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Author: Subject: My first oud
faggiuols
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[*] posted on 10-14-2014 at 11:25 PM


an update on job:
I'm shaping the neck, first with the saw, then with the belt sander and now with the rasp.
I'm taking wider than I can with the utmost care.
I would like to know: I'll clothe the neck with the same wood of the bowl. what coating thickness must have? how much thickness I must remove yet compared to the finite to take account of the coating?
or that the coating thickness has more glue?
Thanks.
some pictures to understand what I'm doing.


[file]32875[/file] [file]32877[/file]
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[*] posted on 10-15-2014 at 04:03 AM


Rib thickness should be uniform so will be the same thickness over the neck block as elsewhere. Only use as much glue as is necessary. As there is some end grain in the neck block, the surface should first be given a priming coat of diluted hide glue to seal the grain and prevent glue later being absorbed into the wood that can lead to a weak joint between the ribs and neck block.
The contour of the neck block should exactly match that of the rest of the mould.
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faggiuols
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[*] posted on 10-16-2014 at 06:19 AM


thanks Jdowning
I thought finished to a thickness of 2 mm.
This means that I have to reduce the neck of the other two millimeters compared to the finite to cover it?
about glue: I have to apply two layers? one to seal the grain and one to paste?
I understand it well?
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faggiuols
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[*] posted on 10-16-2014 at 06:21 AM


I'm finishing to smooth the neck and the neck block.
I now have to remove the coating thickness of the neck.
tomorrow I hope to be able to post pictures of the work done so far in order to be more clear in my doubts.
excuse me for the language problem.
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SamirCanada
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[*] posted on 10-16-2014 at 06:31 AM


You can cover the neck with a thin veneer, its not important that the neck cover also be 2mm like your ribs will be. but if you want to use leftover wood from the ribs that is already 2mm thick you can then shave down the neck 2mm all around as you are doing, make sure the neck joing is filed square.

I would also use a small detail saw to cut the tip of the ribs at the neck just after you glue each one, it will save you lots of work at the end.




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faggiuols
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[*] posted on 10-16-2014 at 06:47 AM


very clear.
then I prefer to remove a maximum of 1 mm and in the case to reduce the thickness of the coating to be applied.
about the final cut of the rib I think to run it before to attach the rib, after it has been measured well. I think it's easier to apply the rib.
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[*] posted on 10-19-2014 at 11:21 PM


hi all
to finish the neck I made a template of the attack on the internal block and with a chisel I modeled until a perfect match with the template.

[file]32963[/file]

[file]32965[/file]
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[*] posted on 10-19-2014 at 11:33 PM


Then I started modeling the neck, first with the belt sander and then with sandpaper until to the linearity of the piece.
obviously along all lines.
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[*] posted on 10-19-2014 at 11:38 PM


Then I corrected the vertical symmetry on the block.
easier to see the picture then to explain.

[file]32971[/file]
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[*] posted on 10-19-2014 at 11:40 PM


I later corrected the block up to the perfect symmetry and compatibility with the mold.



[file]32987[/file]
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faggiuols
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[*] posted on 10-19-2014 at 11:44 PM


the piece is not perfect yet .
the neck should be finished in the middle because still high.
instead the inner block seems too low compared to the line of the patter.
I think it is not difficult to remedy later.

I also overlaid the two pieces internal (back and front- last image) to see if there were elements of concern but I would say that the parts are compatible.

few hours of work you need to put




[file]32983[/file]

[file]32985[/file]

[file]32991[/file]
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[*] posted on 10-20-2014 at 12:35 AM


In the photo you can see the rosewood that I will use for the ribs.
is very nice but the grain is very crooked and it seems difficult to cut. I have 14 pieces and I have to do 19 ribs. therefore 1 piece should go out 2 ribs.
someone can help me figure out what is the best way to cut?

I was thinking of keeping near the ribs extracted from the same piece, but the second turned, in order to have a rib with a grain right and a rib with a grain left. if this is right, but I do not understand how must be put the first rib in the middle of the bowl, that will have the grain or right or left. in any case I lose the symmetry of the grain..




[file]32981[/file]
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[*] posted on 10-20-2014 at 09:04 AM


I realized that I did not post my project.
I remedy immediately. of course the design is done by following the text of Hankey.

I precise that it seemed to me that the book has some inaccuracies mainly on the size and location of the bridge. I could be wrong view to have understood my difficulties with English.
in any case there are small differences with respect to what is written by Hankey in my project.

the file is not easily readable.
if anyone is interested I can send it in a format heavier or even in dwg.

[file]32993[/file]
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[*] posted on 10-20-2014 at 11:07 PM


Hello everyone
reading the threads of this forum I understand that I'm missing a lot in terms of knowledge of the oud.
I would like to know where can I find information about the types of oud and most important luthiers .
could someone indicate me to a website or a book that can give me greater culture on the subject?
thanks to those who wish to respond.
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[*] posted on 10-21-2014 at 06:36 AM


If you want perfect symmetric grain as you say you can't have an uneven number of ribs, and the apex should be a joint not a rib. I don't think its a big deal once it's done because it will be hard to see an issue with symmetry even if you use the uneven number of ribs. Now for the famous makers research Nahat, Manol, karibyan, you will get ideas of bracing. There are no reliable books or resources other than the net, Oud makers are a secretive bunch :)



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[*] posted on 10-21-2014 at 11:30 PM


hello Samir
so ... I joined a secret society !!!
Wow :))


about the grain of the ribs I cut the first two ribs from the same piece.
in this position have the grain parallel.
I think that one will be turned away and joined. I have to try with all the ribs side by side the best option before assembling .
the first rib to cut it in a different way trying to reproduce a design that is in the middle between the right and left ribs. I hope to do
then I'll post the picture of the ribs before installing.

[file]33002[/file]:D
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[*] posted on 10-22-2014 at 02:48 AM


I hope you didn't cut those to final dimensions right away before bending. You need to bend them first then shave to final dimention on a long inverted plane so the edge can connect properly to the next rib.



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[*] posted on 10-22-2014 at 05:46 AM


hello Samir
are about a mm over the right fit on each side. something more if I consider the white strip between the rib and the rib.
I saw that all bend the rib before cutting it, but for me the cut seems to be easier on the straight piece and then finish the rib bent before installation.
what could be the problem with my way?
I only cut two ribs and are in time to change ways of working ...
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[*] posted on 10-22-2014 at 05:53 AM


I add that I'm not sure that I want to use the hot iron to bend the ribs.
I think that I will warm the ribs long in hot water and then put them in shape without glue stuck with elastic. after 24 hours should be perfect.
Otherwise I'll give them a shot of hot iron ...
I think that to do this I will have to bring the ribs to a maximum thickness of 2/2.2 mm (now they are at 2.8 mm.)
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[*] posted on 10-22-2014 at 07:01 AM


may I know from jdowning, or anyone else, if for the classic oud also the size of the holes to be less than 7% of the total area of the soundboard.
in my case are around 10% and I would know if I must decrease the holes.
I read this on one of the jdowning's topic.
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[*] posted on 10-22-2014 at 08:36 AM


I dont think you can bend the ribs like that... rosewood is pretty easy to bend on the hot iron.



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[*] posted on 10-22-2014 at 08:48 AM


I'll do a test and let you know! it seems to me that if the wood is very hot and humid there is no need for hot iron.
about to cut the ribs before to bend them you think there could be problems?
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[*] posted on 10-22-2014 at 09:19 AM


I cut them after I bend them. I find it much easier to fit each rib after that.
You need a band saw.

If you want to cut them before bending you should make them at least 5mm larger than final size so you can plane them and have the correct angle on the edge




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[*] posted on 10-22-2014 at 09:37 AM


I'll try to bend these first two and I'll try to mount them without glue.
if it will be complicated I will modify and enlarge the cut.
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[*] posted on 10-22-2014 at 10:17 AM


Quote: Originally posted by faggiuols  
I think that I will warm the ribs long in hot water and then put them in shape without glue stuck with elastic. after 24 hours should be perfect.

Is that possible?

I know that one can very succesfully use heat alone to bend wood, without wetting it at all, but I didn't know it would permanently assume a desired curve from soaking and drying in place alone.

It seems too that, even if it's possible to bend the wood that way, a wet rib would shrink after drying, and so change its proportions, at least slightly, including possibly its curvature, and ideally the ribs should fit exactly during assembly without one having to push them to correct the curve. Othewise stress is being built into the instrument from the start.

For that final "microfit" during assembly most people hit the ribs with a little dry heat in just the right place, and you might end up having to do the same, even if you manage to do your initial bending without it.

David
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