ribs or actually 5 super ribs. Each super rib will have 3 regular ribs that will be attached in
a very small area (4 to 6 mm) at the maximum depth of the oud bowl. I will have to bend only five large ribs. The 6 inch width of the bending machine
will allow me to do that. I am planning to route the top of each rib from one side and the bottom of the other side for about 1.2 mm depth and 10 mm
width. This will all allow the ribs to overlap and increase the gluing area about 4 times and hopefully will make the back stronger. The central rib
will be routed from the top in both sides to distribute the stress to the two side of the oud through the neighboring ribs.
Hosam - 6-6-2006 at 11:38 PM
I am hoping that this method will also increase the coupling between the ribs making the back resonate more. It will also be more forgiving if the
ribs sides does not perfectly match and pass the light test. The drawback of this method is that I have to be really careful when bending the large
ribs. Breaking a large rib will be equivalent to breaking three ribs at once, very high waste of wood.
Here is a set of walnut guitar back and sides that I will be using.
Hosam - 6-7-2006 at 12:00 AM
The bending of my first large rib went smooth. I bend it dry. It took less than 15 minutes to bend the rib. The second rib I used steam to warm up the
wood and make it little damp. The result was better.
When I tried to cut the large rib into 3 ribs the wood split and separated completely. The second large rib did the same. This wood is perfectly
quartered so no damage was really done. I will have to glue this small part the normal way. I will try to increase the attached area from 6 mm to 20
mm area in my next large rib. I will also cut the wood and try to route it before bending it.
Here are the ribs after bending.
abusin - 6-7-2006 at 03:19 AM
Hi Hosam,
looking good so far, and I'm sure from what I can see now you will make an awesom oud based on the example you picked ( Insha Allah ), I wish you all
the best and you're lucky having all of this geniuses at hand and I'm sure they will be there to guide you all the way.
Good luck
best regards to all
Awad
Jameel - 6-7-2006 at 05:18 AM
Great start to what is perhaps the "ulitimate" oud project. I'm looking forward to seeing your progress and of course the outcome. There are some
mind-boggling aspects to this oud, and it's difficult enough thinking about how they were made, let alone making them. Your lap-joint rib edges seem
intriguing, looking forward to that too. Good luck, Hosam. 
Jonathan - 6-8-2006 at 03:39 PM
I can't wait to follow your project, Hosam. That bender is a great idea, and the wood looks superb.
Do you know how high you are getting the temperature of the wood for the bend?
Jameel - 6-8-2006 at 03:54 PM
Hosam,
How much springback are you getting? Did you compensate for this by making your bender more extreme at the upper and lower bouts?
Elaborate on your lap joint idea, would you? Do you plan to fit the ribs to previous rib, then rout the rabbet? How will you do this?
Hosam - 6-8-2006 at 05:53 PM
Thank you all for your kind encouragement!
Jonathan: I do not have a surface thermometer but the heater gets to 480 F. With the shut off thermostat and the sheet metal I think the temperature
will be between 400 F and 450 F. The silicone heaters have different wattage per square inch. The one I got is 5 watts /sq. in.
Jameel: Very few people are capable of making the “ultimate” oud project. I am not one of them. Luckily most of them are members of this forum. I
really wished if this was your project.
I did not compensate for the springback, the shape of the bender is exactly the same as the oud profile. For my first rib I had about ½ inch
spingback on the lower bouts. I did the rib again. For my second rib I left the rib on the bending form for few hours, I had none.
I am planning to cut the ribs and rout the rabbit on the flat rectangular wood sheet before bending it. After bending I will collapse the ribs
together and fit each rib to the next one.
I will take photos and post them here.
riadh.3oud - 6-9-2006 at 07:17 AM
Hello HOSAM
you will be oud maker!
it's very interessent..
good luck Akhi, i wait to hear you oud..
Peyman - 6-12-2006 at 10:50 AM
This is a neat invention. It takes out the guess work from free hand bending for beginners like me.
Good luck.
Jonathan - 6-17-2006 at 07:12 PM
I made a similar wood bender (actually, a bit simpler), and the thing is remarkably easy to use. And, each rib comes out to the exact shape that you
want it to come out to. I should have thought of it sooner so I could have used it with my first oud.
Hosam - 6-18-2006 at 09:19 PM
I managed to do some work in between the world soccer games 
I planned the rest of the ribs and sanded it down to 2.4 mm (100 then 220 grit). I cut the ribs and I rough routed the channels before bending.
Hosam - 6-18-2006 at 09:27 PM
Here is my dial thickness caliper. I used a scrap of canary wood; the throat is a little less than 9’’. I have also made the neck and tail blocks.
I used Spanish cedar.
Hosam - 6-18-2006 at 09:36 PM
This is what I use to steam the wood during the bending.
Hosam - 6-18-2006 at 10:03 PM
I have not finished working on this yet. This is going to be my hybrid mould/spreader. The bulkheads will be adjustable and will hopefully can be
reused for my next oud project. I used ¾’’ poplar wood and ½’’ aluminum rod. The lower piece of wood in the photo is not part of mould. I
am just using it to locate the position of the bulkheads. The mould will also double as a final bending form where the ribs will get the final shape.
Hosam - 6-18-2006 at 10:10 PM
Here is the super rib after bending. I just placed the rib over the unfinished form.
Hosam - 6-18-2006 at 10:14 PM
A closer look at the ribs
Hosam - 6-18-2006 at 10:23 PM
cross section
Hosam - 6-18-2006 at 10:30 PM
I stayed away from the actual lines where the channels need to be routed. This is my first time to use a router (actually a Dremel tool with a routing
attachment), I needed to get the feel of it. Maybe I will need to get a true router.
I will have to redo this on the actual lines. Here is a photo when the ribs are collapsed together
Jameel - 6-19-2006 at 05:32 AM
This is intriguing, Hosam. Is your super-rib still attached at the middle? Can you post some more detailed shots of the area where the rabbet tapers
off? How are you making this transition? Try to get some brighter lighting so you dont have to use the strobe. That hot spot is killing the shot. Have
you thought about how you are going to do the geometric and vine inlay on the bowl yet?
Hosam - 6-19-2006 at 03:24 PM
Yes, Jameel the super-rib is still attached at the widest part for about 2 inches. I will try to take better pictures without using the strobe. The
smaller ribs are separated by the width of the saw I used to do the partial cut. I will still need to do final adjustment for each rib side after the
final bending on the mould/spreader so the ribs will fit together. I will use a fine sanding paper and a very small drill bit that I got from my
dentist if the sanding does not do the trick.
Some of the ribs did springback about 10 mm at both ends. I will need to redo them again and keep them in the bending form for few days.
Hosam - 6-28-2006 at 10:58 AM
I had a misfortunate accident for my left hand. The accident happened while I was not working on the oud. But, this is a reminder for all of us to
follow and take all safety precautions when working with both power tools and hand tools. I am looking at a possible hand surgery to reconnect damaged
nerves. So, I am not really sure when I will be able to resume working on this project. If I am lucky enough I will just have to wait until my hand is
healed. Maybe I will find something I can do using just my right hand (drawing inlay preparation, pattern for shams).
Jameel - 6-28-2006 at 11:05 AM
That's terrible news Hosam. What an unfortunate incident. I hope it's not too bad. Let us know how it ends up. What did the damage? Table saw?
mavrothis - 6-28-2006 at 12:58 PM
Hosam,
I'm very sorry about your injury. I hope everything goes well with the surgery so you can heal quickly and get back to building (and playing).
Take care,
mavrothis
Peyman - 6-28-2006 at 01:29 PM
Sorry to hear about this. Hope you get well soon.
Mike - 6-29-2006 at 08:37 AM
Hosam,
Wishing you all the best and a quick recovery.
Best,
Mike
Hosam - 6-29-2006 at 08:43 AM
Thanks to everyone, you are all very kind. The accident was caused by a basement window that was suddenly shattered under the pressure of water due to
the resent rain we had here in northern Virginia. I just happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time.
I would like to get your thoughts/ideas about the best way to transfer the inlay patterns for the vine and the bird on the back as well as the shams
design and calligraphy to a drawing paper. All I have is the photo below. I would also like to get your thoughts about the size for the shams, it seem
to be larger than any regular shams on other ouds.
Jameel - 6-29-2006 at 12:46 PM
Hosam,
Here is a better version of that shamsa. If you have a tracing program, that should make you a nice drawing. I'd give you a copy, but I have yet to
make a vector drawing of this one.
Jameel - 6-29-2006 at 12:57 PM
That sounds actually much better than a table saw injury, since I assume the glass made a clean cut. I once had my left thumb pulled into a spinning
2.5" Forstner bit, it cut through clear through the flesh into the nail bed, and then popped out the side. I still have some numbness, and the thing
looks like it went through a meat grinder.
Ok, back to your question. I'm still trying to get better pics of the back of this oud. I think you'll have to try to sketch that pattern by hand as
close as you can. There are parts of the back that I've never seen, so you'll have to just interpolate.
I spent some time last year disecting the geometric pattern that's found throughout the instrument, and I think I have a pretty good grasp on how it
was done. Actually making the pieces is another matter, and I'm still trying to figure that out. The base square is built outward from a octagon. The
four corners are the confusing parts. They are all the same shape, but each one is rotated 90 degrees from the previous one. See the pic. At the top
is the base square. You can also see the base square inlaid as it's own element (with more of the corner pieces) in bone in the bottom photo. I have
more to say about this later.....
Jameel - 6-29-2006 at 03:20 PM
Here is a section of the back strip inlay. There are different clever ways to arrange the base square to achieve different patterns. Here the square
is arranged around a central octagon.
Jameel - 6-29-2006 at 03:22 PM
Here is a view of how I assembled the base squares to get the pattern. The yellow outline shows what part of the pattern makes up the inlay on the
back of the oud.
Jameel - 6-29-2006 at 03:23 PM
And finally the arrangement of the base squares to make up the face inlays.
Hosam - 6-30-2006 at 10:24 AM
Jameel, this is a much better way than the one I came up with. 
I was not really sure if the small triangles in the pattern are true triangles or they have a slight curve. Any way, I went with the slight curve
version. I used a long wallnut dowel and a very long strip of bass wood with a very small square cross section to test the pattern. I made two
triangle channels on each side of the dowel and glued the bass square strip to on of them. I sliced the dowel with the glued strip into smaller
cylendrical sections that will be inserted and arranged in a pattern into a pre drilled piece of wood that will be later sliced and used as the final
inlay. I will try to take some shots for my incompleted test inlay.
Jameel - 6-30-2006 at 10:28 AM
Well, I just did mine with the computer. I haven't actually cut wood yet! I'd love to see what you came up with. Please do post some pics when you get
a chance.
Hosam - 6-30-2006 at 10:34 AM
I will Jameel, On your previous post I am sorry to hear about your injury. I have created a thread for safety tips and tools here http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=3988&pa...
Hosam - 6-30-2006 at 02:27 PM
Here is the shots, it is not properly arranged but you get the idea.
Jameel - 6-30-2006 at 04:30 PM
Nice, Hosam. So you're doing a negative version of the inlay? Or are these just test pieces? Of course there's the issue of whether or not the
original is made up of so the show face is end grain or face grain. It's something I've tried to figure out, and I've consulted some expert
woodworkers and marqueteers in the process. They were stumped. It quite difficult to tell, but due to some of the chatoyance and end-grain-type
markings, I'm still stumped! Of course I'm only talking about the light wood. It wouldn't really matter if the dark wood was end grain, in fact, I
would choose end grain. Check the arrows in the photo. The top arrows point to areas that show stripes that are typical to end grain like maple,
granted, very dense, tight growth-ring maple, but it still looks like end grain, even lacking typical face grain chatoyance and luster. Now look at
the bottom arrow, pointing to an area that shows none of the stripes typical of end grain, rather showing chatoyance and luster, even a bit of
quartersawn ray-fleck that's common in maple. I know it's a small scale, but the difference is quite visible. Of course, making long sticks of short
grain would be quite the challenge. Heck it's even a challenge to make it with long grain! I admire your ambition and look forward to more of your
progress.
Hosam - 7-3-2006 at 02:49 PM
These are just test pieces. I will use maple for the light wood, for the dark wood I will use either walnut or basswood that I will have to stain to
look like walnut. Basswood is very good to work with in small scale.
Could it be that Nahat used both end grain and face grain for some reason? I can clearly see the end grain also at the back of the neck inlay.
Maybe the answer will be in looking at other ouds made by Abdo Nahat around the same time period? Detailed inlay photos, anyone?
oudipoet - 10-21-2006 at 09:25 AM
hi hosam hoare u doing? we haven t heard from u in a long time i was just wondering how is your project going? please let us know if u have more new
picts please share with us.
thanks.
Hosam - 10-22-2006 at 03:04 PM
Hello oudipoet and everyone, I am ready to resume this project after the mandatory stop after my hand surgery.
I used this time to upgrade my work area from a small corner desk with very basic tools to a complete home workshop. I am expecting my router table to
be delivered next week, which was the last entry in my list of workshop tools. I also did an enormous amount of reading in general wood working,
instrument making and Islamic patterns and architect.
Stay tuned!
Hosam - 1-18-2007 at 07:57 PM
Finally! resuming working back in this project. I will pick up where I left with the inlay. After looking at few books and extended staring at the
octagonal inlay pattern I found out that the pattern is based on large octagons touching at the edges and having a four pointed star in the gap
between them. The whole pattern is repeated in a square grid. The large octagon and the four pointed star are made up from a smaller patterns inside
each of them. I have outlined the large octagon with white line and the whole pattern square grid with yellow line.
Hosam - 1-18-2007 at 07:58 PM
After another round of staring session at that pattern! This is what I came up with: the whole pattern can be made from the two basic shapes shown
here and outlined in yellow.
Hosam - 1-18-2007 at 07:59 PM
Cutting the inlay strips.
Hosam - 1-18-2007 at 08:00 PM
Here I am thickness sanding the strips using luthier's friend station in drill press. With this setup I was able to be accurate to 0.1 mm, not bad at
all.
Hosam - 1-18-2007 at 08:01 PM
Gluing the strips together using vacuum press jig for uniform clamping pressure and because I was too lazy to clamp all those strips!
oudplayer - 1-18-2007 at 08:03 PM
hey hosam
I am happy that yr alright and its nice that u jumped back and continuing yr oud cant wait to see the end
thx sammy p.s welcome back
Hosam - 1-18-2007 at 08:03 PM
I cut some extra strips and used different kinds of wood.
Hosam - 1-18-2007 at 08:04 PM
Here are five different patterns out of seven that Nahat used on that oud. Two more to go.
jdowning - 1-19-2007 at 06:58 AM
Greetings Hosam - as a newcomer to this incredible Forum but one who is located at the far end of a telephone network with only a dial up connection
for internet access, it is taking me quite some time to work through all of the project postings in detail. Simply downloading a single page of images
can take what seems like forever at times. However, I seem to learn something new at each visit.
This morning I had a look at your project for the first time and am in awe that you have taken on this project to copy such a beautiful oud - but I
can understand where you get the motivation that will, in turn,ensure successful completion of this ambitious project. I trust that you will soon
recover fully from your recent unfortunate accident and that this will not hamper progress in the longer term.
Jameel posted a detailed image of the rosette (sham?) design earlier and I was wondering if there is an English translation of the Arabic text so
intricately woven into the design? I can see that the design is made up of a number of panels of text with a border of numerals in ascending order,
set anticlockwise, around the edge but, not being able to read Arabic calligraphy, I can only admire the overall visual appearance at present. Is the
Arabic text read inwards from the outside towards the centre or outwards from the centre - clockwise or anticlockwise? Any help to resolve my
ignorance in this matter would be appreciated.
Good luck
John
Jameel - 1-19-2007 at 01:12 PM
Nice tools, nice progress, nice inlay blanks. Nice everything. I'm really looking forward to seeing you start rolling on this again. That Festool saw
is really slick.
I think that geomtric pattern could spring from a whole bunch of different base-patterns. I think the bigger issue is making them on that scale, and
if one wanted to, end up with face grain showing. Now that's the trick! I'm not brave enough yet! Go Hosam!
riadh.3oud - 1-19-2007 at 03:11 PM
i am very happy to view that you continu you project
good luck my friend
excentrik - 2-1-2007 at 11:15 PM
Hosam!!! we need some updates! I just got into your project- cant wait habibi-
tarik
Hosam - 2-3-2007 at 06:49 AM
Thanks everyone. I am excited to get back at this project too! I need your help to complete it, so for those of you who have been watching, come on
guys participate and help me make a better oud.
John, the Shamsiyah calligraphy read anticlockwise inwards from the outside towards the centre. The two outer circles have the number and the names of
the Arabic notes. The inner circles have the names of the most common maqams, the most inner circle have the name Abdo Nahat & sons written along
with phrase Absolute Yekah. Here is a list of the 48 Arabic notes that was previously posted here in the forums. There are some note names that are
different than what was written on the Shamsiyah. The last note for instance (number 48) reads Sahm on the list but was written Gawab Nawa on the
Shamsiyah which I believe is just another name for the same note.
Jameel, I could come up with only one single square grid that when repeated will fill the plane for the whole pattern. There are many ways to come up
with the whole pattern using two or more grids put together.
Hosam - 2-3-2007 at 06:58 AM
I strated cutting the inlay tiles for the Shams, edge binding and the neck tiles. I used this miter box and a razor saw.
Hosam - 2-3-2007 at 07:03 AM
Edge tiles
Hosam - 2-3-2007 at 07:06 AM
There are 144 tiles for the shams alone, so 24 hours later... still cutting the tiles
Hosam - 2-3-2007 at 07:17 AM
I need to make another miter box for the 22.5 degree angle cuts. I also started making the tiles for the geometrical inlay pattern. This is really
small, the walnut square strip edge is only 1.6 mm. I am not satisfied with the octagonal strips, I will need to do them again.
jdowning - 2-3-2007 at 03:29 PM
Thanks for the translation of the calligraphy in the rosette Hosam - much appreciated. I really should make the effort to learn Arabic as well as the
complexities of oud musical theory!
Glad to see that work on your project is proceeding well. It will be fantastic when completed.
All the best.
John
Jameel - 2-3-2007 at 04:56 PM
Nice progress Hosam. I bet your fingers are getting a bit sore eh? Especially the left hand. Mine do. Those Exacto and Zona tools are pretty nice,
but I found the kerf in the aluminum miter box a bit too wide, and after lots of tiles it gets chewed up. I found a little plastic one (might be the
Exacto, dont remember) orange in color that I could saw my own kerf into for a perfect fit. It gets chewed up too, but I just make another kerf when
it does. There is a tiny miter box on the market that friend send me that uses jewelers circular saw blades. I havent bought one yet, but I'll post
some info when I do.
chaldo - 3-31-2007 at 10:06 PM
thanks for shring all this ya Hosam...
enjoy