| Pages:
1
2 |
Al Billings
Oud Addict
Posts: 46
Registered: 1-31-2004
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Oud Quality
Adel, thanks for your opinion. I've gotten a lot of advice about oud selection. In fact, I've been buying and playing handmade instuments
for over 30 years, and I know and communicate with some great builders. Here's what I think about the topic of oud choice.
I believe that in a general sense, instrument selection involves the same dynamics regardless of the instrument--in the buying process, it's all
the same. These days, it all seems to boil down to the buyer's needs and the builder's willingness to satisfy the them. Or does it? I
prefer dealing with builders who have strong opinions and direction, and who have a powerful sense of what they do best. I like builders who offer
specific models in specific ranges, and who offer options within those ranges.
It's not possible for a luthier to claim that every instrument he or she builds represents their gifts in its best light. Some models are always
a little more successful than others and I like luthiers who tell me what works best for them and then let me make a choice. This is not to say that I
won't custom-order--I've done a lot that as well, but it seems as though the most respected oud makers, like guitar makers, have given us
instruments that, while differing in various ways have something unique and powerful about them, somethings that, for instance, has so many players
seeking old Nahats, or Onniks, or what have you. I wonder if the Nahats put up with endless custom requests of if they mostly made what they made,
take it or leave it? Did players tell Stradivari how to voice their violins? I believe the best approach is to let the builder have the freedom to
express his art without a lot of interference from the player, other than personal physical requirements, and to then choose from these builders based
on reputation and when possible by playing their instruments. Further, I believe that there's a fine line between ordering a great instrument and
tinkering with the details so much that the instrument might not reflect the builder's strengths. Luthiers have complained mightily to me about
over-indugent buyers who hear think they hear tonal distinction at a level usually reserved for cats and dogs. I certainly support a buyer discussing
options of all sorts, but it's also important to let the builder give an honest opinion of whether or not that particular concept will really
work. There's great magic in telling a builder what you hear in your head and then letting the him choose the tone woods, bracing and details for
you, allowing the artist to really produce his art with a sense of freedom and authority. I had an acoustic guitar built recently, entirely designed
by the luthier except for the scale length, and he did a superb job.
As far as copies versus the real thing--what's real anymore? Performance requirements have changed, the sound of the instruments change with the
times, players alter their style according to contemporary influences. I could buy a nice Nahat copy and never have the chance to compare it to the
specific original it was meant to mimic. Old instruments can be terrific, but it's great to order a fine new instrument and break it in with your
own vibrations. We all search for the perfect instrument and rarely find it. I'd rather leave the details up to a builder I trust and spend my
time working on my oud playing, which needs all the attention I can give it!
|
|
|
Ronny Andersson
Oud Junkie
Posts: 724
Registered: 8-15-2003
Location: Sweden
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by nadir
isnt cedar wood better than all other woods for the soundboard though? what about rosewood?
how do these woods compare with pallisander spyros??
thanks in advance!!  |
Nadir, rosewood and palisander is the same wood. Popular names are many times very missleading. The same with cedar, the cedar guitar makers and some
western oud makers uses are not true cedar species from the middle east.
Best wishes
Ronny
|
|
|
Adel
Oud Maniac
Posts: 90
Registered: 12-7-2003
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Hi AL billings,
If you feel strongly about giving freedom to instrument makers to make their instrument for you, and you beleive by doing so you will get what you
want
Then I think you should make the right choice from the begining
I.e you should ask somebody who is cabable of making his own ouds and have a strong views about his instruments, somebody with his own voice, i.e when
you play his/ her ouds , you will say, yes this is such and such person....., and this will not come out from somebody who is copying ouds.
Go to Fathi amin, and he will make you his ouds, that when we play , every oud player will say, this is Fathi's oud, it's his mark.
Nahat is Nahat, Manol is Manol, Fadel is Fadel.
Think about it before you through your money away.
Good luck,
Adel
|
|
|
TruePharaoh21
Oud Junkie
Posts: 789
Registered: 3-17-2003
Location: California, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Loving the Oud
|
|
I gotta agree with Adel here. Also, Fathi Amin's ouds have very distinctive sounds to them, as he mentioned. His ouds are wonderful and playable
in the highest regard. If you want a good quality oud, go for him. His touch is the same on his ouds, as it should be.
TP21
|
|
|
Al Billings
Oud Addict
Posts: 46
Registered: 1-31-2004
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Oud Quality
Adel, isn't that what I just said?
|
|
|
spyros mesogeia
Oud Junkie
Posts: 896
Registered: 9-10-2003
Location: WASHINGTON DC
Member Is Offline
Mood: play my ouds
|
|
Dear frien Nadir you know my opinion about the woods....and you know that first of all I personally try the ouds and the quality of the ouds....
The competition is high and that is why we want to keep the standards high,we do our best about that.....
As for the orginal '''old'' ouds,my personal opinion is that I prefer something new with all the technological-engenearing
sound improvements,[braces ,bridges,matterials],and to keep all the good elements from the old ouds....I believe that the oud will be much more better
in the future...I respect the history but I can say that and the future is bright too....so I wouldn't give thousands of euros for a 100 years
instrument,because with those money,I can get some new good instruments now...I do not own a museum,and I am not a collector of old ouds....I like
them too,but I prefer the new ones....it is a matter of principle....
I will be very proud after some years when I will be old and ho knows untill than....maybe one of the actual oud makers that I own theyr instrument
will be a great Maker with reputation....
Here in Greece we respect the great Manol,that is what make the diference from all the other ouds....even and the turkish traditional oudmakers
believe that the Manol was and still is one of the greatest....
Lets not forget....
THE OUD IS A VERY OLD INSTRUMENTS AND THE INFLUENCES ARE MANY .... everybody use the principles that he saw and has in his tradition....it is not
something new,it is an evolution...but with all the respect that he owns....
We can't make something diferrent totally from these oudmakers,otherwise it has to be something totally diferent,and I don't think that it
will be oud anymore....That is my opinion.....
Ho knows????? heheheheh
|
|
|
spyros mesogeia
Oud Junkie
Posts: 896
Registered: 9-10-2003
Location: WASHINGTON DC
Member Is Offline
Mood: play my ouds
|
|
Dear friend Adel,
Do you really believe that a Dimitris oud or a Faruk Turunz,or a Sehata oud is ''through '' away of money?
Many great instrument players as Ross Daly,Haig Yazdjian,N.Saragoudas and many many others really apreciate our instruments[I am talking about our
instruments],
Do you really thing that they through theyr money away?
What I want to say is...Each person loves a quite -type of sound and instrument.......
But we don't have the right to say that the other oudmakers are waisting of money...... on each instrument they put a piece of theyr soul and
many many hours of hard work .....BELIEVE ME THAT IS ALOT...
The oud is like the flower....I like the parfum of the rose,and someone else loves the parfum of the carnation....
Dear friends,
The preferences are something personal....but the respect is something in comon...
Regards to all
Spyros Koliavasilis
|
|
|
nadir
Oud Junkie
Posts: 329
Registered: 12-29-2003
Location: USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Ronny:
thanks for clearing up all these different names for me and introducing me to a new perspective on cedars. maybe over here i can teach some people
another trick or two? 
|
|
|
nadir
Oud Junkie
Posts: 329
Registered: 12-29-2003
Location: USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Spyros:
i think that your opinion towards old ouds is suprisingly justified!! and just like you said too, the ouds nowadays ARE becoming better than the
ancient ones...
its probably better to collect better sounding ouds that are newer instead of old ones that you have to watch over 24/7, we also wouldn't want to
lose something like that on the metro like that $3 million violin!!
|
|
|
Adel
Oud Maniac
Posts: 90
Registered: 12-7-2003
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Dear Spyros,
You are an oud dealer, you are looking to sell your ouds. great, nothing wrong with this.
But, you have to know that the issue for me here is originality,i.e an oud maker who can speak for him/her self.
i know fathi can do this, I also know Moustafa in Istanbul can do this , not many of them are left unfortunately.
Many oud players still uses old Nahats and Manol, and they are very happy with them.
Many oud makers now a days has lost the essence of oud making, concentrating on the finish of the oud and not much left for the soul of the
instrument.
Any way a new oud will need up to 10 years for the sound to Mature.
I hope I am not offending anybody here.
Good luck,
Adel
|
|
|
spyros mesogeia
Oud Junkie
Posts: 896
Registered: 9-10-2003
Location: WASHINGTON DC
Member Is Offline
Mood: play my ouds
|
|
Dear friend Adel,
First of all I would like to tell you that I am not an oud dealer,I work as a medical doctor,and I don't have any profit of the oud....
I represent Dimitris because he is a very good friend of mine and he is the only Greek oudmaker that I personally know here in Greece and makes
quality instruments....
What is the most original oudmaker my friend...?This is a big question.....I personally can't answer that.....I owned many instruments from many
oudmakers,and I have the luck and the honour to be near to one of the greatest teachers here in Greece....So believe me I have seeing and touch and
play many good instruments all these years...
What we really want is not to see the other oudmakers as enemies,but as friends....the competition is something very good for this instruments....
As I said before ,I really judge the instruments that I have play untill today,and I owned and one of mister Mustafa's instruments....My teacher
knows him and personally,and I personally know many oudmakers....you see we are not enemies,we are friends...
As for the period that you have said of ten years I do not agree with you....I saw many instruments that they have shown theyr standards very quickly
and theyr owners still are satisfited,I own an Ejder that is 8 years old,it was my teachers oud....From the beggining was an excellent
instrument....
And as I said before....the new instruments gets your character...and you feel from the begining this relationship...I like that alot,and I really
prefer this relationship....
That is my personal opinion....
I am sure that you understand that if all the ouds were old....all the oudmakers wouldn't do anything progressive
My regards and my respect....
By the way....I like your cd's very much,I have one named Kanza,wonderfull,congratulations
|
|
|
billkilpatrick
Oud Junkie
Posts: 563
Registered: 1-3-2004
Location: italy
Member Is Offline
Mood: what?
|
|
grading an oud
"concert","professional", "semi-professional" and "study" are some of the classifications used for the
charango. terms like these are open to abuse, of course but something like that could be put in place by an honorable guild of oud makers.
or they could submit their products to an august panel of interested parties (like ME!) and try the "band stand" approach of "it's
got such-and-such a quality, i'll give it a 7." (n.b.: i never really understood what was so terrible about "payola.")
or...they could borrow some wine tasting terminology and describe their products as "insouciant little numbers" or "cheeky
chappies"
or...abandon restraint altogether and talk like real estate agents.
i'd like to think that price was a good indication of quality but i've never been reassured by inordinate expense or the pretensions of a
DIY carpenter cum instrument maker.
hope you sort something out. my wife bought me a box with a neck for christmas and there it sits...
sincerely - bill
|
|
|
| Pages:
1
2 |
![[*]](images/xmbprobrown/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
