Johnnyboy
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Question about sanding...
Hello fellow oudplayers,
The fingerboard of my oud has been severly wearing off beneath the 2d and the 3rd course strings leading to a very annoying buzz when pushing down on
those strings (especially when playing the E and the F on the 3rd string).
Now, I've been searching through this forum and I've found out that sanding the fingerboard could help this problem. I've got a theory though about
this that has been bugging me for quite a while:
When you sand the whole fingerboard, doesn't this increase the distance between the strings and the fingerboard? Because if it does, then pressing the
notes on any string will lead to a higher tension of the pressed string (because of the increased distance to the fingerboard) leading to slightly
higher pitches of the pressed notes of that string. The pitch when striking any string while it's loose won't change though, it's just when pushing it
down for the other notes. This leads to a distorted sound scale from what I know, unless you ofcourse move your "press"locations for these notes a
little bit to the left (when you're right handed).
I was wondering if my little theory is correct or not, even if the the pitches of the pressed notes changes microtonal. Am I concluding this in the
right way or not? Can someone verify this for me?
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Aymara
Oud Junkie
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Hi!
Quote: Originally posted by Johnnyboy  | | The fingerboard of my oud has been severly wearing off beneath the 2d and the 3rd course strings leading to a very annoying buzz ...
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Mmh, the second course, which is a pure nylon string course? Usually this happens below the wound strings.
What kind of wood is the fingerboard made of? A photo might be helpful to see, how deep the grooves are and what kind of wood it is.
| Quote: |
Now, I've been searching through this forum and I've found out that sanding the fingerboard could help this problem. |
Yes, especially THIS discussion might be interesting.
| Quote: |
When you sand the whole fingerboard, doesn't this increase the distance between the strings and the fingerboard? |
Yes, it raises the string's action by the amount you sand down the fingerboard.
| Quote: | | Because if it does, then pressing the notes on any string will lead to a higher tension ... |
No, the tension only depends on the string's length and gauge, as far as I know. But a higher action makes it more difficult to play fast.
But let me ask, how deep the grooves are, that you think of such potential problems?
What kind of fingerboard do you have, a short one, that ends at the neck-body junction or a long one that goes down to the upper sound hole?
Maybe you should let a luthier do the job? He could replace the whole fingerboard with one made of ebony, which is a that hard wood, that you don't
encounter this problem again (at least for many years). Even a good guitar or violin luthier should be able to do this, if no oud luthier is available
in your region.
A further though might be closing the grooves with a wood crack filler and varnishing the fingerboard as discribed in the above linked discussion. But
this is pure theory ... it would be interesting to know, what the luthiers in the forums think about this idea.
Greetings from Germany
Chris
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Johnnyboy
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Hey Aymara thanks for your answer. Here are mine for your questions:
What kind of wood is the fingerboard made of?:
It's a Maurice Shehata Oud, the fingerboard is made from rosewood from what I read (I'm not sure though).
How deep are the grooves?: I think they're not more than a 1 mm deep.
What type of fingerboard?:
It's a fingerboard that goes down to the upper sound hole.
As for having grooves beneath the 2nd string course, yeah I didn't expect that too. I guess I'm a die-hard oudplayer? :P
As for your answer about my theory: So the pitches of the pressed notes won't be a bit higher? I know what you mean about the tension of a string.
What I mean is when you push down a string for a note, pressing it farther to the fingerboard (because of the increased distance after sanding it)
makes the pitch of that note higher. But then again, you could lower the strings by pushing it down at the end of where it is tied to on the face of
the oud.
I'm not sure whether the grooves will really cause such big problems or not when I will sand them. It's just that they make some real annoying buzzing
sounds that I really need to get rid of. I'll try to take a picture later on and post it to give you a better idea about the problem.
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Aymara
Oud Junkie
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Then I highly recommend to contact Maurice about the problem. From what I read about him here in the forums, he's a very helpful man.
| Quote: | | So the pitches of the pressed notes won't be a bit higher? |
I don't think so, because we have many people in the forums, who have a Sukar oud with an adjustable neck. That means, you can adjust the action
(hight of the strings). Nobody mentioned pitch changes. Contact FernandRaynaud by U2U, because he adjusted the action of his Sukar Model 1 and can
tell you, if the pitch changed after that.
| Quote: | | I'll try to take a picture later ... |
Have a look, if your camera has a macro mode, so that you can take a close-up photo. If not, the photo would be unsharp at close distance, because the
minimum distance without macro mode is usually about 50cm.
Greetings from Germany
Chris
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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
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Johnnyboy, welcome! Yes, I happen to read this forum, "now and then" 
First of all, Maurice is definitely the person to consult.
Second, a 1 mm groove is quite deep. I rather suspect yours are a bit shallower. If you do have enough fingerboard material to sand it down that far
(most fingerboards are a thin board or sometimes even a veneer), you would of course have to lower the nut as well. You could never play the oud well
unless you do that, the string height above the fingerboard at the nut should be about 1 mm, certainly not 2mm. Most nuts are shimmed to set exact
string height, after the grooves are made, and held in place with a dab of glue. So, you are going to lower the fingerboard and keep the string height
about the same. That's why nothing significant changes when you plane and level the fingerboard.
On a Sukar, where you can adjust the angle of the neck to the soundboard at the neck-body junction, little adjustments might be made just to change
the timbre, and there's never any issue. Think of it as a rotation. There's no change in string length, or tension. But in any case, you don't play
oud mechanically, you play by ear. Any change in intonation that might conceivably ever occur will be compensated by your brain as you play.
Your deeper question is what to do with your "canals". Allow me to say in
passing, and contrary to tradition, that only fingerboards made of the best ebony will escape your Shehata's fate, and so all others would be better
if coated (not "varnished") soon after the oud is acquired. That's a hard one to swallow. Your options at this time include:
filling with a mix of sawdust and cyanoacrylate and then coating the whole fingerboard with cyanoacrylate (the customary fix involves making deeper
grooves to give the filler an "anchoring"). A bit like dentistry.
filling with some other filler, sanding a bit and adapting to the situation "seat of the pants". For instance gluing a layer of ebony veneer over the
now level fingerboard.
planing and sanding down to a level fingerboard, and adjusting the nut. This is the traditional way if the fingerboard is thick enough. And it's a
relatively common operation on an oud (or a fretless bass guitar). After a few levelings, the fingerboard has no "reserve" left and has to be
replaced.
gluing a thin fingerboard on top of the existing one, and raising the nut. That's also useful to lower the action, as long as there is enough
clearance so strings don't buzz or slap. It's not easy to make the sides of the neck look perfect, as the original fingerboard often has a rounded
edge.
We all wish you best success. Maurice will undoubtedly take care of your problem.
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Johnnyboy
Oud Maniac
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Thanks a lot for fernandraynaud and Aymara for your very helpful answers!
As for the grooves, I'm not sure if they're really that deep, I could be exaggerating :P. Unfortunately, I can't upload the pictures I made because
the resolutions are too high.
Fernandraynaud: So you're actually saying there IS a change in pitch if the distance between the strings and the fingerboard changes but that the
brain will adjust this for you to make it sound right?
I think I'm going to Egypt soon to see Maurice then now that I know he's very helpful . Again, thanks a lot for your help guys!
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Aymara
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Resize them or cut out the relevant portion with IrfanView, which is freeware (for private use).
| Quote: | | I think I'm going to Egypt soon to see Maurice ... |
The best decision you could make in my opinion ... maybe contact him by mail before.
Greetings from Germany
Chris
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fernandraynaud
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For what it's worth, there is no change in pitch, for one thing because when you lower the fingerboard you have to lower the nut.
Trip to Egypt sounds good.
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