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YORGO BACANOS

Edward Powell - 2-4-2009 at 05:26 AM

please, does anyone have any source for mp3s and even videos of him... or bio info?

he is probably my all-time favourite udi, and seems only to have put out 2 albums... both of which I have...

thanks for any info.

I would also be interested to hear other peoples opinion about his playing and his style - - - what are his influences etc.

I heard his critisised in Turkey for playing in a kind of overly-fast single-note style which means that he is not making use of the typical Turkish decorations. . . . but to my ears he is still decorating but often it is so fast that you almost don't hear it.

It is not the SPEED of his playing that attracts me - but the feeling.

Also, why is he not mentioned much among the great oud scholars? My guess is that he is a bit of a Django-type character, actually a Greek gypsy, and maybe was not in the educated-classical circles. . . .??

thanks

gravesmo - 2-4-2009 at 07:14 AM

Hi, have a look at these videos...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4s5bFsYgl2g

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyixhravWsA

dubai244 - 2-4-2009 at 07:58 AM

Hi Edward,

Mr.Yorgo one of the best oud player in his time and present time. I dont know much about him though but his records are very rare, like most of the old generation of oud players where there records were lost with time.
that's why people dont mention him because they dont know him or never heard about him.

You remind of similar case in our present time. There is one great oud player that no body knows him as oud player because he presented him self as singer more than oud player, and this guy live in cairo by way. His name Ahmad Fathi. he is orignally from yemen but he lives in Cairo. The best oud player i ever seen but never got his chance as oud player.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1na79QFf9cg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxObKZqFvG0&feature=related

Thanks

hi

fadel - 2-4-2009 at 08:13 AM

hi

thes sami shadaraban for camil tanpory

sorry

fadel - 2-4-2009 at 08:20 AM

hi

Edward Powell - 2-4-2009 at 01:51 PM

Wow... Feti Barut sounds just like Bacanos... amazing!

---also amazing is that twice in the same day I hear about Ahmed Fathi for the FIRST TIME.
I was just at Maurice ouds for the first time and he was telling me that Ahmed is the best oudi in the world. . . and now you are telling me the same. . .

amazing

suz_i_dil - 2-4-2009 at 01:54 PM

Check this double volume of oud taksims.
There is a few records of Yorgo Bacanos on the first volume.

http://www.kalan.com/english/scripts/album/dispalbum.asp?id=3645

Edward Powell - 2-4-2009 at 02:24 PM

yes... I have this one... AMAZING!

but such a pity that such a great player was not recorded - - - AND NO VIDEO OF HIM AT ALL!!!! THIS IS CRAZY SINCE HE DIED IN 1977.... IT IS NOT THAT LONG AGO!!!!!

suz_i_dil - 2-4-2009 at 03:09 PM

Indeed strange...moreover when I think of all those very old records from Tanbouri Cemil Bey.

I finally found the CD I was thinking about, you will fully satisfied your wish to discover this player with this album:
Udi Yorgo Bacanos
Traditionnal Crossroads, New York.

Edited in 1998.
http://www.traditionalcrossroads.com/

I'm sure it is from this label, but strange I don't find it in their website.

Melbourne - 2-5-2009 at 02:26 AM

Edward -

any photos from Maurice workshop??

love this post btw!

regards

Sam

Edward Powell - 2-5-2009 at 02:55 AM

....yes!
will post...

nothing too exciting however. . . .

his ouds sure sound great. I never played on such an amazing sounding arab oud. It is interesting because they are very very resonant, but the bracing is pretty heavy and the soundboard 2mm (which is relatively thick)....

adamgood - 2-5-2009 at 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Edward Powell
yes... I have this one... AMAZING!

but such a pity that such a great player was not recorded - - - AND NO VIDEO OF HIM AT ALL!!!! THIS IS CRAZY SINCE HE DIED IN 1977.... IT IS NOT THAT LONG AGO!!!!!

There are many many recordings of Bacanos playing masterfully in ensembles. Probably there are much more taksims recorded and Traditional Crossroads only gives a small taste.

By the way, the Traditional Crossroads CD...are those from radio broadcasts or were they released on 78s? I don't have the physical CD here to check.

I too think it's a real pity that no film has surfaced! There must be some in the TRT vaults? It's maybe a matter of time before something sees the light of day.

Actually I would argue to say he's one of the most if not THE most respected ud player(s) living in Turkey during the 20th century, especially among musicians. He possessed an incredibly high level of professionalism as a musician.

My teacher mentioned that Bacanos desired very much to be a pianist, check out his Hicazkar taksim he plays on piano, it's really scary!

best,
Adam

Edward Powell - 2-6-2009 at 01:36 AM

Hi Adam

Yes, I agree with you --- He is my favourite, or at least right up there.
By the way, who is your teacher? Necati gave me your email, and said you like in Holland - but I never got around to contacting you....... so, better late than never :wavey:

adamgood - 2-6-2009 at 02:52 PM

Hi Edward,
Yes, Necati is my beloved hoca

Please don't hesitate to email me.

I was living in Holland for about 4 years but moved to Berlin, Germany in August. I like the scene here for Turkish music...more like what I've been looking for.

Where are you?

Adam

Edward Powell - 2-6-2009 at 03:05 PM

Hi Adam...

Necati is a great musician and human also isn't he!!! Such a great soul.

I am in Cairo at the moment. I'm from Vancouver, but now live in Czech.
I will come visit you next time I'm in Berlin. Is there actually a Turkish music scene there?? Like, are there classical kemence and ney players???

adamgood - 2-8-2009 at 02:09 PM

Edward,
Please do let me know when you are visiting Berlin. I've only been here since August so I haven't seen everything but yes, there is a music scene here for Turkish classical music. There are at least two "amateur" (but good!) choirs here that rehearse twice per week...in fact just tonight I was at one concert, I play in the other choir.

Also there is a conservatory where one can study either classical or folk music. It's run by a very incredible udi named Nuri Karademirli. I've only had two lessons with him but just from those I gather what a master he is! So, if you come visit there is stuff to do.

No kemence players that I know of a maybe a handful of neyzens. One of them is now my friend and I think he's a very good player.

Yes Necati is an awesome soul!! I cherish every moment that I can spend with him and it's never enough, only days at a time.

Do you live in Prague? A neyzen friend of mine who lives in Bielefeld, DE told me of a neyzen (student I guess?) who he is pretty certain lives now in Prague. I can't remember the name! Want me to ask? It's someone with an either american name or he's from the british isles. Maybe you know who I'm talking about.

All the best to you

adam

Edward Powell - 2-8-2009 at 03:14 PM

Nuri Karademirli sure sounds good on the tube playing Targan's piece!

We will definitely get together next time i'm in berlin, Thanks!
Sounds like really a lot happening there! you are lucky!

I live more near Ostrava on the East side of Czech.... I so wish to have a kemence and ney nearby

mavrothis - 2-10-2009 at 03:38 PM

Hi,

Udi Yorgos is my favorite player of all time as well, for many reasons. Aside from his obviously amazing technique, his playing if full of thought and emotion, and often rhythm, which always gets me.

The only film footage I know of with him is on an old movie featuring Zeki Muren. The scene is not a live performance, but overdubbed, showing Bacanos and other famous musicians in a music studio backing up Zeki Muren as he sings a love song for the leading lady in the movie, who listens on the radio while they are performing...

Unfortunately, this is the only footage I know of, and painfully short and fleeting.

There are many recordings available of Yorgos Bacanos (Batzanos) though, many from radio performances. I think most of them can be found on http://www.tulumba.com.

Ahmad Fathi is also truly amazing, and I'm very glad I had the opportunity to meet him in his home in Cairo with Mike and Maurice Shehata several years ago. He was very nice, and played some beautiful music for us, even taking some time to show us some pointers on the oud along with giving some encouragement.

Take care,

m

sukru tunar, kadri sencalar, ismail sencalar on youtube

maran - 3-31-2009 at 01:26 PM

I had never seen video footage of any of these greats until I was shown this the other day by Kanuni Jack Chalikian. There's no mention of them anywhere in the information for the video but there they are, sukru and the sencalar brothers, right around the 0:58 mark. Apparently this is from a film. If anyone else has found any footage of the great old timers let me know:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IE-jlmuHOZU

eliot - 3-31-2009 at 02:49 PM

Some of the songs on Hafiz Kemal Bey's album (an archive re-release from Kalan Müzik Yapım) feature Yorgo's oud playing. Not the in-your-face virtuosic stuff, but very nice lyrical accompaniment to an amazing vocalist.

http://www.kalan.com/scripts/album/dispalbum.asp?id=4089

Probably available thru tulumba...

Edward Powell - 4-1-2009 at 01:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by maran
I had never seen video footage of any of these greats until I was shown this the other day by Kanuni Jack Chalikian. There's no mention of them anywhere in the information for the video but there they are, sukru and the sencalar brothers, right around the 0:58 mark. Apparently this is from a film. If anyone else has found any footage of the great old timers let me know:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IE-jlmuHOZU

...is that Yorgo playing oud at .58??
who are those other guys?
who is this singer? ---is she a Turkish OK?

mavrothis - 4-1-2009 at 05:42 AM

No, it's not Udi Yorgo. I believe the person who posted the clip mentioned that it is Kadri Sencalar, another great one from that era, with a totally different playing style.

You can also find recordings of Bacanos on Saydettin Kaynak's album, where he plays a good bit of ud, and also piano in one piece I think.

Take care,

m

adamgood - 4-1-2009 at 06:34 AM

by the way, Kadri Sencalar was the first kind of ud teacher for both Necati Celik and Nuri Karademirli.

Edward Powell - 4-1-2009 at 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by adamgood
by the way, Kadri Sencalar was the first kind of ud teacher for both Necati Celik and Nuri Karademirli.

any recordings of Kadri kicking around? I never heard of him!

maran - 4-1-2009 at 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Edward Powell

Quote:

Originally posted by adamgood
by the way, Kadri Sencalar was the first kind of ud teacher for both Necati Celik and Nuri Karademirli.

any recordings of Kadri kicking around? I never heard of him!

There were two Sencalar brothers, Kadri played ud and Ismail played kanun. I have some solo recordings of Kadri playing taksims and a few ciftetellis that I took from some 45s that came my way. I'll try to upload to a file sharing site.

Btw this cd has Kadri playing with Ahmet Yatman and others:

http://www.tulumba.com/storeItemSmlr.asp?ic=MU9399155VY898&

Actually even though this is an ud forum I have some recordings of Yatman that I want to upload because the guy was a frickin' MONSTER of the kanun

adamgood - 4-1-2009 at 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by maran

Quote:

Originally posted by Edward Powell

Quote:

Originally posted by adamgood
by the way, Kadri Sencalar was the first kind of ud teacher for both Necati Celik and Nuri Karademirli.

any recordings of Kadri kicking around? I never heard of him!

Maran, I'm pretty sure I have the same recordings of taksims and ciftetelis that you mention. I think I got it from Mavrothis. I keep misplacing it in my house, never ripped it to my computer and every 8 months it turns up again. Just a few days ago I saw it lying somewhere, now where's that darn CD?

Check out the attached photo, this was in Konya in 1972. A very young Necati Celik and Kadri Senceler. Playing Ayin or something? Abdi Coskun on tanbur in the front left.

Butrous - 4-1-2009 at 12:17 PM

Is this photo of a "sufi" event for tourist or foreigners?

maran - 4-1-2009 at 11:18 PM

I uploaded my Kadri files. These are from old 45s:

http://www.box.net/shared/aoooyc035n

Multi Kulti - 4-2-2009 at 03:26 AM

Thank you very much Maran for the files..

I must say Kadri Sencalar is one of my favourites for his style (a lot of piyaca in his playing).I always loved the way he analyzed his taksims...soulfull not only technik.

By the way i remember from a discussion i had with Yurdal Tokcan some years ago that he told me,when he was a student in University the teachers used to tell them not to follow the style of Sencalar because it was not "classical".

Classical or not it rocks

Nikos

maran - 4-3-2009 at 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Multi Kulti

I must say Kadri Sencalar is one of my favourites for his style (a lot of piyaca in his playing).I always loved the way he analyzed his taksims...soulfull not only technik.

Nikos

What do you mean by "lot of piyaca", like a street style or something?

I have recordings of Hrant playing those same two ciftetellis (Bahriye and Eski Istanbul). I uploaded them here:

http://www.box.net/shared/647tetuhfu

These are not available on any of the commercially available Hrant compilations. Listen to what he does at 1:57 of Eski Istanbul Ciftetelli. Also there's a Hicaz taksim, hicaz was his specialty.

Sorry we got off Bacanos here. I have some of him too (not commercially available) that I will try to post.

Multi Kulti - 4-5-2009 at 05:56 AM

Yes maran with piyaca (i dont know if i write it right..they call it like these the turkish players) i mean the "street style" but no in bad way.

Udi Hrant is one of these players too..very nice recordings you have there !
By the way this solo Eski Istanbul Cifteteli must be one of the favourites of Hrant. I have one or two recordings with the same "pattern" by him

always nice to listen to it.

Edward Powell - 4-5-2009 at 12:34 PM

Kadri Sencalar is really a great player! I had never heard of him before.
Is he a contemporary of Hrant and Bacanos? ...any others from this generation we should know about?

mavrothis - 4-5-2009 at 01:45 PM

Yes, I believe Sencalar was 1 year older than Bacanos.

I've heard that due to this seniority, and that Bacanos was considered a more technical player while Sencalar was seen as more emotive, that when Sencalar would come to a rehearsal or performance of the radio orchestra Bacanos would leave his ud and go to the piano (to make way for Sencalar).

Of course, I am very moved by Bacanos' playing, but I think I can see why some would prefer Sencalar's playing over Bacanos'. I personally love both, but am most impressed by Bacanos. This may be because Sencalar's playing is closer to what I'm familiar with, while Bacanos is something very unique, intense, and very clear in his interpretation of the makams.

mavrothis

Ararat66 - 4-6-2009 at 05:04 AM

Thanks for the Udi Hrant pieces, how can I get hold of these unavailable tracks and others.

I agree with Mav on Bacanos, there is something very individual and unique about his playing - its definately not just fast and technical as I have sen some people describe his playing and he gets under the skin of the taksims.

Leon

maran - 4-6-2009 at 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ararat66
Thanks for the Udi Hrant pieces, how can I get hold of these unavailable tracks and others.

I agree with Mav on Bacanos, there is something very individual and unique about his playing - its definately not just fast and technical as I have sen some people describe his playing and he gets under the skin of the taksims.

Leon

The tracks I posted here came from old 45s that either my grandparents brought here from Turkey when they immigrated or from other people who gave them to me because they were getting rid of their stuff and knew I would be interested. I have also been given some recordings from Kanuni Jack Chalikian who is the kanun player on the Richard Hagopian and Hachig Kazarian Kef Time albums. He has been a great mentor for me teaching me Turkish classical repertoire and Armenian traditional music (the 10/8s etc) which he knows very well (his parents knew Hrant from Adapazar and Hrant stayed in his house on his trips to the US from Turkey). He has a lot of recordings of the old timers though most of it needs to be digitized. But I think there is probably still a lot you can find if you ask around the community. For example recently my sister's in-laws gave me some stuff they inherited. It might be harder in the UK though.

Ararat66 - 4-6-2009 at 12:37 PM

Hi Maran
I'd love to hear some of those!! not so easy to find over here.

Leon

adamgood - 4-6-2009 at 10:14 PM

Maran, maybe those were 78s, not 45s? Wow man great if you have a collection going. It will be very worth it to digitize some day soon.

A few years ago I got into checking ebay for old 78s of Turkish music and in general it's all very expensive. Some Tanburi Cemil Bey would turn up...forget it, something like $150+ were the final prices. I'm relatively happy to have the CD reissues.

Marina - 4-6-2009 at 10:27 PM

Mav & anybody,
can you describe why the playing of Sencalar is "not classical". In Arabic oud playing it seems more clear to me - the line between folk player & classical one, but here I am not sure why is it "not classical".
Thanks

mavrothis - 4-7-2009 at 06:35 AM

Hi,

I don't agree that Sencalar's playing is not classical, whatever that really means. But what was said might have referred to his more liberal (not so strict) playing of makams - maybe not, maybe it was just referring to his playing style. Either way, I think it's a matter of opinion, not some general fact we all would agree on.

Though the well-known players of the early 20th century each had their own unique style, they all had a way of phrasing, pausing, etc that was similar. There seems to be an underlying style, or "accent" at least, from that time.

My opinion is that what modern players refer to as "classical" is really the playing style of Cinucen Tanrikorur, who came later and has influenced most of the contemporary players to a great degree.

I have a feeling that this is similar in Arabic music too. The fact is that folk, urban, and classical or court playing have always been intertwined until relatively recently - just take a look at Tanburi Cemil Bey. His playing and compositions were often very closely tied to folk music.

There definitely seems to be a prejudice against many of the great players of the past, because they are considered too "folky." But I think that this is a mistaken view, and one that hurts the general playing pool of musicians.

If we all try to sound like Tanrikorur, Celik, and Tokcan, then what's the point of playing at all? Why not try to emulate Bacanos, Nevres Bey, Sencalar, Hrant, Udi Ibrahim, etc...? I don't mean we should copy anyone completely of course (I don't even think that's really possible), but mixing in older styles can only enrich your playing, especially since folk, urban, and court/classical music were all a much more REAL part of everyday life then than they are now.

That's how I feel anyway.

m

Edward Powell - 4-7-2009 at 08:26 AM

Quote:

me2!!!
He is my fav!
I have analysed his taksims and slowed them down electronically and what is seems so special is that what he seems to be doing is something like Cinucen style with all the charpmas and full decoration, but at 78speed!
Rather, most "fast" players just do straight picking very fast and eliminate the stylistic decorations the faster they go.

Ararat66 - 4-7-2009 at 12:43 PM

I agree with you on this Mav - well, there is also this idea that 'old' means something dated and conservative but going back to Udi Hrant because I happened to be on a long car ride the other day on my own (so I can listen to what I want as loud as I want:xtreme

, on 'The early recordings volume 1' I was really struck by how 'way out' some of this stuff is. Once you get past the 'vintage' sound imagine what it would have been like face to face??

These guys were really exploring the tonal and particularly the modal paculiarities of the makams in astonishingly candid and avant garde ways. Two that struckme were his Suzinak Taksim and Saba Taksim.

There is no trickery here, no 'sound bytes' but real out-there exploration, when its so easy to get hung up on technical wizadry.

If you get a chance to hear these I recommend them also.

Leon