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SamirCanada
Moderator
Posts: 3404
Registered: 6-4-2004
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What do you think of Abadi's ouds?
Personaly I find that the sound on the oud he is using in the video page section Taqassim in Dubai 2003 is absolutely amazing. I might sound like Iam
telling you what you should like or dislike...but Iam shure many agree it has a beutifull sound. Your also right that we dont know what will hapen to
there sound 30 years or more from now..?
http://www.mikeouds.com/video/Abadi%20Taqsim.ram
And this is a live recording...
They do have different sound then Nahat. Its rather normal when they are typicaly egyptian ouds and the Nahat's have the syrian tonality. No doubt
there is a big difference in both and It just comes down to personal choice its about the type of sound you like. Like Dincer put it, people that want
my sound come to buy my ouds. I guess it would be the same for most makers.
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revaldo29
Oud Junkie
Posts: 418
Registered: 6-24-2004
Location: Atlanta, Georgia, USA
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Mood: inspired
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I'm with you 100% samir. I think that once the sound meets a certain standard of quality, good sound from that point is in the ear of the beholder.
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oudman
Moderator
Posts: 359
Registered: 5-31-2003
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Mood: No Mood.
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Id like to quickly respond to Brians post - especially this part " I wasn't implying that they are bad instruments, but they don't sound like Nahats
or Georges"
First of all, Shehata is an Egyptian, I dont think his goal is to have his ouds sound like Nahats - he wants them to sound Egyptian - like the sound
you hear when Sunbati plays. And thats what you get when you purchase a Shehata oud - you like, dont like, all a matter of opinion. That he doesnt
know much about sound production is nonsense.
Also, how are you comparing 70 year old instruments to a brand new instrument?
Furthermore, I have heard Ghadban ouds that do sound like Nahats. Keep in mind, he does not want every oud he makes sounding like a Nahat - he has his
own style and sound.
Finally, i dont think the solution is to have a Turkish luthier attempt to make an Arabic oud , pay double the price of an Arabic oud- (and from what
Ive heard from Simon and Najib, not do a great job)
I think a fair comparison would be between luthiers that are alive....
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Brian Prunka
Oud Junkie
Posts: 2916
Registered: 1-30-2004
Location: Brooklyn, NY
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Mood: Stringish
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I never said he doesn't know much, I said that he seemed not to have a very deep understanding. There's a huge gap between the two statements; mine
implies that he has some understanding, and possibly even a somewhat deep understanding, just not a very deep understanding.
It's a good point, though, that he's Egyptian and he could be designing the ouds perfectly to sound exactly the way they do. He perhaps has great
understanding and just wants a different sound; obviously there are excellent turkish makers who understand sound production but go for a Turkish
sound. So I'll recant that opinion.
I've heard many posts here where the Shehata ouds sound very good, but I didn't love the ones I've heard in person (one of which was a Nahat 'copy',
and sounded nothing like a Nahat). I liked them okay, but didn't love them. Sound on a recording is very different that real sound, the projection
is irrelevant and the microphone etc. all color the sound.
Why can't I compare old instruments to new instruments? I specifically said that the Shehatas are professional level instruments and are worth what
he charges, and that no one knows what they will sound like in time. If you could get a Nahat or Georges for the price of a Shehata, would you say
no? They cost a lot more, and I took that into account in my response. I don't care what a Shehata will sound like in 60 years, because I'll most
likely be dead.
I don't recall saying anything negative about Mr. Ghadban's ouds. And I didn't suggest having a Turkish maker make an Arabic oud.
You're right that a fairer comparision would be between living luthiers, but I wasn't trying to be fair--it does seem that Shehata is very highly
regarded in the forums and I knew that I would get flamed for saying I wasn't thrilled with his ouds. I think his reputation will be fine. As far as
living Arab luthiers go, Ghadban and Shehata are among the best that are relatively accessible in the US, and I think Ibrahim Sukkar deserves mention
as well. There are obviously others who are more obscure, and the Bashir-style makers are an entire category themselves.
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Greg
Administrator
Posts: 926
Registered: 7-22-2004
Location: Brisbane, Australia
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Mood: Serene
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A long post, sorry!
My dear fellow oud lovers, there is a recurring theme in many/most of the disagreements in these forums and that is how passionately we each feel
about our own instruments and the artists who make them. We are not ordinary folk, we choose to try to master one of the most difficult of
instruments. And for those of us raised with western music, the level of difficulty is even higher. So we are a bunch of passionate individuals.
Passion creates energy. That energy can create heat or light. Sometimes we see more of the former than the latter.
There are also members of these forums who are not only passionate about their own instruments, but they also resell instruments on behalf of one or
more makers. In some cases it would be reasonable to assume that the profit incentive may serve to heighten their already high level of passion.
If we cast our minds back over the past year or so, we could each remember several serious disagreements that have arisen as a result of these
passions. If we are to be perfectly honest with ourselves, we could probably also remember such incidents that have caused each of us to be become
annoyed and resentful. In most cases we, as individuals, have not entered the fray, but have harboured some ongoing ill-will that may bubble to the
surface at a later time.
So, a new member joins the forums and asks a perfectly reasonable question, such as, “I am enthralled by the sound of the Arabic (or Turkish)
oud and I want to begin learning. Where can I buy a good instrument at a reasonable price?”
The process begins –
Member, Fred Smurf, has been learning oud for a total of six months, but has a nice oud that he loves, so he jumps right in and writes, “The
best maker of Arabic ouds in the world is John Murray of Kalathumpia. His agent in the USA is Ye Old Oud Shoppe. Go for it, I can guarantee you that
you wont be disappointed.”
Perhaps a number of other members will make similar “recommendations.” Of course, in some cases, there will be members who, unlike Fred Smurf,
will be much more knowledgeable (and even-handed) and will provide details on a number of possible suppliers, together with an idea of price and
quality.
If we get too many Fred Smurf incidents on these forums, four things happen:
1/ The people making the initial inquiries come to a specialist forum to get expert opinion and do not get it.
2/ Several of the luthiers who could have provided a suitable instrument at a suitable price will not have had the opportunity to be considered (and
may even get angry at what they consider to be an unjust process).
3/ Several members who are passionate about the makers of their instruments, also get angry at the person or persons who have provided such
tunnel-visioned recommendations.
4/ Some of these members will try to redress the imbalance by promoting their own choice at every possible opportunity.
These forums are not the only source of information on our chosen instrument. An untold number of instruments were made and sold long before these
forums came into existence. And if the forums were to end tomorrow, ouds would continue to be made and sold. But as the forums do attract folks
looking for advice, I believe we should accept that we have a responsibility to provide the best possible information and to provide it in an unbiased
way.
I believe that we also have a responsibility to be even-handed and fair to all the wonderful artists who toil over these under-priced wonders.
I have a possible solution, but perhaps other will have a better one. Here’s mine;
A web page that lists all known makers. In my view, such a list should include information on the types of instruments made, the
general price range, the method of construction (luthier working alone, or with apprentices, or factory etc.), an approximation of how many ouds have
been made and sold, and so on. Each maker’s name could link to a separate page that, in turn, provides links back to maker-specific posts on these
forums.
This would not avoid ALL the passionate disputes over quality, but I believe it could help.
What do you think?
Regards,
Greg
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SamirCanada
Moderator
Posts: 3404
Registered: 6-4-2004
Member Is Offline
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Well said and good Idea. I see a lot of truth in what you wrote and I do agree that some of it might concern me (maybe I just feel guilty or maybe I
can identify with it). Iam shure others see what concerns them in there.
Thank you Greg.
I do think that such a page with accurate information would make it much less of a battle of who gets to dirrect the new members first so that they
get the sale or just to promote an instrument they own. And then we can have good hearted discutions about different ouds without getting into
arguments.
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David Parfitt
Oud Junkie
Posts: 629
Registered: 11-16-2003
Location: Devon, UK
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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Greg,
This sounds like an excellent idea. I have lost count of the number of emails I have received via my website from people looking for advice on which
oud to buy. I always point them to these forums for further information, but it would be nice to have a comprehensive list of oud makers with the kind
of information you indicated to save time searching through the forums.
Let's see what Mike thinks about the idea, and whether he thinks his site is the best place for such a list. If not, I am happy to make a dedicated
page on my site or expand the list of oud makers I already have there. This may be a good solution as my site covers both Arabic and Turkish ouds. I
am also not involved in buying or selling ouds, so this would preclude any accusations of favouring a particular oud maker.
All the best
David
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sydney
Oud Junkie
Posts: 579
Registered: 12-9-2003
Location: Down Under
Member Is Offline
Mood: Bastanikar
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congratulations Greg
This a great idea and must have taken a lot of thinking.
Very wise mate. 
David,
I do admir your offer of dedicating a page on your web site.
Good on you mate.
Kind Regards,
------------------
Emad
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farukturunz
Oud Junkie
Posts: 569
Registered: 8-16-2005
Location: Istanbul, Turkey
Member Is Offline
Mood: hopeful
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My last post
I am sorry for posting to this thread and causing it to last so long irrelevantly. I am also well aware that lack of direct relevance with the thread
in appearance caused confusion and pushed people in to amazement.
I am ultimatelly sorry for not staying still and silent whilst people attack to a new web site's owner and designer for thier appropriation from the
other sites even using the word "theft!". Where were these gentlemen I asked to myself when I corrected a false information given in the same place. I
just wanted to test their feeling of justice. Their capacity for discriminating true and false is not my real concern, but their ability to weigh and
estimate the real positions of the involving parts have failed. I pondered over for not writing any more, but this would be unfair and not explanatory
for those who have witnessed the thread. Besides, it is not acceptable such nonsense claims like "...im sure many people still wouldnt know who you
were if it werent for this site." for me as a maker who devoted his life to oud making art and made at least 800 oud so far. What an insulting claim
this is! If the forum (like all the individuals) has been aware of my presence this must not be due to forum itself, logically. If the forum claims
to be acting as an informative media, there isn't any possibility for it to turn a blind eye on an oud maker whose reputation is out of any
discussion. This recognition is now putforward as a favour by some gentlemen. OK they may see it up to an extend they can see. But for some one who
assumes all the others to be just, is it the other scale of balance to pretend not to see the lies while the other scale is said to be full of
predestination and benefit! My endeavour for understanding how an oud works and teaching it on every ground is a humble service in behalf of this
instrument and people who strive for making good ouds. I share my knowledge on my site and have shared it on every ground so far. What does this mean
to those people who try to insult me by some nonsense comments.
Any way I will not post any remarks or comments to this forum any more.
Thank you for your sensitiveness again.
With my warmest regards,
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David Parfitt
Oud Junkie
Posts: 629
Registered: 11-16-2003
Location: Devon, UK
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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Dear Faruk
It clearly states on my website that I own the copyright to the material on there, and hence it remains my intellectual property. The taking of my
property without my permission constitutes theft, so I am perfectly justified in describing it as such. It took me many hours to create my website, so
it makes me extremely angry when someone steals large chunks of it. Imagine if someone tried to pass off one of your meticulously crafted ouds as
their own work - how would you feel?
The owners of the Turkish oud website have informed me that the web designer they employed is responsible for stealing this material from my site.
They have also assured me that it will be removed, so we shall wait and see if they are as good as their word.
With my very best wishes.
David
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sydney
Oud Junkie
Posts: 579
Registered: 12-9-2003
Location: Down Under
Member Is Offline
Mood: Bastanikar
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| Quote: | Originally posted by farukturunz
Where were these gentlemen I asked to myself when I corrected a false information given in the same place. I just wanted to test their feeling of
justice. |
Master Faruk,
I would like to show my respect and admiration for your person as well as your art.
[SNIP]
Thanks to you and to anybody who isgiving their whole life to oud making.
(A SECTION OF THIS POST HAS BEEN REMOVED BECAUSE I CONSIDERED IT TO BE PROVOCATIVE AND COULD HAVE LEAD TO FURTHER DISPUTATION BETWEEN FORUM MEMBERS -
Greg, Moderator)
Kind Regards,
------------------
Emad
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Mike
Super Administrator
Posts: 1568
Registered: 12-3-2002
Location: California, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Happy
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This thread is officially closed. As Emad loves to always have the last word, we will give it to him.
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