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jenni
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Why must one play with a risha?
I had a friend over the other day who plays classical guitar, and he started playing my oud with his fingernails! It didn't sound as nice to me, and
I was trying to explain to him that you don't do that on the oud. So why exactly is it that you must use a risha? I imagine it is the amount of force
it allows you to play with? To me it simply didn't have the same sound, but how do I explain why to someone who knows virtually nothing about the
style?
Thanks,
Jenni
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ameer
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I know at least one of the factors is the sonic response of paired versus single strings; pairing up two identical strings at the same pitch dulls the
inherent attack of the sound a bit. I don't know if it's the force, angle, or what, but the risha manages to compensate for this while still producing
a unique sound.
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Aymara
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Hi Jenni!
In my opinion, it is not a MUST, but a matter of taste, if you use a risha and especially which kind (material and shape) of risha you choose.
At the end of last year we had a very long thread about different risha types and how they affect the sound ... the conclusion was, that to the liking
of most people here a risha made of buffalo horn sounded best.
I myself use two very different picking techniques, depending on the desired "mood":
1. I use a turkey feather's quill as risha,
2. I pick the strings with my fingertips (not the nails), similar to the medieval lute players.
The second technique gives a very warm bassy sound on the wound strings.
Greetings from Germany
Chris
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David.B
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Hi jenni,
Why don't you play his guitar with your risha and see what he thinks ?
Medieval lutes use "chœurs" (pair of two identical strings at the same pitch) without risha technique.
I think everything is interesting, I asked for the medieval lute players technique during an exhibition. A woman showed me how to play with "le gras"
(the fat) of 3 fingers (thumb index and middle). Interesting alternative sound... but I gave up because the little space between strings drove me
crazy  Chris you're more patient than I am !
The risha is important, the harmonic node you pluck too.
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Aymara
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Hi David!
Quote: Originally posted by David.B  | | ... but I gave up because the little space between strings drove me crazy
Chris you're more patient than I am ! |
Mmh ... maybe I just have more slender fingers? That theory comes to my mind, when I read your statement about the space between the strings. Did you
mean the space between the courses or between the strings of one course?
BTW ... Jenni, HERE's the link to the risha discussion, I mentioned.
Greetings from Germany
Chris
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David.B
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Hi Chris, long time ago (full time job + music) 
I mean between courses, of course 
I've forgotten courses for "choeur"...
To complete the link up above (now I know where comes from Aymara !) the link about the harmonic nodes (for fingers or risha or whatever) :
http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=10167#pid68...
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Aymara
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Maybe try it again ... I think it's worth it. On Youtube I noticed, that many players use the fingertips for quiet smooth notes ... they hold the
risha with the little and the ring finger meanwhile.
Yes, my parakeets
Greetings from Germany
Chris
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jdowning
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Where is the evidence to support the idea that medieval lutes were played with fingertips? The iconography seems to confirm otherwise - i.e. that the
early European lutes were played with a risha - like the oud.
The earliest printed lute tablatures confirm that even during first part of the
16th C both risha and fingertips were used particularly in duet playing where the player using a risha would play a fast monophonic melodic line over
a harmonic polyphonic ground provided by the other player using fingertips. It is said that one of the famous Italian lute virtuosi used metal picks
attached to thumb and first finger - there is nothing new in this world!
The earliest fingertip style of lute playing - the so called 'thumb inside' technique used by many professional lute players these days (completely
different from the classical guitarists right hand technique) - seems to be a transition from risha technique where the lute player uses thumb and
forefinger alternately to pluck the strings - the hand held almost as if the risha had been taken away leaving only the fingers tips to do the job.
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spyblaster
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well... i dont agree with the "MUST" either. as we have seen a lot of masters usin' thier nails. the style i like is using the pick n nails together.
as a lot of guitarists use both the pick n nails. but whatever i do, i still prefer to have the pick in my hand.
The Oud is my life, n my life is the Oud
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Aymara
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Hehe, shure
But who cares ... interesting for this discussion is, that there are "new" means of expression, if we don't always play with a risha, be it playing
with the fingertips or the nails.
Greetings from Germany
Chris
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mrkmni
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I think the fingernails do nopt give the real sound of the oud... It needs force to get the sound.
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jdowning
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You reckon that you pick the strings with "fingertips (not the nails) - similar to the medieval lute players"?
So, where is the historical evidence in support of this statement Aymara?
Just curious.
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Aymara
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Usually YES, but as said before, it's not uncommon nowadays, that even famaous oud players use different techniques sometimes, like fingernails or
fingertips ... even chords are played, though seldom ... just a matter of personal expression in playing.
Ok, I have to correct myself ... I rechecked, what the German Lute Association documented:
In the middle ages the lute was mainly played with a feather (risha) and "fingerpicking" started in Renaissance.
Greetings from Germany
Chris
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David.B
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This thread starts to get interesting !
First of all, to ameer, the best video I found where you can see the technique of the right hand on courses :
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x21pdf_dufaut-sarabande-et-double-...
But this (archi)lute is not medieval. Your right jdowing, this technique came after the XVe century. I found a great video (sorry it's French) where
you can see a sort of risha at 01:34 (image) and 17:10 (live) :
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xa6nnc_instruments-a-cordes-au-moy...
Also a feather at 00:55 (image) :
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xa6ntu_instruments-%C3%A0-cordes-a...
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Aymara
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Hi again,
regarding the original question, two further things came to my mind ... to make oud teachers mad 
1. Naseer Shamma's finger tapping technique,
2. Awad Ahmodi's unusal risha technique and his use of chords.
Greetings from Germany
Chris
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fernandraynaud
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You can make sounds with anything, and a lot of sounds on strings are common to many instruments. But each instrument has only a relatively narrow
range of unique character sound that cannot readily be duplicated on another instrument. On the oud that's the sound of double strings on a fretless
fingerboard wrist-snapped or tremolo'd with a flexible plectrum called a Risha or Mizrab. Nothing like it on a guitar or a lute. So an answer is
"because it's what only an oud sounds like".
Another issue is that finger-picking is most suited to concurrent harmony, polyphonic music with chords. It's no coincidence that it appeared when it
did. The harmony of traditional oud music is sequential, i.e. coming from a monophonic line, and best elicited with a risha. It's the whole approach
and technique that goes with it.
So if you play both, use both. A lute sounds different. It's not easy to play John Fahey style with a risha, and it's hard to tremolo with your
fingers. I think only a risha sounds unmistakably oud.
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jdowning
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Thanks for the links David B - I shall view them later today.
The Dufaut performance demonstrates a right hand style that prevailed much later than the early renaissance style. Here the thumb is held out (to
reach the numerous bass strings) and the hand is held across the strings - plucking the strings rather like a classical guitar player (but without use
of the fingernails). In the early Renaissance style the right hand is held almost parallel to the strings using thumb and forefinger to strike the
strings alternately - the downward thumb stroke producing a more powerful sound than the weaker upstroke of the forefinger - creating an important
rhythmic effect.
The problem in trying to get to grips with music of the Medieval period is that no instruments survive and there is little or no guidance about
performance practice etc. So much has to remain as speculation.
Nevertheless, when the oud was fretted, I for one would like to imagine that it might well have been played polyphonic style with fingertips (on
occasion) rather than essentially monophonic with a risha.
There is some evidence that the Arabs were first to introduce polyphonic playing of instruments (organum) ahead of the Europeans although whether or
not this applied to the oud or only to other kinds of instruments is not clear to me. This style of playing (tarkib) is mentioned in several early
manuscripts including that of Ibn Sina who, according to Dr G.H. Farmer "unmistakably describes the performance of the simultaneous consonance of the
fourth, fifth and octave" - this passage appearing in the practical part of the treatise.
Use of a risha or plectrum tends to produce more upper partials in a tone than fingertips - which might have been a particular advantage in the past
when the oud (and lute) were strung with gut or silk - overcoming, to a certain extent, the inherent 'dullness' in sound of the thicker bass strings.
This problem was later partly solved for lutes (that were played with fingertips) by using octave tuned basses (i.e. one of the strings being thinner
and tuned an octave higher than the other string of the pair). This added some brightness to the sound of the basses and resulted in a different sound
characteristic than would be heard on lutes of a later period.
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David.B
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Did you check the video at 17:10 ? The technique and the position are practically the same. I'm sure if we dig a little bit we could find an
equivalent for Naseer's technique... Nothing new under the sun, it seems 
Tony, you perfectly wrote what I thought but too messy for me to express it clearly (harmony, polyphony vs melody, monophony). And to stick on the
subject we can see the progression from Middle-age to Baroque through Renaissance with this adaptation of a melodic instrument into a harmonic one :
As you say jdowning, the early Renaissance players used their thumb to create an important rhythmic effect... closed to our karar isn't it ?
Because of our conversation I listened to Paul O'Dette this morning and a question is rising in my mind : Do the red strings and the silver ones are
an octave tuned basses ?
http://www.harmoniamundi.com/artists?view=bio&id=35#/artists?vi...
(click on the image to enlarge)
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Aymara
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Mmh, the Ahmodi video is only 3:59.
| Quote: | | Do the red strings and the silver ones are an octave tuned basses ? |
Yes, on some lutes the bass courses are tuned in octaves like on 12-string guitar, the other courses identical like on the oud.
Greetings from Germany
Chris
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jdowning
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For some unknown reason David.B I have not been able to view the Paul O'Dette image.
However, if he was performing an early 16th C lute piece then the basses would have been octave tuned. By the end of the 16th C string technology in
Europe had developed to the point where unison tuned basses were being used.
Interestingly, in Spain unison tuned basses were being used for the vihuela at an earlier time than the lute - implying that the Spanish at the time
had access to a superior string technology (silk strings from the oud traditions perhaps?).
Paul O'Dette (among other professional lutenists) is an outstanding practitioner of the early lute 'thumb under' right hand technique - demonstrating
the high speed of execution that is possible (for a virtuoso player) using this method.
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David.B
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No, I'm talking about my video :
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xa6nnc_instruments-a-cordes-au-moy...
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Aymara
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Aah, you mean the combination of risha and fingerpicking?
Greetings from Germany
Chris
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jenni
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Thank you for all of your responses! I thought they would go to my email (I was wondering why I hadn't gotten any yet LOL) which is why I haven't
replied back to anyone.
Just today my teacher was telling me that my big plastic rishas are not very good, because they don't go back to the orginal position quickly enough
after plucking, and a risha made from something like buffalo horns does.
"Why don't you play his guitar with your risha and see what he thinks ?" - he told me it sounded more "natural" to him on all string instruments to
not use a pick/risha, because he can always tell when someone is using it. What my teacher told me today is that with a buffalo risha you cannot hear
it -it's just strings.
"You can make sounds with anything, and a lot of sounds on strings are common to many instruments. But each instrument has only a relatively narrow
range of unique character sound that cannot readily be duplicated on another instrument. On the oud that's the sound of double strings on a fretless
fingerboard wrist-snapped or tremolo'd with a flexible plectrum called a Risha or Mizrab. Nothing like it on a guitar or a lute. So an answer is
"because it's what only an oud sounds like". "
I really like this answer, I think that's what I was trying to explain to my friend, but not so eloquently
Also, all of this talk about medieval lute players' techniques... didn't the oud come first anyway? I know it was long ago, so we can't know for
sure, and it's relevant to the discussion... but somewhat of a poor argument as to why one might use fingertips . correct me if i'm wrong
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jdowning
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Thanks for the image of O'Dette Dave.B. The lute that he is holding is not a Renaissance lute but one from a later period (18th C).
A lute from the early Renaissance would have only 6 courses (or 5) with basses tuned in octaves and played with a 'thumb under' right hand technique.
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Aymara
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Hi Jenni!
You forgot to subscribe to this thread ... you can do it above your opening posting ... if you do, you'll get a notification email for each
new answer. But you have to read the answers here in the forum.
| Quote: | What my teacher told me today is that with a buffalo risha you cannot hear it -it's just strings.
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That was the conclusion in the risha thread too. But I think a feather's quill comes very close to that sound ... it's of a similar material
| Quote: | | ... didn't the oud come first anyway? |
Yes, the oud is the "father" of the European lute. But I mentioned the lute, because this is the instrument where fingerpicking was used earlier as on
oud ... as it seems.
But who cares, I think important for this thread is, that there are different string plucking techniques available as are different risha types ...
different material, different thickness/elasticity, different shape ... and all create their own individual sound, which we can use as our means of
expression or not, just to our liking.
| Quote: | | ... but somewhat of a poor argument as to why one might use fingertips. |
Read again, what I wrote ... I didn't mean, that one should use fingerpicking, because lute players did it in the past and do it still today ... I
mainly wanted to say, that even some of todays famous oud players use this technique sometimes as a means of expression. That this has a historical
background was more a side note.
Greetings from Germany
Chris
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