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Dr. Oud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1370
Registered: 12-18-2002
Location: Sacramento, CA, USA
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Mood: better than before
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Jameel
I love your go bar deck. Doc O uses one too. ... |
Actually I have abandonded my go-bar deck and made shelf braces with the scraps. I just couldn't get the control I wanted, then there's a bed to be
made for each size face and every various brace crown, etc, etc. I have been using a bar clamp tool and plan to make more so I can clamp more braces
at one swell foop. It's very easy to apply precise clamp pressure, cheap to make, and versatile too. Brace Clamp
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carpenter
Oud Junkie
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Registered: 8-30-2005
Location: Eugene OR
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Say, now
That's a great idea! (The brace clamp, not "getting rid of the go-bars") Thanks for sharing that - you & Jameel should be National
Tool-And-Technique Treasures (and I would hope it's a paying position...) As I haven't stuck my braces in yet, I'm on it. I do enough top edge-gluing
that the go-bars for alignment suit me fine there - better the devil you know, and all...but thanks again!
Meanwhile, still scraping and dreaming. The bowl's getting thinner - I can see a little light through the light wood- and more flexible; got the
horrible plastic (?) finish off the outside. And made a nice little walnut bridge. One thing at a time, I say.
A week or so work stoppage ahead, darn it; have to go pretend to make some money.
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Jameel
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Love the sock protector covering the pegbox. Great idea. 
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Dr. Oud
Oud Junkie
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Jameel
Love the sock protector covering the pegbox. Great idea.
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-and the oud stand. If you beef it up you could clamp the neck down for 2-hand ops, I'm gonna make me one!
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carpenter
Oud Junkie
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Yeah, "holding the work" had always been a bugaboo. I think - too soon old, too late smart - that if that block by the neck were an inch or so fat, a
guy could hang a clamp on it.
I used sticky-back felt for padding, but probably leather would prevent rolling so much. (It is nice, tho', using 2 hands once in a while.)
Sock-wise, the thicker and woollier the better. The world is one big scratch-and-dent waiting to happen.
I'm slowly working my way through Dr O's website - it's a goldmine in there! Also Jameel's suggestion of oudmaker.com. Whew!
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Dr. Oud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1370
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Location: Sacramento, CA, USA
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Mood: better than before
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| Quote: | Originally posted by carpenter
Yeah, "holding the work" had always been a bugaboo. ... |
Boy howdy! I can't count how many times I've lost my leg lock on a slippery oud and added to my cost to repair (it's our little secret, ok?). So
now...born of necessity, inspired by the carpenter of Eugene, it's my new, improved, fully adjustable, and clampable, Oud Grabber Thingy! Man why
didn't I think of this beefore? Oh yea, too late smart, too soon old. Ain't the web grand?
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Jameel
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Nice, Doc O! I'm going to make one right away!
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carpenter
Oud Junkie
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And about time, too!
A little progress after a life-intrusion work-stoppage. I now have the braces and rose glued in, bridge to come; placing of which caused a little
head-scratching. I came up with the attached photo; a string (any old kite string) in one outside bridge hole, up the neck and around a peg, back
down, and tied off at the other outside hole of the bridge. Sight the relationship of the strings relating to the neck, mark away, and you're home for
gluing up, no iffy centerlines required.
I'd imagine that if the strings at ahe pegbox were positioned at the proper place (like the outside notches of the nut) that this would practically
insure not screwing up the bridge placement (good for me, at least - I hate doing things twice). If I'm going horribly wrong here, somebody should
speak up soon. Otherwise, it looks good to me.
More as it happens.
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Dr. Oud
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nice! I been fumbling with straight edges, but strings the thing! Nice rose as well...
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Elie Riachi
Oud Junkie
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Mood: Gebran Tueni Lives For Ever, 12-12-05.
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Great idea Carpenter. I'm taking note of this idea. One constraint I would add, which you've probably already took into account, and that is making
sure that the distance from nut to bridge is the same on both sides. This could be accomplished by making certain that the lengths of each string
from where it is tied to bridge to where it contacts the nut are equal. Good job man.
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carpenter
Oud Junkie
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Thanks to both you and Dr Oud. It seemed to make sense to me, good to know I'm not entirely alone there. I did first take the opportunity to make a
pencil mark for the tail end of the bridge perpendicular to the centerline at the (I hope) appropriate place. I'm sure it's plenty good for my puny
purposes, but 'measure twice, cut once' is still always good advice. Twice or more...
Also, I whacked the top outline to "close enough," glued up the braces, and then trimmed to suit; block plane and really fine bandsaw blade. No
tearing out, less nervous-making than the Stanley knife I had ready...I did back up the tail end with masking tape first, just for a safety belt.
Still good, didn't gum things up.
And I'm a big fan of 3M blue tape; also a freshly sharpened scraper. Back to work...
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Musa
Oud Addict
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Registered: 12-1-2005
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Hi Carpenter,
I bought an oud produced by the same maker as yours. The label says:
Ayman Kassem, Oriental Lute Factory, Damascus, Syria; phone # 710177; Mohajrin - Bash Kateb Salamyeh; Date of Fabrication: 1989.
This is the same as yours, except for the date. The materials that its made of also seems to match yours closely, as does its appearance.
Mine was also a "wallhanger" - the neck was loose, it had cracks, and cheap olivewood pegs that made it impossible to tune. When I told the dealer
about the problems and how much it cost me just to make it playable, he refunded the $100 price and let me keep the oud.
I took this oud to an violin luthier, who put in a new walnut neck, ebony violin pegs, fixed the nut, bridge, and cracks, and lowered the string
height. He said that the bowl was so much better than the rest of the oud that he suspected that it was made by a different person. Also from the
quality of the bowl, he surmised that this maker probably also makes some good quality ouds.
I restrung the oud with La Bella Arabic Oud strings, which tremendously improved the volume and resonance, particularly in the trebles. I would very
much suggest that you use quality Arabic strings for this type of oud; the thinner Turkish ones won't give it enough volume and resonance.
The oud now has a suprisingly nice mellow tone, and continues to improve with age and playing. That just goes to show you that this kind of oud can
definitely be rescued and rehabed with very good results.
Question: Does anybody know of any good quality ouds made by Ayman Kassem?
Wishing you much success in completing your oud rehab! Hopefully, you can post a sound clip when you're finished.
Salamat,
Musa
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carpenter
Oud Junkie
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Thanks, Musa, and I'd be interested in what you track down. As an aside, I recall reading that in Germany in the '20s - '30s - when 'Stradivarius' did
a whopping amount of work, for a dead guy - that there were towns that did piecework violin making - one family would carve necks, one make rib
garlands, one tops, one for final assembly, and so on. Maybe the same thing is going on piecework with okay-grade ouds - I have no idea, just a
thought there, makes a kind of economic sense. It sure seemed like a huge difference in attention and craftsmanship between my bowl and neck, say;
almost a different person at work. One maker doing one instrument would surely bring the same outlook to the whole, seems to me.
Any other thoughts/observations, anybody? And let me know.
No real progress here - working on an edge-binding cutter...
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Dr. Oud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1370
Registered: 12-18-2002
Location: Sacramento, CA, USA
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| Quote: | Originally posted by carpenter... Maybe the same thing is going on piecework with okay-grade ouds - I have no idea, just a thought there,
makes a kind of economic sense. It sure seemed like a huge difference in attention and craftsmanship between my bowl and neck, say; almost a different
person at work. One maker doing one instrument would surely bring the same outlook to the whole, seems to me.
Any other thoughts/observations, anybody? And let me know... |
Outsourcing has been going on for quite some time in the oud world. Karibyan in the later stages of his life had his bowels produced by a european
lute factory. The cheap ouds sold as "Egyptian" are made in Pakistan in mass production mode.
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carpenter
Oud Junkie
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Coming right along
I got the ledge cut for the edge binding - charming, how the most nervous-making parts come last, eh? - and I was a wee bit hesitant about gluing up
the strips. One glue joint is about all I can handle confidently; top, strip, strip, rib; four seemed like a bit much to ask of me and keep 'em nice
and aligned. Attached, a photo of a likely reduction in panic. I whacked out some 1/2" ply to suit the outline(L & R, no symmetry here), routered
out a rabbet, gave 'em a couple good coats of wax, and voila! Tape and hope wins! Looks pretty darn good fit-wise, too, enough spring in the binding
to cover any lapses of judgement or accuracy, and there's plenty of those elsewhere to laugh at.
The downside is, the forms have pretty much outlived their one-use usefulness, unless I want to do another oud with a similar outline (not likely).
The little hole is for a machinist's clamp, just to firm up one initial end of the strip/glue sandwich, prevent any sliding around there. So I end up
with a mere two glue joints to worry about. Hooray!
More as it happens. Again, if I'm headed horribly wrong...well, a little too late this time.
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carpenter
Oud Junkie
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That went well...
Apologies for the glare. Got the beard laid in this morning, on to the fingerboard. Buying stock in blue tape...
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carpenter
Oud Junkie
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Nut time
Gettin' it whipped...picture shows my two secret nut weapons. First, a nice hide glue/nut blank/paper/hunk of wood sandwich. Gives me a bigger,
clampable handle; a nudge with a blade pops it off, a little glue scraping and away we go.
The files, sometimes called 'feather' files, are Japanese saw sharpening files. Extra skinny on the business end where it counts; one has one 'safe'
edge (no teeth), so I can go sideways without going deeper. Works for me, experience helps. The one is perfect for an .025" string.
I was reading the 'specialized tools' discussion, and it reminded me of an Irish session I went to a while ago, fellow had a carbon-fiber fiddle. Cost
a small fortune, sounded like a ham can - but he liked it. Plus, you could play underwater!
I like working wood, and I really like the quiet I get when using hand tools. Soon as I get my safety glasses and earmuffs on to use a router or
thicknesser, I'm already more tense than concentrated. (Good thing I'm not needing to really produce, huh.) I'll use 'em, but I don't much like things
that move faster than I do.
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Jameel
Oud Junkie
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Looking good, carpenter. I like your nut file setup. When I do nuts, I start the slot first with a fine saw (xacto brand), then file with a nut file
(bout the same size as yours). Then to get a larger slot, I widen then out with this tool http://www.wypo.com/prod01.htm. Works great. I also have the oud strung at this point, so I can check the fit as I go, keeping loose tension on
the strings so I can lift them from their slot if it needs work. Is it the photo, or is your pick guard really that thick?
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carpenter
Oud Junkie
Posts: 248
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Location: Eugene OR
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Around 1/32" - must be the cheap camera, or the raking light.
When I win the lottery, I'll get a full set of Stew-Mac's nut files (among other things!), and hope I live long enough to use 'em. I cut a new bone
nut for my boy's 7-string electric, and it nearly beat me into an old man. .009" E? Whew! Now, a bass I can live with...
But the oud's coming along! That's what counts. I'm heading for the tru-Oil finish, with a little French polish on the neck; more out of long habit
than good sense.
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Mike
Super Administrator
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loving this thread Jim....the oud is looking better and better...can't wait to see it finished.
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carpenter
Oud Junkie
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Strings and everything!
I'm happy! So far it's sounding mostly like I expected; a bit thin, could use a little more bottom end, but I'll wait for the top to tension up a
little. There are a few spots cosmetically where the Oud Police would have me down to the station for a chat, but generally it's looking/sounding
pretty good, for a baby.
The strings are GHS, .022 & .029 plain, .025, .029, .033 & .040 wound. The tuning suggestion on the package leads me to believe they're
Turkish tuning, and - nothing against the Turks, but is there a nice Arab-tuning basic benchmark for string gauge? So far the bridge hasn't flown up
and hit me in the face, but I could use a little hand-holding here before I bring 'em up to pitch.
And at risk of sounding like a shill for 3M (but I do admire their blue tape!), I really like their foam-back abrasives, "Superfine" and "Microfine!"
(We're more getting into 'burnishing' territory than 'sanding', but that's okay.) Machinist friend tells me the ones that say, "Made in England" are
superior; they're gray, "Micro" is green type on the back, "Super" is red. They sure don't seem to load up like other items. Forget just where I got
'em; maybe Woodcraft, here, but they should generally be out there.
Think I'll go admire it some more. Aaah!
Thanks to everybody. Dr O's book and Jameel's website were invaluable. (There may be a scratch-built one in my future, who knows?) And Mike for the
forum opportunity, of course.
And we're all storing our leftover Tru-Oil standing on the cap, right?
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Jameel
Oud Junkie
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Congratulations. It looks great. You could spend more than a few nights researching strings here. But that is definitely a Turkish set. Depending on
the scale lenght (what is it, by the way) these might work. But generally the nylons are thicker. .033" for the g and .025" for the c is what I'm
using right now (61.5cm scale). Get that sucker up to pitch and let us hear it. The Tru-oil is great, is it not? Yes, I've got my bottles up-side
down, but by the next time I use it, it will be shot.
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carpenter
Oud Junkie
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Some hemming and hawing here converting inches, but it looks like 61.5 cm, or same as. I'll poke around the site, see what The Best Oud Minds of Today
think.
Tru-Oil is great, indeed! I initially gave it the brush-and-turpentine treatment, and went back to wiping on. (Plenty of rising grain from knots and
woo-hoos, they really soaked up the oil.) I used an old T-shirt (from college, just a handful of rags now), it's reasonably lint-free. There are
plenty of places to get real 'lint-free' wipes, I'm thinking of printers' and machinists' supply...I believe I gave it five coats on the bowl. Nice
and shiny, but it'll probably glare on the TV - heh.
Now all I have to do is learn some of the repertoire. I'd hate to say I'll just play Irish fiddle tunes on it, but you know I will. At first, anyway,
just to get the lay of the land. Everything else I have is tuned in fifths, so this'll be an eye-opener. Can't wait! I listen to oud CDs every day,
some of it's bound to sink in sooner or later. Right?
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SamirCanada
Moderator
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Great work! I have been a silent observer so far but thats really great stuff you have done. Lets hear it!
for the strings I suggest you let us know what the scale lenght is and then someone will be able to guide you get the proper set. If its a arabic
scale since this was a syrian oud at first ( right? ) then a arabic set should be available. D'addario makes a commonly available (in music stores
around here) set that is suposed to be suitable for turkish and arabic oud and so far there the best strings that I have used. That turkish set could
be a little too thin for a arabic tuning but you never know... it could be worth a shot.
Good luck and all the best. Hopefully that music your listening to will sink in  and then after restauring an arabic instrument you might even start playing the music! Regardles of what you play tho all of your
efforts comands all my respect and appreciation.
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Mike
Super Administrator
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Congratulations on a job well done Jim. I really enjoyed following your project. Let's get some more pictures of the finished job though. 
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