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Peyman
Oud Junkie
Posts: 496
Registered: 7-22-2005
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Neat!  
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Jameel
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1672
Registered: 12-5-2002
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Video of the Cutting
Thanks! I cut a bit more of the rose and managed to take a video. It wasn't easy, as the camera was between my eyes and the rose. I'm using a Dewalt
scroll saw, and a 2/0 jeweler's blade on almost the slowest setting. It's relatively easy to follow the line when you don't have one hand occupied
with a jeweler's saw, and your mind occupied with keeping the saw moving and square to the workpiece. It's still exacting work, nevertheless, and
sucks brain power like finals week after a semester of skipping class! 
Shamsiyya Cutting
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mavrothis
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1674
Registered: 6-5-2003
Location: NJ/NYC
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Mood: big band envy
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Peyman
Oud Junkie
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I see what you mean Jameel.
How did you get the bone to cover all the rosette?
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Mike
Super Administrator
Posts: 1568
Registered: 12-3-2002
Location: California, USA
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Mood: Happy
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Jameelo,
Not only are you an extremely gifted craftsman, but also a pretty darn good videographer!
That was a great video, and it details just how tedious it is to cut that great shamseyya out. It took you two and a half minutes for that cut, and I
figure there are probably around 2 or 3 hundred more to go. I know I wouldn't have the patience for it. As usual bud...great job!
Take care,
Mike
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Jameel
Oud Junkie
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Peyman
I see what you mean Jameel.
How did you get the bone to cover all the rosette? |
You can get large slabs of bone from Jantz Supply (see page 6 of this thread). I sanded them flat and smooth, a uniform thickness, then edge glued
them together to form a large slab, sanded that smooth, and epoxied it to a piece of thin aircraft plywood (hobby shop).
| Quote: | Originally posted by Mike
Jameelo,
Not only are you an extremely gifted craftsman, but also a pretty darn good videographer!
That was a great video, and it details just how tedious it is to cut that great shamseyya out. It took you two and a half minutes for that cut, and I
figure there are probably around 2 or 3 hundred more to go. I know I wouldn't have the patience for it. As usual bud...great job!
Take care,
Mike |
Thanks, Mike. It wasn't easy cutting that with the camera in the way. I made a little mistake around the "flower" because of it--I cut past the line.
I won't be doing that again! I'm still cutting out the shamsa after about 7 hours so far........whew!
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Jameel
Oud Junkie
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Shamsiyya complete
Finished cutting it out.......
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Jameel
Oud Junkie
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SamirCanada
Moderator
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OMG!!!  Iam blown away... you must be tired of the bone dust and
smell.
God bless your hands master Jameel "Nahat" khalaf
Your on the final strech now. I cant wait to see it completed.
Its been a while since the thread was started but my gosh..Its been worth the wait. I goes to show that if you take your time your Ideas have time to
mature and come to life.
I wish you many years of happy oud building Jameel
Salam 3eidak ya batal ya ma3alem
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Peyman
Oud Junkie
Posts: 496
Registered: 7-22-2005
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Wow! Definitely shows how much time you spent on it... That's one awsome piece of art. 
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Sidi
Oud Maniac
Posts: 94
Registered: 2-6-2004
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Mood: Very Sad...
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Mabrouk Jameel!
Jameel has shown us once more, what a master craftsman he truly is.
Working with him on the calligraphy was a pleasure. He was patient, very open to my suggestions and above all extremely courteous...a great
gentleman indeed. I was often humbled by his kind words, and his genuine appreciation of the calligraphy.
Jameel puts a lot of soul into his work, and I did my best to match him as we worked on the calligraphy. Ever since we started, I had no doubt he'd
perform a surgical cut of this calibre...and I didn't hold anything back. The end result simply makes me proud.
Well done Jameel,
-Sidi
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Mike
Super Administrator
Posts: 1568
Registered: 12-3-2002
Location: California, USA
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Hey Jameelo & Sidi,
What a great shamseyya! You guys did a fantastic job. Jameel...you knocked that out pretty quickly. Very nice. I'm with Samir...can't wait to see the
finished oud.
Be well,
Mike
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LeeVaris
Oud Junkie
Posts: 379
Registered: 12-16-2003
Location: Los Angeles
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Mood: oud lover
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Wow
Fantastic...
I'm sure it will sound as good as it looks!
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Elie Riachi
Oud Junkie
Posts: 582
Registered: 4-9-2004
Location: Kansas
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Mood: Gebran Tueni Lives For Ever, 12-12-05.
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Jameel,
Very creative, clean and professional workmanship you bring to the craft of Oud making. This puts you on par with Norm Abram
Have you considered instruments restoration for a career!
A question what is the center of the Shams supposed to say?
Elie
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SamirCanada
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I can read Jameel / raij (raig) (Re Alif yeh jeh) / Khalaf
Iam not shure at all about the middle word.
maybe its something else I'll let Jameel or Sidi clarify
I hope this helps you estez Elie
samir
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Elie Riachi
Oud Junkie
Posts: 582
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Location: Kansas
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Mood: Gebran Tueni Lives For Ever, 12-12-05.
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| Quote: | Originally posted by SamirCanada
I can read Jameel / raij (raig) (Re Alif yeh jeh) / Khalaf
Iam not shure at all about the middle word.
maybe its something else I'll let Jameel or Sidi clarify
I hope this helps you estez Elie
samir |
Yeslamo ya ibn el ballad. Somewhere I am not seeing the "meem" unless it is the first letter in the first word, then that "jeem" all by itself at the
end of first line combined with the first word would form the name "Jameel." If so that is so clever and interesting how rules can be bent when it
comes to this art. If that wasn't the intention and the first letter in the first word, is supposed to be "jeem", then that word would read "jeel"
meaning "Generation". So is it "Jeel raj khalaf" or "Jameel ra khalaf"?
Either way it remains a very beautiful detailed piece of art, masterfully executed
Regards,
Elie
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Sidi
Oud Maniac
Posts: 94
Registered: 2-6-2004
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Mood: Very Sad...
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Hi,
Elie the words are "Jameel Raji Khalaf". In the word Jameel, the letter "meem" is attached right under the "Jeem". I didn't think many people
would find the word Raji confusing. The trick is to read the words in order: "Ra2 Alif Jeem Ya2". In arabic when two letters are attached, the
highest rightmost letter is read first. The "tail" of the "Ya2" does come in first (from the right), but the letter actually starts at the end of the
"Jeem", which is the higher of the two.
I'm sure Jameel has a few more surprises for us on this oud...stay tuned.
-Sidi
P.S: Thanks for filling in Samir.
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kasos
Oud Junkie
Posts: 148
Registered: 4-21-2005
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Just beautiful... I wish I could contribute something by way of technical comment on this, but all I can say is that this work is inspiring. Mark
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Jameel
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1672
Registered: 12-5-2002
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Thank you all....
....for all your nice comments. I really appreciate you taking the time to write responses to this thread. It's encouraging. I have been working on
this oud for well over a year now, and I can't tell you what an experience it has been so far. I've had so many ideas to consider, so many elements to
decide on, so many sessions in my shop of trudging through small aspects in order to do the more dramatic parts. It's been trying at times, and I'm so
eager to brush on that first coat of finish, I can't tell you. This thread has kept me from cutting corners in order to finish the oud, and I'm glad
for it. I really feel like I'm making a sort of tribute to the Nahat family on this one, since I'm trying to make it as "Nahat" as possible. I'm not
incorporating much of my own designs, and trying to keep in the Nahat spirit without outright duplcating an existing Nahat. Getting close to end is
also a bit sad, since I may not be able to make another oud for quite a while after this one, since I have put off other more important personal
projects that will soon need attention. I don't have pics to post now, but I did get the soundboard glued on this week, and the edge cut away for egde
tiles, which I hope to begin installing tomorrow.
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Dr. Oud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1370
Registered: 12-18-2002
Location: Sacramento, CA, USA
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Mood: better than before
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| Quote: | | Originally posted by Elie Riachi... This puts you on par with Norm Abram:.... |
Jameel surpasses Norm both not only in his cabinet making but leaves Norm in the dust with his creativity. I haven't seen Norm do anything original,
he seems to be a spokesperson for corporate power tool makers, making copies of antiques or restoring houses. Houses and furniture are crude examples
of woodworking compared with makiing a musical instrumet. Many guitar makers I have shown the oud to were amazed by the delicacy of the construction.
The accuracy and control necessary to make an oud are the most demanding of all. There is very little room for error and recovery since the
instrument requires you to build right up to the edge of structural integrity. I can testify that Jameel is not only innovative in his execution, but
his artistic design of this oud as well as his other woodworking is beyond comparison. Then there's his painting. My wife is a gifted painter herself,
and we have visited many museums of masterworks over the years and I can say that we both were blown away by Jameel's painting. Jameel is an artist of
the very highest caliber, please don't demean his talent by comparing him to a commercial craftsman.
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Peyman
Oud Junkie
Posts: 496
Registered: 7-22-2005
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| Quote: |
Jameel surpasses Norm both not only in his cabinet making but leaves Norm in the dust with his creativity. |
Actually I was thinking that maybe Dr. O or Jameel can do a DIY special on Oud making. They have a handmade music series that airs Sunday nights.
That would be very interesting!
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Elie Riachi
Oud Junkie
Posts: 582
Registered: 4-9-2004
Location: Kansas
Member Is Offline
Mood: Gebran Tueni Lives For Ever, 12-12-05.
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Dr. Oud
| Quote: | | Originally posted by Elie Riachi... This puts you on par with Norm Abram:.... |
Jameel surpasses Norm both not only in his cabinet making but leaves Norm in the dust with his creativity. I haven't seen Norm do anything original,
he seems to be a spokesperson for corporate power tool makers, making copies of antiques or restoring houses. Houses and furniture are crude examples
of woodworking compared with makiing a musical instrumet. Many guitar makers I have shown the oud to were amazed by the delicacy of the construction.
The accuracy and control necessary to make an oud are the most demanding of all. There is very little room for error and recovery since the
instrument requires you to build right up to the edge of structural integrity. I can testify that Jameel is not only innovative in his execution, but
his artistic design of this oud as well as his other woodworking is beyond comparison. Then there's his painting. My wife is a gifted painter herself,
and we have visited many museums of masterworks over the years and I can say that we both were blown away by Jameel's painting. Jameel is an artist of
the very highest caliber, please don't demean his talent by comparing him to a commercial craftsman. |
Good Doc, I meant it as a compliment. What is wrong with earning a living building good ouds wehther they are faithful copies of Nahats or origional
recreation of what a Nahat maybe? The disgrace is in those cheap ouds that people end up buying.
Regards,
Elie
Elie
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Elie Riachi
Oud Junkie
Posts: 582
Registered: 4-9-2004
Location: Kansas
Member Is Offline
Mood: Gebran Tueni Lives For Ever, 12-12-05.
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Peyman
| Quote: |
Jameel surpasses Norm both not only in his cabinet making but leaves Norm in the dust with his creativity. |
Actually I was thinking that maybe Dr. O or Jameel can do a DIY special on Oud making. They have a handmade music series that airs Sunday nights.
That would be very interesting! |
Jameel, would you call your show "The New Lebanese Workshop"? not jokcking. 
Great idea Peyman.
Elie
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Jameel
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1672
Registered: 12-5-2002
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Elie,
Thanks. I appreciate the compliment. Actually, though, Richard is right about Norm. Back in the "old days" of the Interent, I was a member of several
old tool groups, guys that specialize in hand-tool work, and they were not fans of Norm. They call themselves "galoots", and look down on Norm. Norm
is really a master carpenter, not a cabinetmaker or furnituremaker. But I still like him. I'm not a purist by any means, but Norm would do well to
promote some more use of handtools, and real woodworking. I personally use a combo of both, as do most woodworkers. I actually learned woodworking
with powertools from both of my grandfathers who liked to watch Norm towards the ends of their lives. I learned a ton from those old tool groups, and
cut my handtool teeth on my grandpa's old hand plane over 13 years ago. It was an incredible experience taking see-thru shavings with a handplane for
the first time. I like Norm, and still watch him from time to time. But frankly, his show is the same every week. Build something different using the
same tools and techniques. Rarely does he show you how to actually do something by hand. His show is more like a video instruction for a set of
furniture plans, for a given piece. A show I enjoy more is The Woodwright's Shop with Roy Underhill, which I think is no longer produced. This guy is
at the other end of the spectrum, no power at all, well electricity at least. He never really made anything large or fancy, but rather dedicated each
show to making simple things with hand tools only. He'd mount the video camera to the plane or chisel, right near the cutting edge so you could see
exactly how it worked. Another show that I don't get in my area but have seen a few times is American Woodshop with Scott (don't remember his last
name). He was a good balance between power and hand tools, and his show was more interesting, with special guests, visits to other shops etc.
Since we're talking about making a living building ouds, I have a question for you all.
A few conditions first. Say this oud turns out sounding nice. Not exceptional, but a good, professional-sounding arabic oud that any good player,
professional or otherwise would be happy to own and play. And given that you've seen 95% of the complete instrument (fingerboard is all that's left,
and it will be inlayed), and pretend for a moment that I'm an established oud maker, what do you think, or rather, what would you be willing to pay
for it? I want your unvarnished opinion, be honest, realistic. Since I don't make ouds professionally, and don't have a reputation, I won't be
insulted or offended. Heck, I might even be surprised.
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SamirCanada
Moderator
Posts: 3405
Registered: 6-4-2004
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Dear Jameel,
on the topic of making ouds for a living. I have enjoyed everysingle bit of developement of you making this oud. I really admire how there was no rush
in attempting to complete the oud prematuraly. The main problem for making a living with ouds in the us say.. is that if you have another job to
suport a decent lifestyle in america that doesnt really leave you much time to work on a oud wich is why I think this project is over a year into.
None the less Iam shure that when you would start working on the oud it makes you get away from the stress of work etc.. so it would be like
something to look forward to do on the weekend. A oud that takes over a year to make is definetly worth a lot and the problem with that is that it
could be worth to much to be afforded. I think there is a trade off to be made between the amount of hours put on one single instrument and the amount
of instruments you can produce during the year. I mean... there could be great risks in leaving your carrer to build ouds full time. So to concider
making a living out of it is possible but living somewhere like in the middle-east would make it easy to pull a living out of it. The only way to be
shure would be to save it for retirement. But I really encourage you to keep at it part time. You this great talent that needs to be put to work but
its understandable that there are other things that you cannot neglect. You could present it in an auction or something but In my opinion to give you
some guide lines this oud should pull in about 2000$ and maybe up to 3500$ wich I hope it does in the end because thats what I think it could be made
of. The other thing is that you dont know how good your ouds will sound in 75 years. The Nahat family members looking down from the sky must be goin
crazy. There ouds now are worth thousands of dollars and some are even priceless. I doubt that its what they retailed at when they were alive. Same
goes for paintings I guess.
Regards
Samir
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